It’s probably a good time to start thinking about bringing industry back to our countries. We really have brought this on ourselves over the course of the last 40 years by outsourcing everything to the Far East. Now try to undo that… From experience, things that took very long to do also take very long to undo, and trying to undo it quickly is always painful, a bit like a car crash into a brick wall vs gradual braking. I worry we will never get out of this vicious circle because most governments have 4-5 years to prove their worth, which isn’t long enough. It also would require all Western businesses and manufacturers to be on the same page about this. It takes one manufacturer to start getting their stuff cheaper from some Asian country to spoil the whole barrel. Covid has been a bit of a wake-up call, but I’m not sure we’ve taken heed.
So what you’re saying is Western manufacturing good, all other manufacturing bad?
Yeah I’m going to umm, leave this thread now.
No, I’m not saying that. Manufacturing and quality can be good anywhere. What I’m saying is Western economies rely too heavily on the Far East to make things that really we could and should be making ourselves to eliminate the need to ship stuff around the world, significantly shorten delivery times and enable ourselves to deal with situations like the one we are going through right now. To say that China can’t make quality products would be complete BS. What happens is we get mostly the cheap stuff because when you get to a certain level of quality it’s actually cheaper to make it locally, but we often don’t have the manufacturing infrastructure to make it, so we have no choice but to import the cheap stuff, and then people think that’s all China can make.
Or maybe we should try and trade whenever possible with countries that don’t view us as enemies or have reprehensible records concerning human rights? Many far eastern countries make products that are considered the pinnacle of quality and are also thriving democracies. Still others have cheap labor and view us as allies or potential allies. I’ll gladly pay a little more to know my products aren’t being produced by slaves or financing a malevolent regime that views my country as a target.
Luckily most unicycle bits are made in Taiwan which is a democratic country.
That’s just wishful thinking. The reality is different. People buy from the cheapest place. No one would be willing to pay three times as much for a unicycle if all Parts are made in Europe.
But how long will it stay like this? Xi Jinping might have a close look on Putins actions. Let’s hope he doesn’t see this as a role model.
talking of highend, this might be true, but from a quantitative point of view, no.
I haven’t noticed that it costs me 3 times as much to order from Mad4One. Now granted not every part on a M41 is made in Europe. I’m sure the tubes and tires are made somewhere else and perhaps some of the other parts are too, but by and large this is a product that is made in Europe and the price is only marginally higher than others. UDC products are largely made in Taiwan, which is also a developed country with a democratic government and a relatively high standard of living.
I also make most of my unicycles myself. However, that does not mean that the individual components also come from Switzerland. There are simply no manufacturers for this. We have very strict laws on this in Switzerland. Just because I assemble the unicycle here and lace it up doesn’t mean it’s “Made in Switzerland”. You’d be shocked at what the products would cost if everything really came from here. Incidentally, no rubber trees grow here. You always need a good network. You can of course check the dependencies. I am surprised, for example, that there is no such industry in Africa.
mad4one components are mostly made in Taiwan, source: Marco of mad4one. They do wheel builds and anodize some components in Italy, but I think that’s about it. They also keep stock and provide very customer service which the factory in Taiwan doesn’t do. I was talking to Marco of mad4one a couple of days ago he said recently they had started sourcing some parts from European suppliers to get around the shortages, but many parts are still only available from Taiwan. He said prices are high now mainly because shipping costs 400% the usual price.
Switzerland is very expensive, but there are cheaper countries in Europe where a lot of this stuff could be made. Even if the raw materials are imported because we don’t have the natural resources locally (e.g. rubber, aluminium), the processing could be done here. Where I live, Spain, this doesn’t happen because the government makes it extremely hard for small and medium sized manufacturers to exist, and now many companies that used to make their own stuff have closed their manufacturing facilities and get it from China.
Why are you so insistent that manufacturing in Europe is better than manufacturing in China or Taiwan?
Manufacturing in Europe is not “bringing industry back to our countries”, it’s “moving industry to a different country”.
As the raw materials are still going to have to be shipped around the world from wherever they’re mined (hint, it’s typically not in Europe), it wouldn’t make much of a difference around product availability. In all likelihood it would get worse as the suppliers would no doubt sell to local companies at a better price and more readily than to foreigners.
The more spread out raw materials and manufactured parts gets, the more expensive finished products would get too, as you’re paying more shipping, and more taxes as these items move around before being assembled.
But that’s exactly how it starts: This country is too expensive, but there are cheaper countries. Most of the time, wages, social and working conditions are worse in the cheaper countries. At the end we end up back in China.
I don’t know if (cheap) bicycle rims are really still made in Europe. If so, then rather expensive high end. There is e.g. Ryde/ Rigida or Exal in Europe. I suspect they have their rims made in China. There is also DT Swiss (yes, a Swiss company). I don’t think they still make rims here in Switzerland. If so, then at most the high-end products. It won’t be much different with the tires. As far as I know, Continental and Schwalbe (still) manufacture certain high-end products in Europe, but very few. And I’m also not sure if this information is still correct. I would most likely see the opportunity for expensive forks, hubs and cranks in Europe. The majority of the unicycles sold are inexpensive entry-level unicycles. It will never be possible to come even close to these prices.
This is what I think a lot of people miss. Very few unicycles that are manufactured are genuinely high end.
A KH36, Oracle 36", or a Nightrider 36" are not high end unicycles.
They come with basic brakes, saddles with plastic bases, no carbon in sight, basic pedals, basic spokes, basic aluminium profile rims etc. etc.
They’re not low end, but when you compare our products to genuine high end bikes, they’re a world away.
If you buy a high end bike, it’s not going to come with basic plastic pedals. It’s not going to come with one of the cheapest hydraulic brakes that Shimano makes. It’s not going to come with a saddle that is fundamentally the same as the ones on the entry level bikes.
It’s hard to compare unicycles and bicycles. It’s a different market with much smaller volumes. The unicycles mentioned are top products in the unicycle sector. Of course you can also use carbon etc., but in the end it’s all about finding buyers for it. It is up to everyone to build a real high-end product from individual parts. In my previous post I meant the really cheap beginner unicycles with square hubs. It is unthinkable to produce something like this in Europe at a similar price. Not even in the cheapest country
I’ve got nothing against Taiwan and will happily buy products made there. Same thing for products made in Japan, Korea or India, although in the case of India I might have my doubts as to the quality. China on the other hand is an aggressive tyranny with a knack for producing junk products, (anyone remember a certain carbon rim from a big name maker?). That doesn’t mean I won’t buy a Chinese product in all cases as many times they are the only game in town, but I will gladly pay 50% more to have a product that was made in Japan, Germany or the US. I’ve just been burned too many times by cut rate Chinese products that didn’t function as advertised and I would rather not support their economy.
“assuming no surprises” implies that there is a common expectation of what will likely happen in the next 1.5 years. No surprises would then mean no deviation from that expectation. Since no-one knows where the world is heading in that timeframe, “no surprises” has no meaning. Or else I would ask: what would surprise you?
No new covid variants and no consequences stemming from the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict. I guess things aren’t exactly looking up…
When I wrote “What would surprise you?”, you wrote:
I would also be surprised if there are no new covid-19 variants before mid-2023.
I would be even more surprised if there are no consequences in the next 1,5 year from the war in Ukraine.
So if I understand you correctly, we agree here that these things most likely WILL cause disturbances, preventing us from getting back to the pre-2020 normal.
But in your post that spurred my question, you wrote
“I’m guessing mid-2023 max or even sooner, assuming no surprises”,
as if “no surprises” would mean the opposite to you, that is “no disturbances from covid or the Ukraine conflict”.