I have had UPDs at 25kph before and if I can’t run out, I still manage to get some strides in before falling. I had one really fast UPD on my geared 36 when I was taking a sharp turn too fast, and I flew off the front, landed on my left foot then started running, got off about two more strides and fell into a snow bank. I came out of it with no injuries at all.
I have also “run out” at the same speed on flats, where i take a few running steps after coming off the front and then end up falling.
I don’t think that I could do this at 30kph, but I still don’t think the injuries would be as severe as if handlebars got in the way.
On our way to El Tour de Tucson, Max Taint and I chatted with an airline pilot who had also been an air force pilot, flying both helicopters and planes. Asked about the difference he said “planes want to fly, so they’re designed to keep doing that even something goes wrong; helicopters are designed to survive a crash.” I realized that as unicyclists, we were flying helicopters.
I’ve had a meandering-speed UPD on a setup with aero bars, and it was a quick 90-degree ride around the circumference of my wheel and into the ground. Smack. I could tell that if the forces were much greater I easily could have broken my lower leg, or something somewhere between my hand and my trunk. I decided that this was not the way to go.
Gizmo may be confident enough in his abilities and risk-tolerant enough to justify the potential for things to go wrong even if they weren’t planned that way. I don’t see any way that this is what will make sense for the majority of riders though. I’m modifying my aero bar setup into something that won’t kill me if, God forbid, I actually UPD again.
Oh, and I’ve had a UPD up over 30kph on a setup that had no risk of getting tied up in, unsuccessfully tried to run it out, and did a superman-slide scraping up my knees, elbows, and taking a chunk out of a thumb nail. It didn’t sideline me for as long as the slow UPD with the aero bars.
I think we’ve established that Gizmo is in favor of riding without the fear of crashing. You gotta break some eggs if you want to make an omlet. Maybe that phrase doesn’t make sense here, but the point is, I’m kinda hungry right now.
I think it’s true that a good design for riding doesn’t have to be good for crashing. We can go back and forth on this issue because A) you’re going to crash more on a unicycle than on a bicycle, it’s just the nature of the beast, but at the same time B) those crashes are less catastrophic than a bike crash could be. I see this as one of the advantages we have over bikes.
Now that frame and handle designs are putting us in more of a bicycling position, we’re inheriting some of those more dangerous elements. I don’t think that’s any reason to put a halt to all the innovation that’s been going on, especially in this thread, but as a member of the unicycling community who tends to crash a lot (1st shift, Day 1 RTL), I think safety is something that should be kept in mind. Maybe just refrain from sharp edges on handle bars (first T7 anyone?).
Yesterday I was out distance riding and, riding in an outstretched position, literally got blown off the side of the road by a strong gusty sidewind. After getting back on I figured out that if I rode upright I still got blown sideways but I wasn’t being forced to turn because my side profile wasn’t so far forward to catch the wind and torque me around. Lesson learned for me was that there are some situations when I’d rather be sitting upright.
Anyone else with longer handles had this happen to them?
yes i know this problem, i have had some problems with sideways wind on my long handlebars
the only thing i could do about it was as you did sitting more upright to correct it.
Either made here by craft bike frame builders or off-shore, I think this is where the distance unicycle frame is headed. Bring on the aluminum V-frame Kris!
Also, I think that I’m of the school of thought “to build towards comfort while riding”, not “rider egress while crashing”. I do try to build so that equipment can survive UPD’s though. . .
B
offcourse v-frames would be a good step forwords to a bether riding position
but for the real deal i think we should look more at the geometrie of racing bikes just like in the second picture
This happened to me once riding with a tail wind. I took a right turn and that changed the wind to a side wind and I was literally blown off. I was riding with a medium handle then that looked like this: Our Cycles (last update 8/27/2012) - nhoover
I remember it was a real surprise. I haven’t yet tried a bike-position style handle, but look forward to sometime soon. I wish Ken was bringing his on the India tour.
What we know is that Gizmo (and others) are very experienced road riders, so if they decide to risk using wide handlebars one can accept that they understand the risks.
But I’m not going to do it.
In thousands of miles of riding, I’ve only had one bad crash on my Coker. But my clavicle will never be the same again as a result (it’s not even the same shape). Another crash on that side, even a tuck-and-roll on that side, might break it again and I’d rather not make it easier for that to happen. My personal policy on shoelaces is much stricter than it was on that day, but other things could still cause a forward UPD where I’d rather be able to run out of it, even if it’s only partway out (if faster than running speed).
I’ve had that happen with an upright riding position and no handle. All it takes is a strong wind. Once upon a time, back when I lived on Long Island, I took a ride down the Jones Beach Bike Path with Ken Fuchs. We were both on old-school big wheels, 45" and 40". The bike path ends at a gigantic parking lot, where we had to cross at an angle to the wind. It was so strong, we were unable to ride straight in the direction we wanted. We had to tack like little sailboats to get across the parking lot without flailing and wasting much energy. Adding a handle to that situation would just make you more like a weather vane.
Being attached to the ground at only one point, unicyclists will be more subject to strong winds than multi-wheeled vehicles.
Does anybody use or consider the behind the back handle bars? It looks like it would help to get some weight off the seat.
Here’s Lar’s Clausen riding across America back in 2002.
that handlebar would indeed help you take some weight off the seat but,
we are not only looking for a handlebar to take some weight of but alsow a bether riding posistion.
it’s a bit of a secret, but we’re working on a frame like this, just brought last week two 29"kh frames to my aluminium-welder, i guess i’ll get it back next week, the setup will be with a kh/schlumpf hub and different handle bars.
why i’m not using 36"er? just to expensive (i don’t own a 36"er, i have the schlumpf 29", the kh/schlumpf hub and munis of course…), maybe someone will sponsor me with this 36" project i’ll do it… …just send me a kh 36"er…
Is the result of this thread likely to be that someone gets seriously hurt? Just because there is nobody to stop you doing something doesn’t make it a good idea. Somersaulting down the road tangled in a large uni or getting blown into passing traffic will probably have permanent consequences.
These machines might be okay on a track, but are they really suitable to use on the road in variable weather conditions?
i had once a upd with my T-setup, wasn’t very fun, but also not that bad, it wason a bit of a uphill, with maybe 20km/h, my leg hit the handlebar of course with my shin…
anyway, i’m getting ready for mv V-frame (the brakes are just for other holding positions…):
I bought a new bicycle a few days ago (Surly Long Haul Trucker) and took it for a short 30 mile ride. It felt great.
I immediately hopped on my geared 36 with a T7 and my first thoughts were:
-Wow, it feels cool to ride upright and be high up off the ground. I never really noticed how high of a riding position it was since I was used to it, but after riding for a few hours on the bicycle it felt a lot different.
-The Geared 36 isn’t thaaat much slower than my bicycle
-The uni seat feels more comfy than the bike seat.
-It is nice not straining my neck or back.
I am not used to the hard bicycle seat yet, so that would explain the freeride saddle feeling more comfy, but I don’t know…I don’t think I would want to be as stretched out as a bicycle while unicycling. Part of the fun is that it is a different feeling. Certainly I think that the T7 is not perfect, but I think that some of these set ups have the handles way too far out in the front. Then again…I have yet to try it out.
I wonder if a sort of “middle of the road” approach might be some sort of UPD “safe” V-frame (i.e. careful on the wide handlebar set-up) and investigate more options to improve existing geared unicycle hub technology. I think the KH/Schlumpf hub could just be the begining, if we could have more selection of fixed-gears that would be awesome. I don’t know how it would be possible, but if one could build a simular interal gear hub, but allow the user to be able to swap out a choice of internal cogs much like one does with a fixed gear bicycle. In this way one could chose gearing based on circumstances; higher gearing for flat, lower for hilly etc… Again I don’t know if this is possible but it’s just a thought and that’s kind of what this thread is about right? The real problem is getting to the “innards” w/o taking apart your wheel! Hmmm?
…just send me a kh 36"er…
