It’s annoying that you keep calling it ISIS when it’s not
Ill just use the term “pins”, I should of been calling it that because that is how we refer to the different test hubs. 5 pin, 6 pin, 3 pin and etc
when you start jumping like jacob you’ll want a light hub too haha
I agree that a lighter uni allows for higher jumps and a lighter wheelset/cranks aids in street/flat skills, it’s simple physics. But how much lighter are we talking about?
Forgetting the affect on tire rotation for the moment, what is the weight difference between some “standard” uni configuration and one with these lighter parts? Will I really achieve a couple of inches difference in my jumps?
My 24inch with the standard M4O chromo hub, drilled moments and sun ringle double wide rim weighed in around a little over 12 pounds. With the ergal hub kit and nimbus rim my 24inch now is under 11 pounds.
With my “older” 24inch I could do 100cm over the bar. With the “new” 24inch it went up to 104cm. I really feel that the weight helped some because it made the uni easier to tweak sideways to get that extra height
Hello all, I am a long time unicyclist (Trials and Muni) and user of this forums (lets say about 8 or 9 years).
I remember when I first got into this sport, and indeed onto these forums, unicyclists were excited when new parts were released. Those were the days of very little options, go profile or go home due to a broken part, so anything innovative or new was embraced. Some products didn’t turn out, they broke or just didn’t “feel” right, but many of those products were forerunners of the strong reliable parts we all now enjoy.
These days, we have a ton of options (KH, Koxx-one, Impact, Qu-ax, Mad4one and Nimbus) and I think that is very exciting. No longer are we limited by our equipment, instead we are limited only by our imagination, skill and guts to try things. Moreover no company that I mentioned has stopped innovating, they are just as passionate about improving the gear we ride. I think it is HUGE that we have gone from 1 or 2 companies to at least 6 good companies I can think of off the top of my head. Considering how small this (the unicycling) market is, that is a big thing.
So here is my question, when did the unicycling community become so negative and critical of new equipment? I have seen it over the past two years, more and more often when companies do us the privilege of announcing new equipment on our forum we turn around and criticize it. Personally I am tired of it and here are my problems with this negative attitude:
This company has worked a long time developing the product, they are excited to announce it. If we as a whole always react by attacking the product they will eventually stop announcing things on this forum. I already can think of a few companies who don’t announce on this site for that exact reason.
Anything new give more options. Sure mad4one is trying something new, likely it isn’t for everyone but at least we all now have a new option to choose from.
It is already made. If you have strong opinions of what you want to see in new products, get involved prior to the release of the product. Send an email, make suggestions, give the company feedback on the parts your riding and most importantly just communicate with the company.
Don’t knock it till you have tried it. Theoretical knowledge is great, however try to appreciate that until you ride it you likely don’t have a complete picture of the new part. I myself remember riding profiles for a very long time, thinking that weight and crank length didn’t matter. I then jumped on a new KH uni and realized how wrong I was. It made SUCH a difference. Who is to say that the mad4one hub isn’t going to make a HUGE difference in the feel of your unicycle? I respect reviews of a unicycle, I also respect that each person prefers different things, just don’t tell me how bad a product is until you have ridden it for a little while.
A positive community leads to a more productive community. I can quote a ton of research in this regard, if people react positively it motivates that person/company to continue to innovate. If we constantly say how crappy the product is they aren’t going to want to make it anymore, people/companies like to be liked. The same thing goes for videos, sure there are a lot of un-skilled unicyclists out there but we all were at sometime. No one develops skills on a unicycle in a day, so lets encourage people to get better instead of shaming them for not being skilled. Bringing down another person only proves that your not very confident yourself.
So I for one say this is exciting, someone is trying something new. They have done their research, and now people will test them the best way possible: by riding it.
I say good for you Mad4One, they are pretty and different hubs!
P.S What are your thoughts? Do you agree or disagree, either way I would love to know why?
So I’ll never want a light hub…
I know that Jacob can do some amazing things and that he can probably even benefit from a light hub - but I just wanted to point out why normal unicyclists (well that might be a contradiction :D) care more about the weight of the tire/tube/rim.
I think you guys would love the ergal hubs! Its amazing how a lighter uni makes turning and any movement easier. With a heavy uni it feels as if the uni controls you, where as with a light uni YOU control.
I do agree with you guys about lighter tires and tubes, its amazing how much of a different those make with riding as well.
I don’t think anyone is saying it is a bad product but some of us are a bit miffed with the departure from ISIS without any explanation.
In my opinion a new spline interface is much bigger news than another disk hub.
I am curious about this new spline interface, does it have a larger diameter than ISIS? If it is larger than ISIS what bearing does it use? Is that bearing a standard size? how many splines? will other companies be able to use it to build compatible parts?
Love the idea of a one piece machined hub, but like Ben I have half a dozen unicycles with ISIS hubs/cranks and I like having interchangeable parts.
Yes the axle has a larger diameter for more strength reasons.
I agree with being able to change parts as well! The mad4one hubs arent for everyone but I honestly feel that a lot of people could benefit from them
My honest feelings about the ergal hub kit is that only mad4one cranks should be used on them. It would feel awkward to me to use a different set of cranks on them. The chromo hub I actually like how the moments feel on them vs how the m41 cranks do. Its all opinion and rider based though
Jacob leads me to this thread, I missed it before, sorry. So some comments to your discussion.
Thanks to vicuniclub for his very good statement. There are a very view manufacturer in unicycle market so we all should be happy about new ideas even if we think they lead to the wrong direction. Finaly a bad design wouldnt be on the market for a long time for sure.
Also thanks to all other comments, we post the stuff to get comments to understand better what people think and want.
I also want to answer to some maybe still open questions (even Jacob answer the most so far.
this products are no computer animation, they are real and will be used while Unicon.
Mad4one ERGAL (ALuminium) Hubs with ISIS exist and work well until some limits. We see a physical limit at 125mm Cranks, All tests we do with longer Cranks end in bending or braking after some time under High Stress. As we don’t expect that a beginner will buy our products, we expect more pro riders which usually bring a lot of load on the Hub/Crank System. So this special Design with grown Diameter and less pins provide the oportunity to use 135mm Cranks on ERGAL Hubs which result in a total weight for Hub / Cranks / Bearings from arround 720 gramm.
This design is tested since arround one year now and improved by Riders like Jacob, Mark Fabian, Kristof Horvath, Joe Hodges, Krisz Kovacs, Colby Danger Thomas… so you see those test kits have not an easy live
The Disk Brake hub will be availiable also as CroMo ISIS Version once it is in a final status. We develop in ERGAL because it is more easy and we want to have the perfect final Design before we start also with CroMo Hubs. So you will be able to get it with default ISIS made from peace of best steel, fitting to your favourite Crank in the future.
To cover the needs of the race riders we need to go for a small system and so we decide to make the splined system smaller but strong and create something simmilar to the special splined Design for ERGAL Trial / Muni hubs, just much shorter. So its light, small and able to handle big impact. A pro race rider wont have a need to exchange Cranks often, he can use this system for many years without any problem. He focus on the best possible setup and we work together with some very fast riders to develop it.
Buying in USA? Check out mad4one.com to see all reseller, we dont have one in the US but several in Canada. Maybe that helps.
I hope I forget no answer, if I did, feel free to remember me
Also those and other custom colors will be availiable for mad4one products after Unicon.
Good to know, thanks for clarifying.
In regards to using a new standard, there really is no reason to reinvent the wheel, the biking industry has been all over this sort of design for decades, so I really doubt there is anything new here.
ISIS works fine, I have a dozen plus cranks in a wide range of sizes from KH, Nimbus, Try All, Truvativ, Koxx, QuAx, and they all fit slightly different so require different spacing, but they all do fit.
I am most interested in one piece hubs as I have had my fair share of creaking hubs where the hub spindle and hub body interface started to wear. It is really a challenge to make that interface durable enough for muni use, whereas a single piece hub/spindle would solve that problem.
My only concern with Mad4One hubs is the low flange height which can cause premature spoke wear/breakage due to the lack of flexibility in a short flange. Are the any plans to build a with a taller flange?
Also, my only wear issues at the ISI interface has been with a low quality cranks and it was in the crank side spline where I had some loosening, as you’d expect since the crank is Al and the spindle is Cro.
If Ergal is Al, then expect to have wear at the spindle as well as the cranks, though maybe al to al is better in terms of premature wear? Josh at UDC said that al spindleS were prone to twisting…so they don’t recommend them for anything but freestyle or touring.
Due to the ID of the spindle bearing sleeve, the spindle can only be made so big, so really there is no way to make a bigger spindle unless you use a diffent bearing, but then a bigger spindle/bearing/bearing holder would weigh more so you are probably fighting yourself. Ti is a great spindle material, light like al and strong like Cro.
Make me a Mad4One ti disc hub and I’ll buy them.
Any thoughts on building to the 125mm bearing spacing, like the Oregon?
@Nurse Ben and everyone else
The only reason why the number of pins is different is so that the hub does NOT bend or break. The Diameter is NOT the same as the standard ISIS, it is BIGGER. You can not use standard bearings because of this but I dont mind it because the bearings are much lighter and save a lot of weight. I think bearings is a place that a lot of unicycle companies should look at. Its amazing how heavy standard bearings are compared to other parts on a unicycle.
About the smaller flanges, yes you will break more spokes (if you dont care of your wheel.) I have only broken one since I started riding small flanges and that is because I true my wheel after every ride. The one and only time i have ever broken a spoke is merely because I didnt take care of my wheel for a while and I under rotated a 360 off a 5 set.
A full Ti hub would be pretty sweet! I just cant imagine how much it would cost…
About the wide hubs, 125mm in spacing. I am not entirely sure if they will be made but I could imagine in the future something MAY be thought of.
So the OD of the spindle is bigger than the standard? What bearings are you using? Is the bearing holder sized for 42mm OD bearing or are you using a thinner bearing?
I completely agree, the bearings could be improved, made thinner, higher quality, as this could save weight as well as make the wheel more stable in the frame.
So what is the OD of the spindle?
The OD of the spindle is 25mm and yes I am still using a standard frame that is meant for a 42mm bearing.
It seems ok for me. Look at the following picture it seems to be groved cranck+groved hub+(5?)keys.
Koxx use 25x42x12 bearing, these are perhaps the same.
So 25mm OD vs 22mm OD?
What’s with the “pins” or keys shown in Philipe’s picture?
When you guys decide to build a ti one piece ISIS compatible hub, let me know
The pins are meant to be a weak link. They are mainly for the chromo hubs but the purpose of them is that they fail before you damage the crank or hub. So instead of having to buy a new crank or hub you just have to buy new pins.
If the pins are meant to be the weak link are they made out of a softer metal? Do they deform on installation to make a perfect fit? Can they be re-used indefinitely or should they be thrown away each time you switch cranks?
I am really curious how this system work out for you guys. I can see that it would be much cheeper to utilize than ISIS, especially on the crank side.
While compatibility with bike parts is nice Unicycling is getting big enough to carry it’s own standards (like the current 22x42x12 bearing). Exciting times indeed.