Schlumpf 2022 Hub Order Poll ⚙️📊

Unicycles and Equipment
46

I’ve personally always doubted the importance “drive side”/disk side specific lacing. I think hub shells should be rigid enough for it to not make much practical difference on which side the spokes are. Especially on something with a big diameter like Schlumpf hubs, but even on slim hubs I’d be surprised to see any significant twist through the hub shell, I think any advice on this is because of pretty theoretical considerations. (" Mixing" the orientation for rear wheels/unicycles makes sense to me however, i just doubt it matters which side goes where…)

I’d personally lace it like a rear wheel with shimano recommendations, although I also suspect that peak breaking forces will typically be bigger than peak acceleration.
I’d guess that radial lacing could probably be fine (and offer a slightly stiffer wheel), but I’m a simple guy, I’d stick to 3 cross and call it a day. I have no proof or source for it, but I’ve always considered 3 cross to be more robust against impacts like stones hitting the spokes from the side.

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47

I 100% agree - radial spoking on any wheel where the hub transmits torque is a bad idea. The spokes can’t transmit torque until they wind up some, which increases the spoke tension. Not good!

So I wouldn’t use it on any unicycle wheel, disk brake or not. Doubly extra not on an expensive hub where breaking a flange is a big problem.

I only use radial spoking for rim brake bike front wheels. My wife’s bike came with it on the non-drive side of her rim brake rear wheel, where I guess it’s OK.

48

I want to gear up a 60" hard wheel Uni with the FW option in high, with 89mm cranks. That should pretty fun…and fast!

Then I woke up from the nightmare! :flushed:

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49

Great feedback, thanks. It made me go looking for a whole bunch of topics.
Unicycle wheel rigidity can be considered in three phases:
Radial - The weight of the rider as a static load, hops, drops.
Lateral - Cornering, single foot skills, skills with the seatpost angled left or right.
Torsional - Accelerating and braking

Radial factor is doubled due to all the weight on a single wheel. Radial spoking is more effective at resisting.
Lateral - similar to a bicycle. Again, radial spoking is more effectve.
Torsional - Identical to a bicycle, but combined on one wheel. Bicycle acceleration comes 100% from the drive wheel. Bicycle braking is applied to both wheels, but the more braking applied, the more weight transfer to the front wheel, the most extreme case is what motorcyclists call a “stoppie” where the rear tire lifts slightly from the road surface, and the front wheel is doing 100% of the braking.
Radial spoking does almost nothing to resist this force. The tangential aspect of cross-3 is what provides torsional rigidity. The two considerations here is whether the large diameter heavy shell of the Schlumpf hub can be treated as a rigid fixed member, or whether it is more like a thin-shelled bicycle hub that is subject to torsional failure. If the hub is rigid, 9 leading and 9 trailing spokes may be sufficient to provide torsional rigidity. Only of the hub shell must be treated as a torquable shell does half-radial lacing become an issue. Only if the shell can be torsionally displaced between the left and right flanges will there be any increased tension on the radially laced spokes. If the hub is indeed rigid, the only increase in tension would be from lateral or radial forces, which are not statistically different than cross-laced spokes.

So: How thick is the shell of a Schlumpf hub?

50

Don’t forget that radial spoking is going to be harder on the flanges, no matter what. All the spoke tension is pulling straight out, trying to break the flange. On a 3 cross wheel, the spokes pull mostly sideways on the flanges, and the pulling direction alternates, so it almost cancels out.

Earlier Schlumpf hubs had problems with the flanges failing; they’ve been redesigned to be stronger now, but I still wouldn’t use radial spoking on them. It’s an expensive failure.

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51

The photos here should give some idea I feel perhaps.

But I took two close ups over the flanges on my 200 series (so a good bit older than newer versions but still should give you an idea)

image
image1920×2560 371 KB

This is probably the main reason I’d stick to 3X for a schlumpf regardless of tension on the new disc hubs.

Guess you could always try using different types of spokes - that was discussed here:

52

Do you have a picture of the “shell” also? the cylindrical part of the hub - the pipe between the two flanges? the walls of that can are what would cary the torsional force from the disk brake to the cross-laced spokes on a half-radial laced hub.

53

No I don’t - did you check this thread and the photos there?

54

Seeking help on how to decide which size G-uni should I build and how to be flexible for changing size.

I’m feeling more confident (commuting to work now - 6 times on KH36 -14km each way with hills / idling and walking dog on KH29) and am now keen to get a Schlumpf Hub. 100mm/ 36 hole / rotor size?

I see comments with G36
(Mind Balance - could only learn on 26’ / cant ride G36) and (Unigan - Learned to ride on a G36)
With G26, Un-igeezer has a video where he is challenging bicyclist’s for races on his G26.

Questions I have are:
Rotor - What size rotor should I get? Should I get the 180mm to cover a G26, G29, G36 Build? Is having a 203mm on a G26 ok, I’m thinking I want to have a G36 to get to work faster/more enjoyable road use.

Frame Material - I’m thinking of same frame for G29 and G36 build. G26 too?
meaning having to rebuild wheels to try each for myself, worth the hassle to save $$?
Unicycle.co.uk has a 36’ Nimbus frame with 100mm fork spacing and brake tabs on both sides dedicated to Schlumpf.
Flansberium Steel frames looks good too, I saw the G36 frame posted. joco_flans, could you please give me some idea of costing/lead time for a G36 steel frame? Delivered to Australia? also G26 frame.

Spokes - I’m totally confused, could I just get standard spokes, differing each side to accounting for the load differences?

Rims - thinking of just getting Dominator 2 rims for G26, G29, G36.

Thanks in advance for any guidance

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55

It’s great that you’re thinking of a G-uni. They are a definitely different riding experience and a challenge in a class of their own.

My earlier comments re learning on a G26er perhaps speak more about my general unicycle riding confidence. As I think had I been solely riding my 36er fixed wheel prior to getting a GUni, then a G36er would be perfectly usable.

My personal belief in that any geared wheel is learnable. We can see that evidenced. It’s more that from my “wobbles” and rides of terror, being mindful or prepared to perhaps hate it at first should be mentioned.

It’s therefore a question of picking a wheelsize within the margins of confidence and challenge / overall purpose and going for it.

I am looking forward very much to my G29er with the 2022 hub. And I suspect I’ll enjoy the faster 1:1 gear, better roll over and the fact it’ll have a 3” tubeless tyre (vs the 2.4” on my G26)

I’ve gone with a 180 rotor for this G29er wheel. But for a 36er I think that 203 might be better.

Personally I’d avoid doing this. Perhaps you could go with say a 29” frame but know you could also make a 27.5” wheel if you found 29” too much for your speed needs. But it’s likely just going to be a lot less hassle to try hard to get the right wheel that covers the use cases you want to ride with it.

Some may disagree, but I do believe Roger’s advice that with the new inboard disc hubs it isn’t advisable to build a 36” wheel with the 100mm hub and that the 125mm hub offers the better -or from how I read his view- the only safe way to build a wheel up at that size. I believe it all comes from the bracing angles being low when built with the 100mm hub.

If you go with a G36 I’d suggest just going with the Nimbus 36” frame and then one day you can always upgrade to a nice from from Jakob!

But while the recently posted steel frame is a stunner, for the significant weight of the G36 wheel build. Adding to this with a steel frame is probably not worth it. I’d go with aluminium for this kind of build.

I’ve gone with my 29er frame from Jakob and arranged it all via his Facebook page - but you could use his tag here if you want advice I suppose.

I’ve gone with Sapim CX Rays for my G29er but this is very much over kill really and probably could have used a cheaper Sapim double butted spoke. I did check if better to have different types of spoke for each side, but my wheel builder said it wasn’t needed and that he could build a great wheel with the same spoke type on both sides.

I think you go also forego “special” branded spokes and just use the ones from UDC - and for a 36er you’ll probably have to. And I think they’ll be just fine if you have a wheel builder that is skilled.

Yep I think those rims are great. I have gone with carbon fibre for the 29er as you may have read elsewhere. But this is again because I couldn’t resist seeing how this kind of thing rides - and to allow for tubeless. But the Dominator2 is a great rim and for the 36er the only safe option.

From all that you’ve stated it sounds to me like you probably need to think more about 29”/36” and skip considering the 26”.

I don’t really know and this is only for you to choose, but if you lean towards road / distance riding a G29er or G36er will be the better options.

They both will have downsides which is probably why fans of geared wheels have both (!)… They offer great experiences - but each will be quite different from each other. Some with love their G36 and have the G29er as a backup ride, or vice versa. Or just love both.

I think a G29er might be just a bit easier to learn on. I only say this as for me I needed first feel what high gear rides like before I was able to shift up. Getting on in high gear on a 36er is possible but a lot harder. However if you’re plucky you may not care about hopping on in 1:1 and trying to shift up and see how it feels or just fall off a lot before it all clicks.

It’s a leap of faith to shift up when you have no idea what it will feel like. You could get a friend to help you up in high gear, and then just sit for a bit… then have them run along side you while you get used to the sensation.

This is a long response from a GUni fan, but I’m in no way an accomplished rider. There are others here who have been riding longer and are much much better than me. So their views may be much more pro just trying it and not worrying about the falls or shock to the system I describe.

Anyway. I will wrap this up now. Hope to helps a bit!

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56

I have plans to buy a second hand G29 and at this stage I should get it in June.
If/when that happens you’ll be welcome to try it.

I tend to think as you appear to “like” 36er riding, you should have a geared 36er. But if you still are a bit unsure of 36er usage, hold off on the decision a bit longer.

For me, the mounting of a 36er is just a little too frustrating most of the time. Once I’m up and riding its pretty awesome (well, I still need to take more care for random bumps and when there’s any uphill slope that’s moderate or more I’m going to walk) but it’s the getting on that’s my bugbear and always has been. I did go from having no ability to some, but it’s still frustrating for me most of the time. Guess I have a bit of a worry of overcommitting/overshooting the freemount on a 36er and then UPDing off the front as a result. So I mostly undershoot, and of course that doesn’t work.

Ps. you managed to learn to idle a 36er in a short time. You’re simply amazing, it’s a skill I don’t have. But if/when, I’d rollback mount (cause being able to idle a 36er is an amazing skill to have, shows you are in total control and you arent relying on speed or hopping to keep you upright) and then… happy days…

57

Thanks so much mindbalance,
that really clarifies a lot of things for me, although I won’t hold you responsible for the decisions I make.
Your “legwork” for your new G-uni has been “obsessive” …in a good way…haha

Hi Gockie, Thanks for the offer of trying your “up and coming” G29. Good work in getting one. Hope all will be well with it. Which series schlumpf hub is it?…I only ask because it seems each series has it’s “quirks” that just need to be accounted for.

Btw, I can’t idle the KH36, just KH29

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58

The number is in the 300 range. As to idling on a 36er…. Cool stuff. I top out on doing it on a basic 24” uni. Nothing larger (suppose I need a lot more practice).

59

Pictures give good indication that the shell is a thinwall aluminum cylinder that has been rolled to contain the sun gear. If it was a machined fixture there might have been enough structure to balance torsion between the two spoke flanges. I’ll be sticking with tradition and cross-lacing both sides.

UDC delivered the Hatchet today. Transitioning from a 24 to a 29 is a bit of a learning curve. No pavement rash yet, no scratches on the seat bumpers.

Ordered a Maxxis Hookworm to replace the knobby.

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60

If you can already easily ride a 36er, I’d say go with that size. That’s how I have learned on my Schlumpf hub after one year of daily commuting on my fixed 36er. It took some time but I was then happy to have a G36.
For reference, I have ridden and commuted a G29 for a few months and found it really slow compared to a G36 - can’t easily stay at 30 km/h, needs to pedal fast to achieve a great speed whereas a G36 is much easier to go fast with. 36er are however a bit harder to handle but that’s OK with some training :slight_smile:

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61

Thanks Maxence, I’m starting to lean towards a G36. I tried riding my KH29 to work and found it a tiresome effort. I even fitted the aero bars but could not feel comfortable. I switched back to KH36 and am enjoying the commute with aero bars commute includes two hills (300m long and approx 12% incline) also am nailing rolling mounts 9/10 times.

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62

Take one look at this: https://www.unicycle.co.uk/unicycle-parts/hubs-bearings/schlumpf-geared-unicycle-hub.html and you will see that it is a machined part (and has always been one, btw.) Pretty decent wall thickness all around (since there are parts bolted to it).

I do however agree with the decision to do cross lacing on both sides.

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63

Can also look at the cross section here. Assuming this old generation is similar.

64

So I’m not super often on the forums but I do end up seeing posts like those :stuck_out_tongue: And I’m here to support #Steelisreal. Steel isn’t super heavy, while it is heavier than alloy, it’s not a brick VS a feather. Get this out of your brains hahaha. The 36er full build with the steel frame is lighter than a stock KH36! Yes it has a carbon rim, and some other fancy stuff, but the difference is pretty big (I dont have the numbers on hand at the moment sorry).

That steel frame I made is 877g, that is powder coated with bearing caps, bolts, intergrated seatclamp and double brake tab.

The Qu-ax RGB, the lightest, is 640g, Kh36 is 810g, Nimbus is 765g.

The difference isn’t huge already, add a single bolt clamp (Salsa Lip Lock at 34g) to that and the difference isn’t that big at all.

I’d be really curious to try it as steel should make it a stiff and responsive ride. Too bad I build in Canada and @Unikev lives in UK hahaha.

Steel and alloy ride differently, for bikes I’m always going to choose steel over alloy. For unis I still have to try it out and feel it. I’ve been stuck on my old alloy frame that doesn’t want to break…

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65

What thickness steel are you using or is it some fancy tube that changes thickness throughout?