One Wheel Against War

Off-topic
61

John,

Others have said it before here, but if you make it a habit of reading alternative sources of news such as The Nation, The Progressive, etc and listening to alternative broadcast media such as the Pacifica Network you would hear things such as the above about Iraqi oil, routinely. You will also hear a great deal of anti-American sentiment that will upset you as it sometimes does me; but you will be presented with facts that the New York Times, USA Today and CNN don’t. Even accessing mainstream non-US news sources will give you a broader view.

Do you know what nation is the most flagrant violator of UN resolutions? It’s Israel.

Did you know that on July 25, 1990, 4 days before Iraq invaded Kuwait that US Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, told Hussein that the U.S. had no interest in Arab-Arab conflicts including Iraqs’ border dispute with Kuwait.

Of course you know what nation provided Iraq with arms in its war with Iran. It was the United States. And that the US supported Hussein’s party in its violent ascendency in Iraq since 1963.

One may argue that our past behavior does not mitigate the fact that Hussein represents a serious threat to the world now. I will not dispute that, although the U.S. case for war now is, in my opinion, weak.

What is clear is that the U.S has a history of supporting brutal dictators who serve its interests. Often undermining and overthrowing democratically and popularly elected leaders. We did it in the Congo, Indonesia, Chile, Guatemala, and Iraq. Dammit even Nobel Peace Prize winner Jimmy Carter, a democrat, backed the El Salvadorian tyrant Roberto D’Aubisson (sic?) who everyone knew was backing the vicious death squads. We funded Osama bin Laden as a fighter against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. And too often it turns out that these creeps who we supported turn against us.

So, while we sit on the brink of war, the question for the future is, I suppose, when does it all end.? How long can the United States have 6% of the worlds population while using 25% of its resouces and continue to support tyranny and oppression abroad to maintain this?

I believe that the United States represents many fine ideals. I also believe we are a far cry from living up to them.

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ

62

“Air raid sirens have gone off in Baghdad and heavy anti-aircraft fire erupted in the Iraqi capital about 90 minutes after the U.S. deadline passed for Saddam to leave Iraq.”

…and thus it begins.

63

Now that the war has started I dont know where to stand on this issue, I’m still verry much against what we are doing over there. And do not believe that war was the only answer in the situation at hand.

But at the same time I do not believe that now it has started that the US can back down. Not just for the interest of our own national policy, but also for the world. Sending a message we will go to war no just kidding isnt a good one to send to any nation especially ones with tyrants like Sadam.

Damn I hate this war. I hope it is quick and comes to a happy reselution for everyone.

Mike
Unicyclist For Peace

64

Which, when translated from diplomat-speak into plain English, essentially was an invitation (from the US to Iraq) to go ahead with their planned invasion of Kuwait.

… and that Bush’s oil company was the first to build offshore drilling rigs in Kuwait, which needed to be defended from said 1990 Iraqi invasion.

… or that US participation in past wars is no justification for this week’s invasion of Iraq.

… Pinochet … Margaret Thatcher … the Shah of Iran… Ferdinand Marcos in the Philippines… Idi Amin in Uganda… Battista in Cuba, at least until we preferred Castro because we could use him to oust Battista, but then Castro wouldn’t play ball, so…

The whole “jihad” thing was pretty much an antique idea in the Muslim world until it was resurrected by the CIA as a “tool” against the Soviets in Afghanistan. Lest you kid yourself that we were worried about democracy and the poor Afghanis, ask yourself about the great big oil pipeline running through Afghanistan that Western oil companies now control. Afghanistan’s population and infrastructure is in worse shape than ever before, but the oil flows.

In fact, it’s pretty darned hard to find any foreign “conflict” in which the US has been involved militarily that has actually had a peaceful and democratic outcome. Why is that, do you think?

… or, is it vice-versa?

… that’s easy. With all that Iraqi oil that’s about to be “re-allocated”; at least until we all sufffocate in our own smog.

65

Think: Poland, 1939.

66

while u r keen on learning, check this out

“iraq also has the fourth largest army in the world, but u know what? after the first three largest armies in the world there a REAL big drop-of. the hare krishnas is the 5th largest army in the world and they already have the airports. who is the bigger threat?”

(with apologies to bill hicks, the above is quoted from his ‘RELENTLESS’ release containing a lot of commentary about the BUSH WARS - part one http://www.billhicks.com/main/)

67

here is what happened to me:

suddenly I saw that officer in the lobby …
he had a very neat uniform with all decorations on…
I realized what he was about to say :
“I have the deep regret to announce you that your son …”

BANG!
the world collapsed suddenly…

now I have a suggestion to make:

write to your M.P./representative something like that:

" No doubt that you voted with your conscience.
that’s perfectly fine (that’s why we elect human beings not droids).
Now the deed is done
and since everybody has to share the burden
I suggest that for every casualty of war in your constituency you accompany the officer in charge.
Please do not fake compassion (with that face of a cat in a sandbox) stay with the family some time and so come back with empathy.
I suggest also that at the end of the war you visit some iraqi family and try
to tell them something better than
“you son did not die in vain, you are now free”

sad bear

68

am i reading this right?

69

yes (though it did happen some years ago)
just hope you guys will try to make people write these letters

thanks

bear

70

ugh

Your all fools. The way I look at it, regardless of whether what we are doing over there is morally right, we should be supporting our president and our troops overseas in any way we can. Oh and heres something to munch on… who says that imperialism is wrong? who says that it is wrong to profit out of a war? If you have to pick your fights… at least pick the profitable ones.
I think anybody who is chanting for peace with plugged ears at this point is living in an idealistic world. War happens. It just does.
And it always will. Protesting isn’t WRONG, but I thinkest that this is the wrong one to protest against.

Tim

71

First thought: This has GOT to be sarcasm or deliberate provocation

Second thought: Maybe not. Maybe the agressive start of the post made me read things into it that he really didn’t mean.

Third thought: Ask the guy

You are saying that we’re at war so lets stop arguing and support the troops. Right?
It doesn’t mean that you’d support anything the president suggests, no matter how wrong it is. Does it? E.g. its not like you’d support a ban on unicycling if the president supported it. Right?

To you imperialism doesn’t mean ruling other people with force, regardless their wish for freedom and independence. Does it?

You mean that if a war is otherwise justified profit shouldn’t hold you back. Right?

You’re saying that in the real world war sometimes is the lesser evil, and that this is the case in Iraq. Right?

72

Borges,

What he’s saying is, that he thinks we should all support the now out-of-the-closet fascism that is the American government’s published policy. He’s echoing Fuhrer Bush’s message of “Shut up, stop thinking, and goose-step higher.”

“My country, right or wrong!” is the type of “idea” that is keeping our world emotionally stuck in the stone age.

That, and the incredible profitablity of war.

Of course, if profit is the point to begin with, nothing else matters. It’s just business. Nothing personal, y’know?

73

War? Have I missed something here? Did the US Congress suddenly declare war? Did the British or Australian Parliaments suddenly declare war? I thought the war protesters were doing a good job and had so far prevented war from being declared.

74

We now return you to our regularly scheduled sarcasm.

75

Well, certainly not our brave Vice President, safe in his underground bunker.

Gee! I sure hope none of you carrion-investor-types on this forum lost any money this week!

If you did, maybe you can petition the White House for a special “Liberty” tax-break.

76

Pardon me if I’m ignorant here, but this sounds like one of those quotes that sounds really bad later on, but made perfect sense at the time. To me a border dispute and the occupation of an entire country (even if it’s small) are two entirely different things.

Yes, but does that stop him from being a bad guy today (and in 1990)?

Maybe we made him what he is by making him powerful. Maybe we should have let Iran and Iraq slug it out on their own in the 80s. I’m not sure what difference it would have made. Perhaps our war today would be against a much more powerful Iran instead? Impossible to know.

I’m right with you on that.

I think our choices in those matters put our own national interests first, and the quality of the leaders/nations we helped out second. Not in all cases though. In other words, I wouldn’t accuse our government of seeking out dictators to support.

As long as we can afford it. But this won’t be forever. Much of the rest of the world is rapidly becoming industrialized and modernized. It will not always be this way.

Do we actively support tyranny and oppression abroad? Or do we support our national interests? Not to say we do everything right when certainly we do not.

I did not vote for George Bush Senior, but I trusted him. I don’t feel the same about this president. Was it a strong urge to do something “big” in our war on terrorism? Or is there something else going on here?

Of course the Bush family is involved in oil. If anyone thinks the answer this this obvious, go ahead but I don’t think the rest of our government would be so easily convinced to follow along. Protection of oil fields has always been a concern in the Middle East. I’m pretty sure this war isn’t about who gets the oil. Though this could become an issue if there are problems setting up Iraq’s new government after this is all over. Are the Iraqi people ready for a government by-the-people? I hope it doesn’t backfire.

I read about Afganistan and the pipeline running through it. I don’t know the details there, but I believe it was the Afghan government that trod on its people, not oil companies. The same goes for Iraq. Plenty of oil, but I didn’t see Saddam spreading the wealth. This is true for the other Middle Eastern states as well, so I’m not sure what it all means. If the oil of Iraq can actually become the province of the people there, that will certainly be a victory, both for us and them. For them in that they can share the wealth, and for us in that it will still be for sale.

Certainly this war is not protecting us from any immediate terrorist threat. By having this war, we seem to be creating an environment for more terrorism to be committed against us. But I don’t see this threat either. Part of me feels this is being concocted to make us think we have to fight this war to stave off a real and immediate danger at home. From Iraqui terrorists???

Thanks Raphael for enlightening us.

77

Re: ugh

Whoa, dude, do you lick your momma’s butt with that mouth?

78

Now I know why no one from Iraq has competed at UNICON.
Uday Hussein is accused of the torture and murder of athletes who fail to win

The threat of torture or death if you failed to win would take all the fun out of UNICON.

79

Protest signs

Back to the original post- “signs”

We Protest the War not the Warriors

If you are protesting in the USA…It would be nice to see people waving the American Flag with their signs. Too many demonstrations appear to hate the country and the soldiers.

We all have people in our communities who are serving in the military. We need to let them know we are supporting them and hope they return soon.

We can love our country while protesting the direction our leadership has taken us. We are great Americans so let’s act like it in our protest. Think about the soldiers and our veterans. They deserve knowing that we are with them.

80

Because in the last war with Iraq the United States fabricated the story that Iraqi soldiers were killing Kuwaiti babies by throwing them out of incubators in hospitals, I was suspicious of this story which I also saw yesterday. So I did some investigating.

This story is not new and has been around at least for a few months.

The claim that a coach had his hand amputated after being falsely accused of stealing some equipment is borne out by this Amnesty International report (from 1999, not 2001 as stated in the SI article):

http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index/MDE140101999?OpenDocument&of=COUNTRIES\IRAQ

Contrary to the claims in the article it appears that the IOC has contacted Iraqi athletes living in exile who have made claims of torture against Uday Hussein:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/53184p-49870c.html

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/52436p-49160c.html

Also it should be noted for completeness that INDICT ( indict.org.uk ) the human rights group most vocal in making accusations against Uday Hussein is funded by the United States government under the terms of the 1998 Iraq Liberation Act:

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=105_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ338.105

Please, do not think that I write any of this because I doubt that Hussein regime is anything but cruel and brutal nor that the Iraqi people wouldn’t be better off with it. In fact, I believe that at least some of this story is probably true.

It is merely that it is quite convenient that such a story should suddenly, during the first week of our invasion of Iraq, appear in, of all places, Sports Illustrated. Such stories never suddenly appeared about Pinochet (Chile), Suharto (Indonesia), or Mubuto (the former Zaire) even though the United States was fully aware of their brutal treatment of their own citizens as well and in some cases has had to publicly acknowledge this fact, e.g. in Guatemala.

Respectfully,
Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ