Guys, the profile is an old, old crankset. I’ve seen roger (UDC.uk) weigh in on the KH vs profiles, as well as kris himself. While nobody has bothered (or is willing?) to test the splined cranksets objectively for strength, the KH is very possibly stronger, will never develop keyway slop, and also makes a stronger wheel. I don’t see any reason to go with the Yuni/profile setup when the KH is a better machine, for less.
edit: with the kh, you also get a better rim, adjustable seat angle (this really makes a difference, trust me), the new kh dual density seat which is super comfy, and brake mounts. Not sure if the Yuni does brakes. Seriously, comparing all the pros and cons, the KH comes out on top :q
It’s simple… if a company builds a solid product then they won’t lose much money offering a lifetime warranty.
People who don’t ride very hard can buy a “cheapie” unicycle, like the Torker. People who ride hard should have the option to spend more money and get a solid product with a warranty. Thankfully Profile has figured that out. I don’t care if I have to spend big bucks, it’s still cheaper than spending the time and money to replace broken components over and over.
Translation: the Profile crankset is an established design. It’s been tested by many riders over many years. Granted it could use an update, but I’ve yet to hear a story about how a Profile design flaw has led to complete failure.
Flyer, you then go on to say no one has tested the KH, the KH is possibly stronger, then you say the KH makes for a stronger wheel. I call BS. The wheel’s strength depends on the design of the rim, the proper installation of the spokes, the dimensions of the hub and the strength of the axle. Can you tell me what differences there are between the KH and Profile hubs that substantiate your “stronger” claim? Ditto for the rims… I doubt there is that much difference.
What are you, a shill for Profile?
It makes sense to spend $137 more on an equivalent uni (assuming they are equivalent otherwise, which they aren’t) to get a lifetime warranty only if you’re expecting to break the crank on the same side more than once in the life of the uni. (New cranks cost less than $137).
There’s no real evidence that Profile cranks are actually stronger than KH cranks; don’t both Universe movies and Defect all feature film of Profile crank breakage? (The outhouse drop, night trials, and Montana).
shill (shĭl) Slang.
n.
One who poses as a satisfied customer or an enthusiastic gambler to dupe bystanders into participating in a swindle.
I’m not posing. I am an actual satisfied customer.
What’s the swindle?
What do you care anyways? What are you trying to prove?
There’s no conclusive evidence to declare one hub or the other to be “far superior”… I am not using a simple economic formula here, I am in the camp of progressive consumerism, using my money to support manufacturers who stand behind their product.
I consider Profile the anti-Sony. Sony makes consumer goods of throw-away quality (i.e. you throw them away after a few years 'cause they’re broken beyond simple repair), but they sell them cheaply so people will buy them and not feel so bad about replacing them. As long as people support these kind of manufacturers, these kind of products will continue to be produced, and by many manufacturers (other manuf’s see Sony’s success and follow their lead). Granted the unicycle component market is quite small as is the number of manufacturers, but that number isn’t one, so I will exercise my power as a consumer and vote with my money, and encourage others to do so.
In summary, until a good number of riders insist on well-built AND warrantied unicycle components, they won’t become commercially available. If no one shows any interest in warrantied components, they may just go away.
It’s been tested, AND improvements have been made on it, in the form of the KH hub. The KH has been tested, and by the same people no less (hi kris holm).
What I said, and the important detail that you missed, was that there was no OBJECTIVE testing, i.e., nobody has done accurate measurements on what kind of forces it takes to break either one. Until that’s done, we’ll never really know.
From what I hear (and yes, I know this is subjective but I’ve heard it over and over from people who know what they’re talking about), the KH will easily take the same abuse as a profile setup, and then some. I’ve read kris himself has all but given up testing them because he can’t break them.
The profile is also keyway construction. This is a design flaw. The cranks can develop slop. The kh is one super-strong splined piece, with everything sliding over it and held on by the same splines the entire length of the hub. This means you’re not going to get any problems with wiggling.
The hub flanges are wider apart. This is what allows for the stronger wheel. The larger the distance between the hub flanges, the stronger your wheel. Also, there’s something about the way they’re attached or something like that that makes them stronger as well. There are posts with specifics floating around here somewheres.
Personally
I have had experience riding a friends KH muni and frankly I love it. However, in his particular set-up he has chosen to have profiles on a KH frame with the KH
seat and a rail type adapter. It’s beautiful, it’s light and it’s strong.
The swindle is paying more money for a setup that’s not any better; in fact is worse in a number of demonstrable ways (weight, keyway slop). I don’t know what you are trying to prove.
Product warranties are, for the most part, a scam; the amount you spend for them is less than their expected value. Most people will never break a splined crank; why should they pay $137 more for a warranty on an $80 part that is probably not going to break?
I don’t even see why there is any argument about this, KH as simple as that, cheaper, lighter, and better built.
As for the warranty on the hub, I think Kris put it better himself then anyone else can, “I just don’t think its fair to make people who don’t break there hubs pay for the ones that do.” Unless you break hubs I wouldn’t recomend a profile, and if your breaking profile OR kh hubs you either have horrible form, or an incapacity to have children.
profillleeee ! but I think ym next set my be kh !.. I dono it’s up to you… if you think your gonna be enidng your cranks (big drops) go with profile for the warenty.
Yes, but did he mention how many sets of his own cranks he’s been through? especially the newest (thicker), strongest ones?
I think that the aformentioned point about people who don’t break cranks having to pay for people who do is also very valid.
I don’t know many people on this forum who could claim to have broken a set of KH cranks, or even profiles for that matter!!
Jason, I know you’re very happy with your new profiles on your muni, and on your trials, and with good reason. You probably will never break them though.
All that people are saying (including Udc Roger) is that the KH crankset was developed to improve on the Profiles’ flaws, and I think it has done so (wider flange, stronger wheel, lighter overall, possibly stronger cranks, and no keyway slop).
If the expensive warranty helps you sleep at night (as would insurance for something), then go for it, but if you want a newer technology, with fewer (or no) known flaws, that also happens to be lighter, then go with the KH and save money.
That’s my humble opinion.
Did I mention I love both of my KH unis and that they are pretty much the bomb-diggity?
Search feature is your friend.
Kris said he merely “wore out” the cranks (sans intentional abuse).
The fundamental point is that whether they wear out, rust, or fail on a 15 foot drop . . .
Get to doing the math.
Again: Search feature is your friend, 'cause the calculation has already been made.
As noted, there may or may not be a cost savings.
Even with the warranty, I try to take good care of my Profiles.
Nonetheless, there is a mental benefit from being ABLE to be carefree.
I ride on a primo rod. Yes it is strong, but it is heavy enough to be used as a battering ram. the rod is also one of the only options in the YUni frame’s size, look at all the options availible for the KH, namely, the thompson (if you want to get something really nice).
The thing about Kris going through dozens of sets, is that if you look at the way he rides, he lands like a cat and just isn’t a crank breaker in the ‘big drop’ way, I believe this was the cranks wearing out at the splines. With the new KH cranks, they shouldn’t wear out in that way, because they’re designed to avoid that flaw. Whatever the cranks, with bad technique or doing really stupid drops, you can bend or break them, but if you practice rather than just jumping off ten foot drops before you can ride, then either should hold up under drops.
They also wear at the keyway, which is a nightmare to fix and may or may not be guaranteed, the lifetime guarantee being for the cranks and crank attachment. Every set of profiles I’ve seen (all on riders who ride a whole lot), has had the dreaded profile creak, and that awful disconnected from the pedals feeling.
As well as normal riders not having to subsidise idiots with poor technique, they should get something that holds up when just riding along, rather than needing to be warranteed 5 times a year if you’re riding a lot. However good a warranty is, it’s no substitute for product development. If you’re riding regularly, or are doing particular events, or are sponsored, you can’t afford to be waiting for warranty cranks, so you end up needing two sets of profile cranks, so as to avoid the warranty delays when your cranks start turning on the axle. Also, warranties aren’t free either, if you figure in the cost of postage, (and wheelbuilds if you want the keyway slop fixing).
Yeah, I’m sure the warranty was a big help to Dylan Wallinger when, right at the start of the Slickrock Trail, his crank broke. “Gee, my day is totally hosed, but at least when I get home I’ll get back $80 of the enormous cost of this crankset!”
I agree and disagree. I agree in the short term, as doing a warrantied replacement can be obnoxious some times. I disagree in the long term. With a warranty, the manufacturer pays for the costs of “product development”… without, it’s the customer who pays.
If anything, a warranty encourages a manufacturer to develop a better product, so they don’t have to pay out warranty claims as much. Selling without a warranty, a manufacturer stands to benefit when their product breaks and a customer comes back to buy another unit… as long as their product isn’t so bad that they lose their customers altogether.
I’m not saying KH’s product is bad, but a warranty would help convince me that it’s better. KH is a relatively new manuf. in comparison to Profile, and although it seems lots of people swear by his products, I’ve also heard of some of his manuf. woes in the past due to overseas outsourcing… who knows what else might come up? I know for sure that my Profiles are manuf’ed in the good old US of A and if I really have a problem with them there’s someone I can call who speaks my language and can help me out.
Yes, with the warranty they can pay for product development, but do they?
Does it encourage profile to make a better product? The warranty doesn’t cover keyway slop and that is a major problem that they haven’t “developed” their way out of. Secondly, they haven’t improved the weight of the crankset. Also, i think that the warranty isn’t keeping them on their toes; rather, it’s keeping them on their heels because people keep buying their stuff regardless of quailty, just because the warranty lets them sleep at night.
Last time I heard, people in Canada speak English too
and were you thinking of calling up Kris’ factory in Taiwan to talk to the makers? they know a lot less about the product than Kris does, and you could email him or talk to someone who sells them (Darren Bedford) or someone who rides the hell out of them (Ryan) or others.
And no hard feelings to anyone in this debate, it’s not like we hate each other for our cranksets…:)\
And a 4th i just thought of that isn’t a direct reply to anyone’s post:
Profile has a good share (at least i think so) in the BMX market, or at least that’s their main focus; whereas Kris makes unis, and only uni products. I think even if you think his products aren’t the best already, they’re going to get even better because that’s where his focus is. Have there been major revisions to the profile crankset in the last few years?? I didn’t think there were… but I’ve only been riding for 1 year (to the week actually :))
Just some food for thought…
