KH20 weight saving upgrades

[Feisty]

Having been a weight Weenie all my life and previously building a light weight MUni now that I have fully gotten the Trials bug I though my very standard 2008 KH20 Long Neck need spoiling and shedding some weight in the process.

My aim was to keep maximum strength at all costs as unlike my MUni KH26 I am doing bigger and bigger drops etc and can’t have any fear in me that something might break (well no more than normal).

I replaced my Street Gel with an Impact Naomi which was raped as soon as it came out of the packet with a UDC CF base (what a bee-atch of a job, the captive nuts and bolts were too long so needed cutting and without a tap it is tricky to get a bolt started without cross threading etc, just getting everything lined up was a nightmare) but the weight saving and rigidity was worth it

I replace my Moment cranks with Spirit cranks (not sure on the Q factor not really an issue with the feeling of them but they look relay wide)

My Twisted PCs were changed to some Nuke Proof Electrons (I have these on my Muni and they rock)

I changed the 2 bolt clamp to an Echo 1 bolt (I have never had an issue with a one bolt)

And finally I changed my CC to the new MEC Race!

All this dropped me from 5.2kg to 4.5kg dead which was bang on what I expected. I don’t feel anything has been compromised (have to see how I get on with the tyre) and it was relatively a cheap upgrade with parts that are or soon will be standard spec in time.

Next month I will probably get a new wheel with KH Ti Hub and replace my 2007 rim with a KH 2009 one. This should save me another 250g without any drama strength wise.

Some people might be wondering what the point is as my skill is the biggest limiting factor but any real or psychological benefit the lighter weight will give my hop height I will take but more importantly I like new gear and being a grown up I can afford nice things

I will post back with some ride reviews of the parts as there seems to be little info on the tyre and cranks on a Trials Uni but I am far from a pro

Here are some pics to enjoy

[OutdoorJunkie]

@Feisty

Next month I will probably get a new wheel with KH Ti Hub and replace my 2007 rim with a KH 2009 one. This should save me another 250g without any drama strength wise.

Sick trials dude!

Would you get the newer KH ti hub with aluminium flanges and ti axle or the old KH 08 full ti hub? I would not recomended the KH08 ti hub at all, they are prone to breaking and expensive! I broke my KH08 ti hub and it was a dissapointment! Also if you want to buy a ti hub the exceed ti hub seems to be the best on the market, people have had problems with the ‘newer’ ti kh hub to

[Twente_Muni]

Nice work

Hi Feisty,

Very interesting, I used to be a weight weenies myself, in my MTB and singlespeed days.
I stopped biking when I discovered Muni, and for some years I couldn’t bother for the weight of my uni. But now and then the Weight weenie feelings come back again, especially after watching this uni:

http://www.einradshop.ch/einrad-shop/de/einrader-kaufen-schweiz/210-get-it-one-cross-country-einrad-kaufen-schweiz.html

How is your lightweight Muni speced?

[Feisty]

Interesting I went to a 15lb lefty singlespeed for a challenge then after a few years found municycling and haven’t got on a bike since so same as you 5.4kg kh26 build here

Went for a short ride and it is so different and it is effecting my general stablity. Not sure if it is the rounder tyre or the wider stance on higher q factor cranks hmm

I will adapt I am sure but it does feel light beneath me and I can easily smack it into my arse doing seat in hops so I need to work on my technique more to go higher lol

Tyre grips well although squeeks which is probably the mold release film on the new tyre so that should wear off.

Cranks feel wide and I will measure the difference tomorrow to see if it is more in my mind.

Saddle is very comfy and very stiff worth the effort of fitting it.

As for the new wheel I like the exceed nice strong flanges I am happy pulling bearings so don’t care about that “feature” and the pure ti design looks sweet. We will see municycle.de have them

Overall I am happy although I didn’t expect it to hit my rifing this much as I am used to hopping between 3 different unis.

[Feisty]

I forgot to add some weights

Eagle Claw Race 800g < Eagle Claw 1000g (both dead on round numbers :p)
Impact Naomi with UDC CF Base 630g < KH2007 Street Gel 810g
137mm KH Spirit Cranks 420g < 137mm KH Moment Cranks 610g
Nuke Proof Electron pedals 350g < Twisted PC pedals 440g
Echo seat post clamp 14g < KH Double Bole seat post clamp 68g

[padst3r]

For the single bolt clamp you could have just cut the kh clamp in half and only leave a little lip to go over the frame. Get ti seat and crank bolts, get rid of back bumper and the 2 bolts. But if you really want it light buy an exceed ti hub 32hole. I think 32hole rims are stronger cause bike trials has been around longer. I had a 4kg uni last year but now im on the kh team i can only get down to 4.5. Oh and i assume you have a longneck frame? cut the seatpost as short as possible

[Feisty]

Thanks for the tips I am looking at the exceed hub but forgot about the 32hole version which opens up the Trials rim choice.

The clamp saves more than half a double clamp and is smaller in all dimentions which looks neater

Yeah my post is only 4" long and the frame lost 2" as well me being a short arse

I have regained 200g as I really didn’t get on with the mec race tyre at all and am back on the creepy.

[muni123]

damn that’s a nice uni

[Feisty]

Cheers

I had though about getting a Ti hub but the mad4one cromo in 32h laced to a Onza Pro Diamond rim will save me about 300g with the complete wheel coming in for less than the price of a ti hub. Compared to the KH/exceed hubs the mad4one hub is only 40/80g heavier respectively.

I have read everything on the arguments for 32h etc and happy that in a small wheel it should be more than strong enough for my needs (I have always run 28/32h rims with DT rev spokes on all my MTBs and never had an issue) but agree with the mantra that a trials rim is a dispossible item anyway

I also am intrested to see if the extra volume of a single waller rim provides to a tyre dose noticably improve tyre bounce.

And most importantly the hun and rim are not that common and look awesome!

Cheap (relative to a ti hub build)
Very light
Strong (enough)?
Awesome looks

against

Possible spoke head snapping issues from stiff short flanges
Bearing removal for spoke replacement
Weak?

Then I will be done …

… maybe …

looks at Triton Trials fame

[Fatlazypig]

To save the trouble of cutting the bolt. And a bit of extra bling. Have a look at the titanium section on this website

Pro-Bolt | Professional Motorcycle Bolts and Fasteners

Saves a few grams too
Been said a few times already but that is one awesome looking uni

Are you selling the EC race?

[Feisty]

Cheers

I have used them for my 15lb bike build nice but pricey

I was going to use ali bolts for the handle and bumper and ti for the seat and bearing caps but I always do a £ per gram saved calculation to do the most cost effective upgrades first. Ti bolts work out pretty pricey in that respect.

Yup the tyre is in the trading forum but international shipping being so expensive I am only looking to ship in the uk.

[knoxuni]

I feel spoiled to have a 5kg trials but yours blows mine away!

[Feisty]

You are highly likely to be an infinity better ride than me though lol

I like nice things but I appretiate they don’t do much to improve my riding if at all

I don’t think I am goign to be able to resist getting a Triton frame though the Kh20 is more than I will ever need but man tritons are just too fine

[Feisty]

Oops I seem to have just spent some more money

I have a cromo mad4one 32h coming from France (only place I could find one), a 32h Onza pro diamond rim coming from Tarty bikes and some 2.0/1.8/2.0 doublebutted DK BMX spokes from Chain reaction cycles.

I am hoping the more forgiving DB spokes will provide the give missing from the rigid small flanges to help stop spoke head breakage that some people have experienced, I am also getting some brass wases to pad the flange and spoke headout.

I hope all that should build a good strong wheel

I am intrested to see what that rim is like as it is very popular in Bike trials and I know a few people here have been using it and they go far bigger and harder than me!

Other than a strong/trick looking wheel I should save 300g minimum! Taking me to 4.4kg (if I had liked the pro race tyre it would be 4.2kg booo :()

Then that is pretty much me done for weight loss with the only other options goign with an exceed hub (whohc would be a straight swap I believe) but for only a further 80g for £260 that would e pretty crazy to do, and then I could swap all the bolts out for Ti / ALi but again pretty pricy for minimal weight loss all in that would only lose me about 100g

Next month a Triton Long Neck frame should mysteriously get purchased and my dream Uni will be complete

[jaco_flans]

The Triton frames are a little bit heavier than the KHs. I can’t find the weights but I know that the Triton was heavier. I have a Triton Sponge because it is stronger than the KH and the old Sponge looks better. If you want to be lighter again, strip the paint off of your KH frame.

I’ll try to find the link of the frame weights.

[Feisty]

@jaco_flans

The Triton frames are a little bit heavier than the KHs. I can’t find the weights but I know that the Triton was heavier. I have a Triton Sponge because it is stronger than the KH and the old Sponge looks better. If you want to be lighter again, strip the paint off of your KH frame.

I’ll try to find the link of the frame weights.

Then I will cut off a finger

I want a Titon frame for no other reason than the asthetics, my KH is more than I will ever need and looks fantastic in it’s own right but who would say no to a Triton if you have the cash

Weight wise the list weight is 660g for the Triton LN and 640g for the KH LN ands with variances in real world weights they are going to be virtually identical.

If I could get a Sponge I would

[Feisty]

no idea where my post went???

Anyway parts have started arriving hopefully my hub and spokes will arrive before the weekend so I can get it built.

The rim is crazy light and the internal volume is massive without the second wall so I can see why people say it impacts the bounce of the tyre

I have a white rim tape which I think will look good with the raw ti frame of the impending Triton purchase but also have a black one to tone it down if need be

[Feisty]

Well after 8 long days the hub got from France to me in the UK, and very light and sturdy feeling it is to.

Assembled all my parts and started the build, hmm, doesn’t seem right sokes instantly seem too long, a quick temporary lace (not bending under the trailing spoke on the third cross) and ah crap! with all the nips bottoms out I have a just under a 1mm gap fom the nipple should to the rim before any slack is taken up.

Now I checked spoke length on 3 only calcs like i have done before and all came in withing 0.3mm, got the caliper on the hub and measurements are fine so that leaves the heavily offset rim (which I allowed for by taking 11 mm off each hub flange distance from center)

They came out at 180.6 - 181 depending on calculator which seems more 20" than 19" but put that down to the tiny flanges and single walled rim with big spoke offset.

I have checked the ERD which is stated as 372mm and only found one Ukrainian site that says that ERD but to use 368mm (with no explanation and isn’t mentioned anywhere), which with the 11 mm per flange adjustment gives 176mm which appears about correct as 6 mm shorter spokes would be halfway through there thread as the slack is initial taken out.

Unfortunately I can’t find any DB spokes in that size anywhere , I can’t even find 14g spokes in that length in black in the UK so I have ordered some 176mm 13g from UDC in the UK along with some more brass washes in 13g. It is a shame as I wanted DB spokes for the bit of elasticity they gave the wheel and the weight saving On a side not the brass washers look sweet on a black hub and spoke combo, subtle but funky looking and the heel is very light (860g without bearings and bolts if memory serves).

Oh well not like I can’t ride my existing wheel

I know a few people have used this rim and would be intrested to know if anyone else had issues?

Measurements are stated as

Mad4one site
Hub Diameter: 30 mm
Width: 68 mm
Spoke hole: 2,9 mm

tartybikes
Rim ERD: 372mm, spoke hole offset 11mm (for spoke calculation, subtract 11mm from both hub offsets)

Random Ukrainian site
ERD: 372mm, for spoke calculation use 368mm.

Not sure on why they provide two sets of spacers?

Slacktastic

[knoxuni]

post some pictures of it with the sweet wheel now.

[Feisty]

@knoxuni

post some pictures of it with the sweet wheel now.

Still waiting for my fourth set of spokes to come though before I can finish the build

She is getting a hammering on the 2008 KH wheel at the moment