MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

I just got the lasted issue of Kaskade the European juggling magazine. There is an article by Arne Tilgen on the German MUni and Trials Weekend that took place this past Easter weekend.

It sounds like everyone had a good time and that there was some real talent there. If his comment is to be believed though, the competitions were cancelled due to the presence of Kris Holm who, “everyone agreed…was unbeatable.” Kris is this true or is the English translation not quite right?

There was also a TV crew there, but no details were provided.

Apparently username wendino whose real name is Roland and who occasionally posts here, but has lots of posts over in the German unicycling forum was the organizer of the event. There’s some discussion over in the German forum. Hmm, and there’s a web page here.

If I’m not mistaken this is the first time that MUni and trials have been the focus of a unicycling article in Kaskade which is traditionally more focused on circus arts. Arne Tilgen is the unicycling writer/editor of Kaskade so it is natural that the articles will reflect his (current) interests. My own feelings are that as long as this aspect doesn’t dominate the unicycling coverage in Kaskade, it’s OK. And on the other hand, the presence of this article in a magazine focused on circus serves to connect MUni/trials unicycling to its origins.

I’d tell you to run out to your newsstand and pick up a copy, but you can’t. As always, for those with an interest in juggling and circus arts, Kaskade at $22/year for a US subscription can’t be beat. Particularly with the IJA’s JUGGLE being at best in limbo at the moment.

Ride 'til it hurts,
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ

JJuggle

And on the other hand, the presence of this article in a magazine focused on circus serves to connect MUni/trials unicycling to its origins.

I feel the need to put this up for dispute.

My experience of the circus communities attitude to Muni as it developed was one of ridicule. The mountain bike community has been far more respectful.

I know that a fair few of us who are into Muni originally got into it from juggling/freestyle background, but I’m sure there’s an equal number who didn’t.

I would argue that the true origin of Muni and the related big wheel/touring uni was the early penny farthing pioneers who created the first one wheelers by removing the back one.

Dave,

Thank you. The sentence of mine you quote was deliberately constructed for just this debate. I omitted what I though were clearly the mountain bike influences on MUni which I think are undeniable. :slight_smile:

However, you surprised me by going back further to the penny-farthing. I think, it is fair to say that without the removal of the small wheel from the p-f is the origin, but not that it is necessarily the direct influence. Much happened in-between, particularly to reducing of the size of the wheel on unicycles making them more manageable for more uses. But it is also the case that the large wheel as it was in the late 19th century was used for trick riding and circus like demonstrations; it may even have been included in circuses at times. If you can get ahold of Sebastian Hoeher’s Unicycling from beginner to expert you will see pictures of this in the history section.

I think, in short, that you’re skipping a huge stage in the development of MUni by going all the way back to unicyclings’ origin. It’s as if, in my opinion, you went back to Bach as the direct origin of the Blues; a lot happened in between that was a more direct influence.

I’m truly sorry to hear that the circus community has been disparaging about MUni. I find this unfortunate. In some sense it is tit-for-tat given the attitude of some here with regard to unicycling within the circus. Still neither attitude is good for the activity of unicycling or the cohesiveness of the community of unicyclists.

Emma and I are off for our Saturday morning ride, so I’ll leave it at that for now. There’s a lot more to this discussion.

Cheers,
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ

I’m not sure why people continually get this wrong. It is clear that unicycling originated long before bicycles, penny farthings, juggling, and the like. Moreover, the unicycle predates roads, so that it is certain that “off-road” unicycling was the original and truest form of the sport. The informative illustrated history serial entitled “B.C.” can be consulted for further information.

reality check.

in my experience the only people who seek to isolate unicycling from circus are unicyclists.
all this “were not clowns” rubbish come from the minds of insecure people.

everybody else seems to realy like unicyclists.
go to any big juggling convention and you’ll see that jugglers like unicyclists.
although i’ve never been at a big mountain bike event i’ve heard many stories about unicyclists having a great time and being made very welcome by mtb folks.
personaly i get verry well treated when i go to the skate park.
and i practice at juggling clubs at least three times a week

no, circus people don’t hate unicyclists

Wow, this sentence really sucks!

I meant to say (something like): “It is true that without the removal of the small wheel from the p-f you don’t have the unicycle, but that is not the immediate influence on the development of MUni.”

As for the above, I paraphrase Dave (GILD) in this thread and ask, why does someone always have to take a perfectly fine serious discussion and make it into a joke? I certainly have never done that. :wink:

And as for the above, though it might be expressed a bit harshly, I have to agree.

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ

harsh?
i know, the spelling and punctuation was terrible. :wink:

Re: MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

Oh yeah, this issue also has a page on Vova and Olga Galchenko.

Not so bad really, just a missing apostrophe from the word “we’re”. :wink: The above however, should be “the spelling and punctuation were terrible.” :smiley:

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ

evilewan reality check.

in my experience the only people who seek to isolate unicycling from circus are unicyclists.
all this “were not clowns” rubbish come from the minds of insecure people.

everybody else seems to realy like unicyclists.
go to any big juggling convention and you’ll see that jugglers like unicyclists.
although i’ve never been at a big mountain bike event i’ve heard many stories about unicyclists having a great time and being made very welcome by mtb folks.
personaly i get verry well treated when i go to the skate park.
and i practice at juggling clubs at least three times a week

no, circus people don’t hate unicyclists

The ‘we’re not clowns’ issue is actually a seperate matter concerning the perception of people in the street towards unicyclists. This subject has been well covered in other threads.

I never said that jugglers hated unicyclists, but that a proportion of them ridiculed the emerging sport of Muni.

Similarily they ridiculed poi and the other spinning arts in their developing stages.

I’m not at this point complaining about the fact that they tend to ridicule new things, simply saying that I don’t see why we should connect the origins of Muni with this community, when they not only did nothing to aid in its development but actually ridiculed it.

If I saw a post implying that the origins of poi lie within the juggling/circus community I would similarly disagree and put forward the facts as I see them.

The facts are that the growth and origins of poi are not down to the juggling/circus community; it is down to the spinners who have put in hours of work to develop these arts.

The origins of Muni are not down to the juggling circus community; it is down to the unicyclists who put in the hours developing new techniques/equipment and refusing to be deterred by the ridicule of others.

Surely the origins of Muni lie with people like Kris Holm and others like him, how many of them juggle?

JJuggle

If you can get ahold of Sebastian Hoeher’s Unicycling from beginner to expert you will see pictures of this in the history section.

I have a copy of that book, the pictures that stand out for me are the ones of the guys with massive wheeled, seatless unis lined up for racing. I guess I thought of it as a more suitable origin because they clearly had an attitude of courage and inventiveness; and, after all, these were the first unicycles.

To me Muni is closer the that era than the intervening one of 20" unis being used primarily to entertain audiences. Muni is more about pushing your limits than putting on a show.


JJuggle

I’m truly sorry to hear that the circus community has been disparaging about MUni. I find this unfortunate. In some sense it is tit-for-tat given the attitude of some here with regard to unicycling within the circus. Still neither attitude is good for the activity of unicycling or the cohesiveness of the community of unicyclists.

I’m a little unclear about this, I don’t think any unicyclists would object to unicyclists in circuses. What they do sometimes object to is the attitude of the public that unicyclists are clowns/entertainers.

Also the juggling community is fairly seperate from the circus community, I would imagine that most circus people are far too busy to give too hoots abiut what unicyclists think of them.

As I said to evilewan, this is a seperate and well discussed issue in other threads.

I would like to thank you for your open minded response to my initial quibble.

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ

Re: MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

evilewan <evilewan.qgv0p@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

> reality check.
> everybody else seems to realy like unicyclists.
> go to any big juggling convention and you’ll see that jugglers like
> unicyclists.

Um, I go to a big juggling fest and I get the impression that everyone likes
unicyclists, they just don’t want us riding our unicycles in the gym, or
around the campus. They like to see us uni dance at the chelidh and try out
danceing stages on a uni, they laugh when we fall off riding across the camp
gound and they put up it if we organsie unicycle workshops out side the
main halls. In my experience the British Juggling convention has become less
and less welcoming to unicyclists, its almost like there are two parallel
events going on at times.

Sarah


Union of UK Unicyclists
By and for UK riders

Now you all have piqued my curiosity. I’m sure almost everyone here has heard someone singing circus music as they go by, or been called a clown, etc. And I do respect the difference between clowning and MUni. My question is, how many people here actually do any clowning? I’m a semi-professional clown and a professional balloon twister; in fact, I paid for my new Muni with money I earned through balloon twisting. Anyone else an actual clown?
I’m not ashamed to admit who I am. I was voted class clown in High School and most likely to run off and join the circus, and I’m okay with that.

Re: Re: MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

Well there’s the crux of the biscuit… :sunglasses:

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 21:50:22 -0500, JJuggle <JJuggle.qfnqc@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

>There was also a TV crew there, but no details were provided.

The lack of details may have been on purpose. I’ve heard that the TV crew people were quite rude and tried to take control over the event to the benefit of their shooting.

Klaas Bil

Re: Re: MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

i’ver only been going to juggling conventions for about a year and a half, so i can’t tell if the climate has changed, but i’ve always felt welcomed at all times

if the climate has changed then i think thats our fault for having seperate unicycle conventions.
and always disapearing offsite at juggling conventions for days at a time.

the problem with riding unicycles in halls is almost always to do with the people who own the hall, and black tyres and platform pedals are no floors best friend.

i’d say that people falling off unicycles is a universaly amusing phenomenon, we certainly have to live with that wherever we go.
it would be paranoia to sugestthat juggler were maliciuosly laughing at us (theve all fallen of a unicycle at least once)

just as long as unicyclists still attend the big juggling festivals then everything will be fine,

mind you though theres a diveres array of groups at these things,

acrobats for example are much more insular than unicyclsts are.
and fire swinging folks are a diferent group too.
not to mention the yoyo people. (was yoyo ever a circus act?)

juggling conventions are more about the things people do have in common than the diferences.

its the skills obsesion thing that people have in common.
some ball jugglers perform and some don’t, but they still swap tricks.

being able to ride a unicycle “a bit” is pretty much one of the standard skills in the circus fraternety, there will always be unicycles sold in juggling shops.
however being able to juggle isn’t a particularly valued skill in unicycle circles, but i’m glad that unicycle.com sells juggling equipment

i’m not keen on the idea of unicycling being “made into” a sport
the thing that draw me to it is the chalenge of learning skills, a creative thing, not a competition or test of athletic ability.
when i see unicyclist do tricks i like to say “wow! thats amazing” not “who’s number one this season”

i’m sure that even the gnarlyest muni riders here can apreciate the skill involved in riding a unicycle on a slack rope, or juggling too many balls (4+) on a unicycle

besides, if it becomes a mainstream sport i’ll not get so many jobs performing (that my hidden adgenda, by the way)

whose to said the unicycle “gods” didn’t come to unicycle through circus?

and those whov’e met david pozantner (mr profile hub)will apreciate that he’s a verry good juggler.

i haven’t met kris or gergory peck and i don’t know if they do any other skills. i’d be verry suprised if kris hasn’t learned to juggle on a unicycle.
and john foss, youve performed in circuses havent you?

unicycling is evolving seperatly from juggling but it dosent mean we should forget our heritage ( i didn’t say origins :wink: )

Re: Re: Re: MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

Kris Holm jumped onto a bandwagon that was already rolling. Granted, he jumped all the way to the top of the bandwagon, on the first try, but the party was started long before he joined in and whooped it up. Kris, like many of us, rode dirt in isolation for years. I started riding on dirt in 1979. But the credit should go not to who did it first, but to who brought it to others; who showed the way.

As to whether Kris and other “origin” MUni people can juggle, the question should probably be whether or not they are “jugglers.” The basics of juggling are a piece of cake, and I have no doubt that Kris, George Peck, and most any accomplished unicyclist can juggle three balls. But neither Kris nor George (nor I) came into unicycling through juggling.

I never thought, or heard of the “circus community” looking down on MUni. This is a new idea to me, and I don’t know that I believe it. First I suppose one would have to define what they mean by circus community. Does that mean hobbyist practioners of circus arts? That would include jugglers, acrobats, other unicyclists, and the types of people you might see at a juggling convention. I call this group the “circus arts community.” The “circus community” are the people who do circus for a living. In my limited opinion, they as a group have no attitude toward MUni at all. It is completely irrelevant to them.

The “circus arts community,” on the other hand, can be completely different. hobbyists who are entrenched in certain disciplines, including “traditional” unicycling, may look with disdain on “new” activities. Snobs. People may notice the amount of press and engineering/business attention MUni gets in relation to other forms of unicycling. Jealous. I think some others, in the unicycling community, think the fact that they don’t live near mountains means they can’t have the fun we have. Nonsense. I grew up in flat lower Michigan. Plenty of trails there.

So where does MUni come from? To what do we owe our heritage? It’s hard to say. Yes, the original unicyclists mostly rode on dirt. That has to be the “original” origin. But that was over 100 years ago, and a lot happened in between.

Unicycling started out as a few crackpots riding penny-farthing front wheels. This was followed by variety artistis practicing their butts off, and earning a living with amazing shows. These performers got the most notice for unicycling. Meanwhile, the original crackpots organized at least a handful of races in the 1880s.

But I’ve heard basically nothing of any “sport” unicycling from the 1980s to the 1930s. Meanwhile, unicycling continued to develop in front of audiences, in vaudeville and (probably later) in the circus. Unicycles are better suited to the stage, because they’re not real big and can be hard to see in the large environment of a tent circus. But nevertheless, that’s where the vast majority of the world’s people saw unicycles.

Then in the second half of the 1900s, unicycles started to be commercially made and available, so people could ride them “for fun.” In the US, I don’t think this went very far until Schwinn introduced theirs in 1967. Around this time, USA founder Bill Jenack started communicating with more and more unicycle people. The USA (Unicycling Society of America) was formed in 1973. Before that, he had a looser organization called the Unicyclists Association of America. These groups brought people together, and with the newsletter, which started in 1974, there was finally a much better way for people to get information about unicycling.

We have been doing unicycling as a “sport” in the USA since 1971. In Germany I know organized competitions go back to at least the 1930s. Any physical activity can be a sport. Some people will be interested in competing, while others will not. People shouldn’t complain if others are doing what they enjoy. Sport is also good for building awareness of, and increased participation in, an activity. No one is going to make you do it. you can golf for fun, or enter a tournament. Two separate ways to enjoy the same activity.

But the vast majority of unicyclists in the world are still just riding up and down the street for fun, fitness, and the many benefits of learning to ride one. They can leave it at that, or take it further.

But what about MUni? I’m going to have to puff up my chest here, and claim part ownership on this one. I wrote the article “UMX” that appeared in the USA Newsletter in 1982, was a fan of riding off road before that. Other pioneers either motivated people, or organized events to bring MUni to greater numbers. George Peck, Thierry Bouche, Duncan Castling (and others in UK but not sure in what order; definitely Roger Davies among them).

And then there’s Kris Holm, our superstar. I don’t think Kris or I would ever cancel competitions because we know he would win them. Case in point; he did not win everything he entered at Moab. Maybe if his competitor (Karl Thompson) had also ridden the Slickrock Trail that day it would have turned out different, but that’s beside the point. Kris would still want people to have fun and challenge themselves.

Publicity for MUni also has a lot to do with its growth. Here I must credit Michael Finkel, author of the 1997 Atlantic Monthly article:
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/97apr/uni.htm
That one has triggered a number of other stories, even now, and motivated countless people to try riding off road. Dan Heaton and Adam Rysnar created the Universe video, the first “watchable,” entertaining video of MUni and Trials. Kris Holm, Sean White, and the various other video producers in the North Shore area also spread visions of MUni to thousands of mountain bike and extreme sports people everywhere. There’s not a bike shop person I can think of who hasn’t seen at least a clip of Kris Holm.

I’m getting out of time. From where springs MUni? I think it has to be a combination of many factors, mountain biking a huge one among them. Mountain biking is fun. Being out on trails, enjoying nature, is fun. It was only natural for us unicyclists to follow.

If we think of the early promoters of MUni and where they came from, that must be part of it. I learned to ride in my neighborhood, and ventured out on to dirt trails from the beginning. I was “raised” in the traditional world of USA and club unicycling, but dirt riding was always there as well. Moving to CA was the big catalyst to get me thinking big about MUni.

I don’t know Duncan Castling and Roger Davies’ unicycling origins, but Duncan is the guy who came up with the word “muni.”

George Peck started with a crap unicycle in the early 80s, and I think it was only natural for him to venture out onto rough terrain because there was so much of it around him, and he likes to do things that are difficult and unusual.

Kris learned to ride around 1985, and again I think living in Vancouver made it much easier for him to find himself riding the trails. Before he ever met any of us, he had already learned to handle rough terrain at least ast good as, or already better than any other unicyclist we knew.

Trials, as a subset of MUni, has much clearer origins. Though we held what we were calling an “Observed Trials” event at the first MUni Weekend Kris came to ('98), he’s the guy who came up with the competition rules (two whole sets!), built many of the early man-made Trials courses, and was the biggest promoter of the activity. Dan and Adam helped, by showing us what it was in Universe. Kris deserves the lion’s share of the credit on that one. I think my idea to do a Trials event in '98 was inspired by Bruce Bundy and David Poznanter, who had attended some bike Trials events.

Enough for now…

Re: Re: Re: MUni/Trials article in Kaskade

It’s easy to understand the perceptions of juggling convention organizers if they see you coming to their event and using their facilities, but basically doing all your own activities. I have often heard the comment “You guys need to set up your own festivals.”

If you go to a juggling convention and hardly even juggle, it makes you kind of a “fringe” player. Though juggling encompasses a wide variety of disciplines, I think most of us would agree that unicycling is on the edge of all that. Plus, our space requirements are different, and sometimes in conflict with juggling.

I am guilty of being “unicycle guy” at juggling conventions, and hardly ever juggling. I have helped develop a sub-group of unicyclists at the Lodi Juggling Festival. Do I feel guilty? No. Instead, I give back. I always do at least one unicycling workshop, often perform in their public show, and otherwise contribute to the event. This legitimizes our unicycling. Plus the fact that we’re outside and don’t have to be in each others’ way helps.

True. Got to respect the hosts’ needs and limitations. Often there is not enough room to ride in the gym at a juggling event, which sucks when it’s raining or cold outside. Or if the “gym” is carpeted, like it was in Las Vegas in 1995 :angry:

If unicyclists are getting in the way of people, running over props or otherwise causing problems, you can see how pressures can develop in those areas.

I don’t think it’s fair (or accurate) to judge people in groups like that, though I don’t know many acrobats. People are people. As to yo-yos, I can’t imagine a yo-yo act in a tent circus, but the skill is definitely more on-topic with juggling than unicycling is. You got a problem with yo-yos? :frowning:

That sums it up very nicely. Regardless of what we do, I think that’s the binding force at something like a juggling convention!

Sorry, it’s been a sport for years. More than 30 in the US. Most people never heard of it, however, and even if it goes mainstream it shouldn’t affect your ability to get jobs for many years to come. It may motivate you to improve what you do with it, however. Hopefully that’s not a bad thing.

Hmmm. It depends on your definition of “gods.” The most famous unicyclists from the old days were basically all performers. That’s how we know of them. There was no “hobby community” for others, so they couldn’t even find each other. But most of today’s “top” unicyclists are not professional entertainers (widening it from just “circus”).

Gregory Peck, of course, was very famous as an actor, but not in the circus. :smiley: Both Kris and George Peck are well known to play musical instruments. I’m sure George has a number of other interesting hobbies, and Kris is also a climber. But circus? Definitely not for either of them.

I have definitely performed in circuses, but it was not my origin. My interest in unicycling drove me to become a performer, so I could unicycle more. I did thousands of show with the National Circus Project (founded by JeanPaul Jenack), and traveld around the country and to other countries to be paid to unicycle (among other things, including tons of juggling).

So though circus is part of my background, I started as a neighborhood rider. I wanted to learn to ride based on seeing unicycles in a parade, and wanting to master the obviously challenging skill. Upon learning to ride, at age 17, I saw it as an activity that would be very good for me health-wise, so I decided to keep doing it. It was only after that when I found the local club, and later got involved with the USA Inc. My first paid performance was years after that.

Am I the only person who got into juggling & stuff through unicycling?

Admittedly I used to juggle a little when I was small, but I only learnt to do difficult stuff like 5 balls recently after meeting unicycle people who could do it.

I’ve now got into poi and fire staff through juggling, because I went to just jugglers in London (club night / juggling workshop) a few times and played with other people’s toys.

I don’t think unicycling is a sport in the UK really, at BUC, there are probably a few hundred unicyclists, of whom 4 or 5 compete in freestyle and there aren’t any track races either. It’s much more a thing people do for a laugh.

Joe

No, I did. I think I learned to juggle in 1982, from the Ken Benge book, which was available for sale through the USA. Learning to juggle from a book sucks. Video would of course be much better. :slight_smile:

Later I went to juggling conventions (though I mostly unicycled), and became a juggling teacher. Yes, the fact is, the primary thing we taught with the National Circus Project was juggling. That skill relates to so many other things in life, is so accessible, and has so many side benefits (visual tracking, left/right awareness, forced focus on a task, etc.) it was the obvious one. We also did lots of spinning plate and devil stick. Additional skills were not part of the “standard” package. We only taught unicycling at places that owned their own unicycles (or bought some). What’s the point of giving someone 5 minutes to try, when that only leaving them thinking it’s more impossible than they thought before?

Nathan Hoover might say he got into unicycling through juggling. I’m not sure of his exact path, but he was definitely a heavy duty juggler, going to clubs (and running one?) before learning to ride. He’s still big into juggling, but I think unicycling has “damaged” him somewhat in that area. Now at the juggling conventions where I see him, he wavers between the mainstream and unicycle groups.