It might be time for tubeless... Or maybe not?

Unicycles and Equipment
1

Okay, so last week, I accidentally tore the valve stem off of my existing tube, trying to get it unplugged with slime. Ended up saving the day by driving out to a nearby Wal-Mart, and buying a ‘thorn resistant’ heavy duty Bell 26er tube. My Muni is a 29er, but after stretching, the tube worked fine, and we had a great ride.

Today I went riding again, out at the same place (notorious for goat-heads), and my thorn resistant tube, got punctured by a thorn. Didn’t have the time to try and patch the tube, and ended up sealing the hole with a dab of rubber cement from my patch kit. Worked like a charm, and it’s still holding air.

The problem is, it’s still holding air :roll_eyes: . I got home, and removed the tube to patch it, but now I can’t find the puncture to repair it. I threw the tube back in and pumped it up, but I know I still have a hole in it somewhere that could start leaking any time.

So what I want to know, is whether or not tubeless is worth it. There’ll be a high initial cost (new tire, tubeless kit combined with poor unemployed high school student) that’ll put fixing my brake on hold. I guess what I’m trying to find out, is what are the cons to tubeless?

Then, if I do go tubeless, what set up is best for a 47mm wide Dominator2 rim? Would one of the stans kits work? Or would ghetto be better? Or would the ‘6" section of tube with valve stem/strapping tape or tubeless rim tape’ set up be best?

I know that if going tubeless was cheaper, and I knew it’d stand up to multiple thorn punctures, I’d probably do it.

Or should I quit complaining and stick with tubes? :thinking:

Sorry if I’m asking some questions that are really more personal preference than anything, just thinking aloud…

2

I’ve done tubeless in my MTBs and cross bkes for years. Started tubeless because of goatheads. Plus at least on bkes they ride better. I’ve decided to switch my new KH 36er to tubeless, waiting for a little washer from my LBS to reduce the schaeder to presta. I’ve always done Stans, but my LBS is hot on Cafe au Lait. I say go for it.

3

Reasons to go tubeless:

Fewer flats
Fewer slow leaks
Problems with spiny plants, goatheads, etc…
Reduced weight without reducing reliability

Reasons NOT to go tubeless:

You change tires often
You don’t like fiddling with gear
You have a rim, tire, or both that are not suitable for tubeless

Things that will make going tubeless easier:

Read a lot of how to’s before starting
Don’t think you can shortcut the process; you can’t
Clean the rim and tire with rubbing alcohol and let it dry well
Having a tire and rim that “naturally seal” well withought sealant
Make sure and add sealant on a regular basis, every six months or sooner for those who live in drier climes.

The cheapest way to go tubeless is to use a ghetto tubeless kit, an old tube which will serve as the rim liner and valve, two bottles of Stans or similar sealant, follow directions on the how to videos (of which there are numerous), and go ride.

Total cost for going ghetto tubeless is the cost of sealant.

For a non ghetto tubeless, due to the width of your rim (42mm) and being that it’s a Shraeder valve, you will need to use a Stans valve ($7) and some Stans rim tape ($5-10). Alternatively you can use something like gorilla tape (don’t use duct tape!!) but longevity is certainly less than with tubeless tape.

Worst case scenario, you hate it, it won’t seal, whatever, you can just go back to tubes, the Stans will wash out with water. on my unis with tubes, I replace tubes about one every six months to a year (flats, broken valves, etc…), but on my tubeless I add a bottle of sealant once every six months and go ride. The sealant is cheaper, esp if you buy a big bottle :smiley:

A piece of advice: Be prepared to hit up your LBS or a tire repair shop to help you seat the tire before adding sealant.

4

Ben, are ghetto set ups as good as regular ones do you think? I could use the tube I have now and try it, looking at sealant prices, that’s doable. I think you said so, but the Hans Dampf and Dominator2 rim will both seal well correct?

I’m not to worried about seating my beads, my dad has an air compressor that’ll blow up to 175 PSI or something.

I was finally able to find the leak in my current tube and patch it. Seems to be holding air so far, so it’s not like I need to decide instantaneously.

Man, and on top of it all I broke a spoke (no biggie, just need to pick some up tomorrow)… Just one of those days I guess. :roll_eyes:

5

I have had no problems with ghetto tubeless and it’s a pretty easy setup. Especially if your LBS does not have stans. I used a ghetto tubeless setup with a KH26 rim and ardent 2.4 tire.

6

Converted my 26 and 29 to tubeless this weekend. I have Hans Dampf tires on both, and I used Gorilla tape for the rim. The 26 I did my self. The tire is pretty snug on the rim, and I got it to inflate with my floor pump. For some reason the 29er is a bit looser fit. Took it to my LBS and they hit it with the air compressor. It leaked out of the seam in the rim for a bit then sealed up. Have not been on a proper ride yet, but I like the feel riding them around the driveway. The 36 is next on my list if these 2 work out.

8

I like the ghetto tubeless the best

9

Yeah, what he said :roll_eyes:

@ Killian,

The ghetto tubeless is fine, though a valve and tape would be better and not cost more than $15 plus sealant, with the advantage being that tape lasts longer, is reusable, and it weighs less. Also, if you cut up a good tube, then you need to factor in the cost of a tube; ie use an old tube.

The HD and D2 is a good combo :slight_smile:

10

So when you say valve and tape, are you meaning something like your setup with using the automotive stem and rim tape? I’m just not crazy about drilling my rim, though could probably do it.

Even if I used a new tube (my current one has a bunch of slime crap in it) it’d be cheaper than the commercially available rim strips.

11

I bought a single valve from my LBS for $7, this works on the D2, I tried it out.

The alternative is to get an automotive styled valve and drill your rim, orr, order some of these puppies and get the best of both worlds: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=94761

These are not available in the USA for some unknown reason, but they fit a bike rim without drilling, whereas an auto styled valve will require some hole enlargement.

I may order some of these so I can stay Schrader on all my wheels.

If I order some, I can get extras, just let me know…

12

Those second ones look slick. Gonna have to think it over for a while though. I gotta lot of stuff I’m trying to buy right now, and this is just another thing, so I need to prioritize. First is a brake, then tubeless, so it’ll have to be a bit, but we’ll get there. Since my tube’s holding air (knock on wood) I’m not in too big of a rush.

13

Quick question, any of you guys heard of flat attack sealant? Read some stuff on their sealant for tube, and it’s supposedly better than slime by far. Just curious.

Also may try a tire liner first…

15

That’s a really good point, something to consider there.

17

I have used it, it is a bit better than slime but way worse than stans. i like the stuff we have mixed up for the local fat bikes that run tubeless its half stans half slime with glitter mixed in works like a charm

18

First ride on my 29er guni tubeless. I did a four mile trail ride that is pretty rocky. Things started out good. I like the feel of the tubeless tire. I did notice a few small burps hitting some rocks in high gear. Then the tire started hissing. I paniced at first, but it was an actual puncture, and it sealed after a bit. I pumped some more air in and resumed my ride. 50 yards from the finish of my ride, I went over a pretty rocky section fast in high gear, and BAM! the tire blew off of the rim. Looks like back to tubes for the 29. I am not surprised since the tire goes on the rim very easily. I still have hope that my 26 guni will work tubeless. It is much harder to get that tire on the rim, and I was able to seat it with my floor pump. The 29 required an air compressor to get it to seat.

19

I’d tend to agree with the essence of Andy’s post: try tubeless and if it works, then great, if not, then back to tubes.

Tubes work, they are cheap and easy to replace, but they flat easy in certain situations. Some tire/rim combos are better than others, but you don’t really know until you try. A tight tire tends to be better than one that’s loose, same goes for rims that have a more aggressive bead hook being better than those with a weak bead hook.

I have not had a tire blow off the rim while riding, tubed or tubeless, except for the time I bought a NIB Gazz Jr that had a bad bead. Tubeless sealant is not glue, it won’t hold the tire onto the rim, nor will it seal rips or gashes. Some folks do use a “gasket sealer” to glue the tire to the rim which can prevent tires from coming off the rim.

I think one of the charms of riding tubeless is doing it because you can, sorta like experimenting with crank lengths.

Don’t be afraid to try tubeless, it’s not that messy, it’s all water based stuff, cleans up easy.

Think of it as cheap entertainment :slight_smile:

20

Hey Ben (or anyone), I’m looking at the HD right now, does it matter that much if I go with the Trailstar vs. the Pacestar?

Also, there aren’t any problems with these even though the D2 is drilled for Schrader? Would I need to get an adapter for my compressor?

Or could I even use something like this?

http://www.artscyclery.com/Stans_No_Tubes_Rim_Strip/descpage-STRSWV.html?crumb=MTBRUBBER

Sorry, I’m looking at places where I can order everything to cut down on shipping…

21

Okay, sorry for that last post, I answered all my own questions.

I can get the HD, sealant, stans mountain presta valves, valve adapters, and 25mm tape, locally for a good price, so I thinks that’s what I’ll be doing Saturday.

My parental unit says I can dip into my (measly) savings for the cash so I think I’m good to go.

This is exciting… :smiley:

22

I have the Pacestar, and I am very happy with the tire. It has plenty of grip, and shows no sign of wear so far. The Trailstar is supposed to be softer, so I assume it might wear faster (?). Plus, the Pacestar is plenty grippy.

BTW, I have the HD on my 29 and 26, and it is soooo much better than my old Stout.

23

Ugh…why use Presta valves? One of the first things I’ve done to most of my bikes is drill out the rim for Schraeder valves - you can always find a Schraeder pump. So far, all of my unis have come with Schraeder valves.

I bought some of these to do a tubeless conversion:

But I haven’t gotten around to it. Pretty valve stems though, with a tapered seal that should work well on most rims

Sam