Thank you for the clarification!
Quick question, what did you settle on for your frame?
I’m now looking to do the same as you, either a P frame or looking at building a 29" gravel penny Farthings around my carbon 29" wheel.
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Ngl, a gravel penny sounds sick. I actually looked at building a penny as well but on a 50” wheel instead.
I’m pretty positive I’ll be going with a v-frame just for the look of it, but I’m unsure when I’m going to build it.
The only thing that might get funky is trying to make the Penny farthing sized right and look kind of proportional… like with the 50” wheels the seat is only like 2 inches from the tire itself, so it might take some brainstorming to make it look proportional if that’s what you’re even going for.
Do you have any concept plans drawn up of your potential Penny farthing build?
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BISYMPLE has a design I like, so something like this with adjustable saddle height but also doing a 29/20 instead of a 36/24, the Hopley 29" isn’t super monstrous from what I’ve seen but in def going to have to come up with some drawings and designs for it and do some reading on the physics involved
Or something like a pframe but having the 20" wheel in the front to give some stability and let met lean forward with some support
Practically it might just end up being a P frame for reduced weight and cost.
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Reviving the thread because my build came in.
But an alternative for touring, handlebar and cargo cage mounts. This whole build is under 10lbs/4.5kg, and even with a gravel tire it would still be a reasonable weight. If it’s too squirly you can always just add weight to the frame to increase stability.
I have long legs so this build works very well for me, shorter riders may have a harder time but I think it’s doable for most people who don’t ride 100/75mm on a 700c lol.
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If you want/need to increase the stability add weight to the wheel rather then the frame. A heavier wheel is more stable and less twitchy.
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Here’s my early days work on a P-frame or…. should I call it the B-frame… in fact I’ve currently dubbed it The Flans Flag Frame 
And here’s my childish drawing for you all to have a good laugh at!
I literally did this in 10 mins so better ideas will come up - more to scale as that wheel is meant to be a 700c but it looks more 36er ish.
Here’s the linking to the rim and tyre debate that’s been annoying picking Simon’s brain and past work in this space:
I think my soul is saying get the WG44 as I learned from reading the French forum I can ask LB to drill spoke holes off centre to get a faux asymmetrical rim set up and my spoke tensions on a 32h Schlumpf hub would be 100%/53% which is more acceptable for me.
WG44 Disc Carbon Gravel Rim - Light Bicycle
WG44 Disc Carbon Gravel Rim - Light Bicycle
WG44 - 700c carbon ultra-wide gravel rims of 30 wide int 38 wide ext 44 deep. For (tubeless) tires of 32c-70c. Made for big elevation and off-road pursuits. Light as 385g.
- It’s a gravel rim
- 30mm inside width
- Hybrid Hooks
- 700c
- Tyres 38-70c - so in other words “fat” wide gravel
- They even quote decently high PSI for 38c
So the boxes ticked by the WG44 pretty cover all I want as I’m after a tough, stiff and gravel focused touring wheel where I’m not super focused on it being the lightest wheel.
I also think any downsides of the rims aero nature - will be minimal as the bags and my body will be the biggest wind catch that can’t be taken away. And perhaps (I will have to see) I’ll get more power transfer from the somewhat deep rim.
I have also asked Jakob to what design he’d come up with if this was his P/B frame as I’m willing to entertain the idea of getting bags made. However being the copy cat I am I’d prefer to use the bags from the P frame used again by toutestbon 
There is a possibility I may merge the childish design you see above with this fantastic frame from @Aurelien
In some kind of Flag + MiniFlag type imbalanced affair 
As for tyres - I’m likely to go with what appears to be tried and tested:
- Schwalbe G-One Allround 2.25
But in follow up place would be:
- Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge 700x55c
- Goodyear Connector 700x50c
In short - a plan and a childish scribble are emerging and I’m excited to see what this project brings in terms of building fun and future trips!
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This design could really give a wondeful uni.
However, I see one major downside to it (and P-frames). It has a huge wind catching area in the front part of the uni. This tend to increase the effects of side wind. I have discovered that when the front bag of my uni got damaged (the zip has got a problem), and I removed it. Since this day, the uni has been way easier to ride with side wind, thanks to the back wind area.
One other thing I really enjoy with my frame is that the saddle is not directly linked to the hub, which allows a really slight suspension, making it really comfortable on not perfectly flat grounds.
In my opinion, the twin V-frame is a really good touring design thanks to those two facts. However, it is quite annoying to bring in a car, train or plane, and hard to manoeuver at slow speeds.
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I agree with Aurelien about wind sensitivity.
The P-frame provides a rigid handlebar independent of the saddle and storage space up front. But I tend to think that you shouldn’t think too big for the surface area of the pannier.
I’m very happy with mine, but a smaller pannier might be more interesting for that reason. It’s not the volume that’s most interesting here. What’s interesting is the fact that you can fit the dense, heavy stuff you want to carry (water, tools…).
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Wow. Really interesting point. Less is more. In fact I think aesthetically speaking a slimline set up will look nicer too. More refined and not daunting to ride either.
My only gripe with this whole project is how annoyed I am with the lack of length in my legs. It would look so much better if I was a bit taller
I think that when uni-touring (and bike-packing in general), you should always take as little as possible. Having a huge volume available will ultimately make you take more stuff, so more weight, and less manoeuvrability.
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Back to the designing here:
@toutestbon - once again hope you won’t mind my picking your brains on this area, but are there any elements of your frame design that you’d add or change now you’ve used it/had it built up?
I’m thinking along the lines of where to get bosses put for possible bolt on items etc.
I am trying to think through where I’d likely find this kind of thing useful and future proof the frame for options that may end up being super useful down the line - but it is fundamentally just guess work on what it will be like in real life.
Is the bag you have shown here - attached via a rack / cage that goes on via bosses?
(And incidentally what bag is that?)
I am 99% going to kit my build out with Restrap’s Race line of bags as they seem very light weight, a good balance between capacity and minimalism - where at a pinch I’ll be able to take a small tent and light weight camping gear should I wish to.
With Restrap’s custom frame bag design service the main bag can be designed to fit the frame - which makes the designing of the frame easier as it is being made according to my height and general desires, rather than to fit one bag.
I’m very happy with it and if I had to do it all over again, I’d hardly change the design of the frame.
I was fine with building the frame from an existing bag. It suited my needs perfectly.
The improvements I would make :
- the down tube would be straight and would be attached to the fork (like the frame Jakob recently made for Maxence). This would allow the central triangle to be a little lower (about 2cm).
- A pump tool kit in the head tube with a cap at the bottom. Mine’s open, it’s a steel part that’s rusted.
I still think that a version with a smaller frame pack (such as the apidura 2.5L full frame pack) would be more appropriate for most people (less wind resistance and closer handlebars).
The bag you are showing in the photo is a BBB Stack Pack 4L Fork Bag. I quickly replaced it with a Blackburn Outpost Elite Cargo 6.5L. It’s muuuuch better: it has loops to prevent the straps from moving, the straps are rugged so they don’t slip and it’s slightly bulkier.
It seems to me that I sometimes put a 3-strap at the top when the bag was heavily loaded.
The bosses are on the horizontal tube (I think there are 3 but I only use 2) and the down tube (2).
I didn’t put any on the seat tube because I knew I was going to use a saddlebag.
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Pictures will follow later on. By the way, keep mind it is a bit more expensive to build a frame like mine as the builder has to weld a second frame instead of a single bar.
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Oh I can totally appreciate that, and if I was your height I’d just copy this…
But as I’m not and none of the bags I see make for what I’d call a good looking P-frame - opting for a design that I will get a bag made for seems like it’ll be easier / better in this situation.
Restrap offer water bladder set ups in their custom designs so it’ll likely end up being on par with Apidura’s approach.
That’s a nifty thought. Is this not possible on your frame due to the tube sizing? As in it would need to be a fatter headtube to accommodate such a tool / stowage of mini pump?
I’ll be silent not but can’t wait to see a final build share of your beauty!
Is the main benefit of this kind of design structural rigidity or space or both? Or something I’ve not considered?
I’m set for a very exciting summer to wait and see my frame being built / shipped before Unicon 21 happens!
I think it would have been more interesting to do this when the frame was being built. It’s necessary to thread the head tube to install the module. Now that the head tube is a bit rusty, I don’t know if it’s as easy to thread it and it’s not as interesting to protect it from rust.
The model I’ve seen is compatible with an aluminium fork and doesn’t mention steel… I suppose it should be possible with steel… unless the problem is rust haha
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Cool thanks 
Watching that item’s set up install video seems to show the treading/tapping happening to the what they term the steering tube which I think is the additional tube that in Jakob’s frames gets put down into the front section “headtube” - so I’d presume that tube could be set up as aluminium negating rust and being easier to tap.
Surely if I’ve understood this alright - you’d be able to swap out your rusted steel one for aluminium?
I’ve just seen that they’ve made a V2 which doesn’t require any threading:
Maybe I should give it a try 
No, it’s the frame that’s made of steel (the green part), the tube to which the stem is mount is made of titanium.
EDIT : the pump isn’t integrated, so I got a bit excited. That said, it’s still a good solution for carrying tools and protecting the head tube.
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Sorry to be a bit pedantic but I’m not sure I fully grasp the parts used here -
Red arrow is pointing to what in the bike world would be the front fork steerer tube right?
Are you using a titanium or steel tube here?
I ask as the tapping video from One Up shows the work being down on the top of the steerer tube - which is I think the equivalent of your silver tube (red arrow).
It does seem like the threaded One Up EDC system can accommodate more stuff then the threadless one - but the latter is probably simpler -
I guess I’ll have to hope you’ll test that so I can just copy this from you also 
No, in the bike world, the front fork steerer tube corresponds to the green part just above. The tube you’re pointing at is the titanium tube that corresponds to the bike’s fork itself. Oh yes, it’s the titanium tube that should have been threaded, not the frame, sorry. 
If I had 2 wheels they would have to rotate inside each other.
I don’t know if I’ll try it straight away, the V2 needs a total length of 185 to 265 mm and with my current setting, I’ve only 180mm.
All I have to do is raise the (titanium) tube by 5mm… 
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