RAAM on unis?

General
21

I agree with Chuck on some points. We shouldn’t just go in there just for the sake of doing it. It would be more fun if there were two or three unicycle teams competing against each other. That is, if the RAAM organisers would allow a unicycle division, so that we can have our own little RAAM race. That would be a feat in itself, with the time cut-offs extended by a few days to allow for the fact that it’s a unicycle race. Not a unicycle vs bike race.

It would still be a feat of endurance and a competitive effort, just with a different division/category. Like their recumbant division.

That would be more interesting to me than just entering something for the sake of completing it. Anyone can ride across America…if you give them long enough to do it :stuck_out_tongue:

22

Ck. the estimated cost per racer or team.

23

I think this is a cool idea, certainly close enough to being possible that its worth considering seriously. Geared 36ers, obviously, the wheel of choice. I don’t think going over the mountains will be a big deal. We don’t loose much speed on the uphills compared with bikes…its the down hills actually where they really loose us. Less so when you put some psycho on a geared 36 with short cranks.

I agree that having 2 teams would be better than 1, although I think doing it just to do it would still be fun.

Seems like a team of 8 would be the way to go, given that the daily mileage is more than double what we did in RTL. I could see the team breaking into 2 groups of 4 that rotate 12hr shifts. This would allow one team to be primarily nocturnal, and would let both teams get more sleep - important because I think unicyclists would have more trouble riding on little sleep than a bicyclist. One team could drive ahead and even check into a hotel for a solid sleep. I think we’d still have to break the ride into ~10k sprints to keep the speed up.

I’ll volunteer for the night squad.

ro

24

Key is the 36-48 hr. trial right now. You and I are about the same size - we could share my guni for the trial unless you build yours pretty quick. I just had a f**king awesome ride tonight! Feelin’ fast!!

25

BTW, six might be an option too, even though there are no bike categories w/that #. Six is one van-full in a pinch - eight is a crowd. Still, considering all the motor homes sitting around these days, we should be able to borrow or rent one pretty easily/cheaply.

26

I’m also the same size as you and Roland, in fact I used Ro’s uni a couple times in RTL.

But, I’ve got a KH/Schlumpf hub on order, and I’m seriously considering building it into a new KH36 frame.

Dan - when you say build it pretty quick, why is that? Is there some cutoff date by which you want to be done with the 36-48 hour trial?

27

team uni = hard/doable

Rubic here. I was one half of the Gran Fondo Fixies
team last month, the first fixed-gear two-man team to
complete RAAM. I’ve also done some long distance rides
on my Coker (Clarksville Sunrise, Jack & Back MS-150,
3 Gap, etc.), so I’m probably at an intersection of
interests and experience to answer some questions.

Up until this year, RAAM teams were given 240 hours
(10 days) to complete the race. It was shortened to
216 hours (9 days), so Kevin and I lobbied Terry Z.
to permit us to ride a fixed-gear RAAM within the
original 240 hour time limit. At that time we did
not think we’d be capable of sustaining a 15.35 mph
average, so Terry allowed us to start with the solo
riders. Our finish time was much better than we
expected: 8d 4h 21m.

Keep in mind that your average speed must account for
riding in traffic, stop signs, traffic lights, train
crossings, construction … I had to stop once for the
filming of “Terminator 4” across the Rio Grande (about
15 miles outside of Taos, NM). We also had two flooded
bridges (Missouri, Ohio) which caused us to be re-routed,
though we got a 45 minute time credit. Basically it’s
useful to remember that your speed isn’t your computer
speed, rather the actual ground you cover, stops and all.

A large part of our success was in recruiting a very
skilled crew. We had 3 vehicles and 10 crew members.
Even with a full compliment of experienced crew (90%
were ultracyclists) working 12 hours on/off, each
member averaged about 4 hours sleep per day. Kevin
and I usually got 3 short naps (60-90 minutes) per 24
hour period. Even with a larger team (4-8 unicyclists),
you won’t get much more sleep due to the stress and
constant forward movement of the race.

Given a good crew, I think a strong 4, 6, or 8 person
uni team could start with the female soloists and
complete RAAM within 312 hours (13 days). It’s
important to start organizing early. We started our
team preparation in November and included a couple
of crew training rides (575 miles, 1034 miles), so
our crew could experience what it would be like under
race conditions.

If I can be of any assistance, please don’t hesitate
to post follow-up queries. Also, let me know if you’ll
need an 8th rider (with some RAAM experience!).

Jeff Bauer
Gran Fondo Fixies
http://www.kaisercycling.com

28

Do you have any idea how much the whole thing cost your team - from the sound of the setup you had it seems like it’d be an awful lot of money?

Obviously there’s the entrance fee of $1000 / rider to start with, but 3 vehicles + fuel, food etc. sounds like you’re talking an awful lot of money? Did you have large amounts of sponsorship?

Joe

29

costs

Joe,

Our costs were about $20K for RAAM, including fuel, lodging, meals, etc. We did not use an RV. Crew shifts were 12 hours, and we would book 3 rooms and use them twice – each crew shift change. A uni RAAM team would incur higher costs for lodging, as they’ll be out on the course longer (12-13 days vs. 8 days).

One truism about RAAM: The expense of the race is an important issue, but if you get everything else put together the finances usually work out. You’ll have 4-8 people available to assist in raising funds, not including crew members. Once you have an honest commitment from riders and crew, you can work together to eliminate the financial hurdles. We sold team jerseys, hosted a ride, and held a donor dinner to help raise funds.

Jeff

30

Well I’ve watched this documentary now and it follows a relatively ordinary (i.e. he’s not an elite athlete) British guy who rode it last year solo. It sure looks hard and the support team is very important but it does look possible for the right team(s) of unicyclists. It sure won’t be cheap though.

31

I think that this sounds great. I have never even been in the same room as a 36er let alone taken one for a ride, but as far a raising awareness of unis it sounds great. I think that some teams should be set up. Good luck and I hope that this is not the last time that I hear about this.

32

On the topic of a RAAM simulation ride there is an official RAAM qualifier ride coming up in Northern NY the weekend of 12-14 September. It consists of a beautiful and challenging 136 mile loop that you can do 1, 2, 3 or 4 times. Soloists do the full 4 laps (540 miles) to qualify for the RAAM. I have contacted the race oganizer and he agreed that a Uni team could ride it relay-style and swap riders whenever they wanted.

We rode part of this course in our RTL practice ride back in April, which you can consult for photos, video, and elevation profiles. It is a great area to ride in.

I am not yet 100% sure that I’ve got that weekend open, but might. There are a few other fast guni riders within a few hours drive that might be able to join us (calling David Stone, Vince LeMay, Steveyo (guni on order), Perry (guni on order)) so it seems possible that we could put together a solid “simulation”. Best would be 6 riders so we could break it up into 12hr shifts and try to do the full 4 laps. That would roughly be 2 consecutive days of roughly RTL length rides, although with more elevation, and more night riding.

Anyone else interested?

ro

33

Yep. I’m game, though depending on interested parties, I think we should leave a door open to alternative trial routes.

34

I am not too close, but close enough to be interested in joining. I would hopefully have a geared 36 by then. Sounds like fun!

35

I’m interested . . . geared hub on order :smiley:

–
Geoff

36

NY RAAM Qualifier

I have to add some thoughts about the NY RAAM qualifier:

Having done the RTL practice ride through part of this course earlier in the year, and knowing the rest of the course relatively well from years of traveling back and forth between Burlington, VT and Lake Placid I think this would be a perfect course to show what unicycles are capable of, especially with gunis. There might even be a chance of a uni team finishing near (I wouldn’t want to jinx us by saying “ahead of”) the slower individuals.

The hills are big. Bigger than RTL. But mostly they’re gentle uphill and steep downhill with plenty of rolling terrain in between. We would get to maximize climbing skills (which of course we would be able to share through the team) and still do OK speed-wise on the downhills. Those endless uphill grinds will take their toll on the individual bicycle riders by the end of second day.

Also, the letter to Dan from Terry of RAAM said:
“Get together 4 or 6 or 8 racers and go for 36-48 hours on reasonably hilly terrain.”
This would definitely count as hilly! I’ve driven across the US many times (in a former work life) and although I wasn’t thinking from the perspective of a unicycle back then, there’s no doubt this course in the Adirondaks is MUCH hillier than the average terrain across the country…
We would do much better relative to a bicycle on this course than we would pedaling our brains out while baking in the sun across Nevada!

I like the idea of splitting it into 2 teams of 3, but maybe something other than 12/12 hours so the night can be shared between teams somehow…

At this point I’m not so sure about the RAAM, but this qualifier sounds like fun, in a sick kind of way :smiley:

37

We don’t nec. need the qualifying ride to make us look blisteringly fast, but we do need to make 13ish mph over the trial.

One thing that I noticed about my 36 guni is that gradient is key for choosing whether to shift or not - to shift means to die speed-wise. Pushing the virtual 54 uphill is no mean task. Pushing it into the wind and a slight + gradient can even be a struggle.

I’m sure that the terrain upstate is a good test - but I fear we won’t make the ave mph if the terrain is too good of a test.

My sense of the geared 36 is that it hauls on descents, is excellent on the flats but is just good on moderate inclines. On the steeps, it’s a liability.

38

I think averaging 13mph on that course might be tough. Although, maybe with a guni and more than a few months experience I might change my mind :slight_smile:

It seemed to me that Terry from RAAM wasn’t necessarily saying we need to fit perfectly in their current time constraint structure. I got the impression we might be able to start with the solo riders if it looked like we could finish within their time cut? I think he realizes we’re something quite different and need to be treated as such. Their solo time limit wouldn’t be as long as it is if they weren’t already willing to accommodate some of the slower classes.
I think that would be 11.5 mph. That might not be too far off reality once you factor in 2 weeks of fatigue, injuries, night riding, stop signs and traffic lights.

Roland, what was the average you and Vince did that training day? Wasn’t it just over 12mph?

39

Geoff, I thought you were quiting the uni after RTL :wink: Guni giving you a new challenge?

Back in April Vince and I, riding a 2 man team over 65 miles of this course, averaged 12.9 mph on ungeared 36ers with 125 cranks. Extra training since then and a geared hub should make me faster now. There was one hill that was a real killer on the the way up on the 36ers, but would be no problem on a 29" geared down.

If I do this ride I probably would still be on a 29 guni.

The advantage of a 12/12hr shift is you could shift yourself to full nocturnality a few days ahead of time. I would volunteer for a night shift. Given its a loop of 136 miles another option, if there were 2 shifts of 3 riders each, would be to trade laps. I expect a lap would take about 10hrs, if things went well.

ro

40

Roland, I think I told Mark I was gonna sell my 36" after RTL ! :astonished:

After being passed by several gunis during the RTL Time Trial (the rest of the RTL I never saw them [guess why]) I was like a kid in a candy store . . . I want one too!

I think distance unicycling is experiencing an age of discovery and that’s an exciting place to be . . so, plan on seeing me around for a while :wink:

Assuming I get my geared hub in time for this event, and I get some time to build up speed on it, count me in…