# Schlumpf 2022 Build Questions

Does anyone here know of a way to measure the below request from my wheelbuilder?

The above chart doesn’t actually tell me what I need to know though: I need to know the distance between the centreline of the axle to the centreline of the flange.

I’m either being really stupid or this is something that only Florian can advise on?

From the drawing you can see:
For the 100mm hub the centerline of axle is half way between bearings (centers) = 50mm from left bearing
centerline of flanges is E+D+C/2 from left bearing (center)
61.5mm from left bearing
therfore the distance is 61.5-50=11.5mm
is that what you are looking for?
Maybe somebody will correct me if i am wrong.

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You are not stupid. The “Flange Diameter” (PCD) is not visible/mentioned in the drawings from Florian. Without this you cannot calculate spoke lenghts.

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I asked Florian a few days ago, he said the Flange Hole Diameter does not change at the new model. I think it is about 91mm.

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Did you ask specifically if it is 91mm?
I asked if it will be 92mm as that’s what’s my M03999 hub is. He responded “The flanges are unchanged.” But, I believe M0400+ are all 91mm, so I took his answer as “2022 hubs will be 91mm”

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My calculations showed this hub is more asymmetric compared to Brakefast.

Brakefast:___________________________68:32 = 100kgf:47kgf
2022 Hub:___________________________72:28 = 100kgf:39kgf
2022 Hub+29er rim with 2mm offset: 68:32 = 100kgf:47kgf

Are people planning on using symmetric rims? Is the large spoke tension ratio a concern?

Building the 2022 hubs with symmetrical rims to a higher tension of say, 120kgf:47kg, seems alright as far as tension goes. I’m not sure if any of the newer hubs had flange spoke hole failures though?

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This is super interesting. Thanks.

I was planning on using an asymmetrical rim Asymmetric Light Bicycle Rim & Schlumpf 2022 hub

Is there some concern here over the tension ratio. It’s all way over my head …

Yes he wrote:The Flanges are unchanged.
But the difference between 91 and 92mm diameter are about 0,2mm spokelength. So i think it does´t matter.

Ah, didn’t notice that the effect is so small. Thanks!

Not sure what spokes people might be thinking of using. But I have been toying with Sapim CX Rays and CX Sprint - I as believe using the slightly stiffer set for the lower tension side (think I have that the right way round) can help some?

Too low tension is a problem because it becomes more likely that spoke goes to 0kgf when under load.

Using a less stiff (more stretchy and thinner spoke) on the low tension side helps reduce how much tension change it sees.

However, the load still goes somewhere. Decreased change in load of the stretchy spokes results in increased change in load of the stiffer spokes. I’d assume we’d tension the high tension spokes as high as possible; But if the load changes are higher now, then we’d theoretically need to decrease the tension for everything.

I’m not sure if using stiffer spokes on the high tension side would actually help or not. Might need to do some math…My intuition is that it’ll balance out though.

Using the CX-rays all around seems to be the default choice for me, and likely good.

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Thanks again. I’m learning a lot!

I noticed in your link that the dishing off set is set as 12.5 but someone else perhaps estimated it would be 11.5.

I know I’m the newbie here to wheel building calculations but how did you arrive at the 12.5?

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Found my error ( I can’t add xD )Yes 11.5mm is correct! Thanks! (updated my post)

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I came to 11,5 like this …

Missing measurement from right flange to middle of right bearing
A:100mm - ( E:16mm+D:17mm+C:57mm ) = 10mm

From middle of left bearing to left flange
E:16+D:17mm = 33mm

Left/right flange has this “offset”…
33mm - 10mm = 23mm

To make a symmetrical build half of this value is needed
23mm / 2 = 11,5mm

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You want the stretchier spokes on the low tension side. The idea is that the rim, under load, will push in toward the hub a certain amount, which will lower the spoke tension. If you have the same spokes on each side, the low tension spokes will go slack first.

If you have lighter, stretchier spokes on the low tension side, the low tension will still be enough to stretch the spoke the similar distance as on the other (stiffer but high tension) side. So both sides will lose tension more evenly, and not go slack on one side first.

I used to use 14/15/14 gauge spokes on my mountain bike wheels on the drive side, where tension was high, and lightweight 14/17/14 spokes on the low tension side.

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So with the options set out now and live on UDC UK—

I’m curious what builds people are planning

I’m now toying with the 125mm 32h and Braus rim combo. Only hesitation is the fact that this would lock me into a 32h hub and that while I’ve seen really clear and successful tyre mounting to the Braus rim I have about 2% nerves over this being an expensive headache for tyres and tubes.

But that would be a dream carbon G36er

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I have got the 2 size hubs up on our spoke calculator, I know it is not as fancy as E-Bike.ca spoke calculator… but it does for everyone with a symmetrical rim.

I have used the CAD drawings that Florian gave me some time ago to check clearances for the sizes rather than the one he has published for retail as he has rounded the figures on it and does not show flange width’s etc. I still have to double check these with Florian to be sure that he has not changed anything from those drawings, but they seam to be right.

www.

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While we’re on the spoke calculator, I’m not sure how best it could be achieved, but is there any way that each part can be more easily identified (mostly rims)?

It can be very difficult trying to identify which rim is the correct one if they don’t actually say on them what they are. I tend to measure the ERD myself from the physical part, but I’ve observed some confusion before with people trying to build up a new wheel from old parts just using what’s on the calculator.

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Yeah that can certainly go fast, but I’d always say they don’t go exactly as fast as they might seem on paper. Meaning a 24” — doesn’t ride as fast or as efficiently as a 36”.

But for me it’s all about a slower cadence and a new type of challenge, balance feeling and muscle workout.

I would however advise the adding in of say a Nimbus Oracle aluminium frame into the budget for this, not to mention a decent rim and spokes. While I know the hub is costly, the other costs are important for the whole package to be solid, light and reliable

Let us know what you decide and your geared journey.

(I think you can tell I’m a tad obsessed! )

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