Idling and backwards

Riding Advice
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I know this topic has been discussed here a million times but I still want to get your opinions before deciding which way is the best to learn these.

I’m 45+, and have started learning 4 years ago on a 20", but didn’t get serious (only tried, on and off, weekly) until 2 years ago when it finally clicked. From then on I pretty much followed the learning curve of everyone else and now I can static mount, do u-turns, slopes, go down grassy hills, ride over curbs, ride kilometers on a single mount, and hop a little but not consistently.

I think riding backwards and idling would be my next goal. I see various opinions on how to do it, but I’m still not certain what to tackle first because there seems to be quite a few!

e.g. idle, backwards, stalling, rollback mount…how can I find out which one to learn first? I did have a bit of success with rollback mounts, not sure how well it translates to idling.

As to technique, when you ride backwards or idle, is all the weight still on the saddle? How much to lean backwards? do you flail your hands, and would riding backwards along a wall work or would you use a shopping cart or a broom like some videos suggest?

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Never use a crutch. All of your weight in the seat for either.

Riding backwards: Look at where you’re going to go before you ride, then when you ride, look in front of you…far into the distance as if you’re riding forward. Get the feel for it that way.

Idling: If you already know how to ride backwards, super-idling (full revolutions forward and backward) may be a better way to start. Get the feel of that first.

Repeat: Never use a crutch. All of your weight in the seat for either. People tend to stand on the pedals a lot when learning to idle.

Note: Pedals tend to unscrew riding backwards. Check them often.

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Hey Triv,
Do you still ride the 20", I think you are ready for a 24" it is such a different experience where the unicycle momentum now can carry and help you if you can tame it a little.

…slam

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Wow thank you both for the quick input! By no crutch do you mean no long stick or broom or cart as a supportive aid?

As for size - I already ride a 24" as an exercise trying to do distance (I can go over bumps on both but obviously easier on the 24, while going down a grassy trail must be easier on the 20 with its knobby tyre, I wouldn’t do it with the 24 which has Hookworm) but plan on learning new skills on a 20. Does it make a difference? I think a properly inflated 20" might allow quicker pivoting and easier to learn idling particularly with a relatively longer crank - the 24 has a 125mm crank, the 20 I didn’t check but more than 110 I think.

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I learned both in the last year. I got idling first before backwards really clicked, but I learned them largely in tandem. I found that for idling, I used a wall to help me get the feel for the pedal movements(it’s a very different feeling) and then all of the actual practice free of anything(and far from things you might hit). For backwards, I just rode to a stop and tried pedaling backwards as far as I could. That started out being half a revolution or less, but gradually grew.
I started trying both of these skills when all I had was my 24” muni. I got a 20” for the sake of learning and the difference was noticeable. The smaller wheel is much easier to learn these small technical tricks. If you have a knobby 20”, I’d recommend higher tire pressure to help. In terms of hopping, the wider tire is a huge bonus.
Happy learning!
Jack

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By no crutch do you mean no long stick or broom or cart as a supportive aid?

Yep.

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7

I’m a big fan of practicing a few tricks at once, so I would say try all of them. I think that practicing the same movement over and over for more than 15 minutes should typically be avoided. So doing a series of attempts on one, then switching to another trick/movement once you stop seeing progress or even see regression is good.
There are some tricks I would not recommend practicing concurrently (gliding and coasting for example), but the ones you listed should help each other.

Yes, it can help you get more comfortable with learning the motion and finding body position without falling off constantly. As with riding forward, make sure to only use one hand on the wall.
From what I’ve seen the body position and pedaling is quickly figured out for most riders (since it’s really not too different from riding forward), so I don’t think you’ll need much time on the wall.

Classic trial and error. If you constantly fall of forwards, you need to shift your center of mass back, if you fall of backwards, center of mass needs to be further forward.

As with riding forward, weight in the seat is good, but (with rare exceptions) I don’t think it’s a usable cue for training, it’s too abstract to process. Once your movements become less tense in a riding skill, your weight usually will be more in the seat automatically.

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OKay, I believe I created a string before on backwards and idling, but I’m too fkn lazy to look it up. Probably, I would end up “not liking” what I wrote 2 or 3 years ago, so let’s start from scratch again.

Question:
1.) Should I learn backwards riding or idling first?

Answer: neither, how is you “free mounting” using the rock back idle technique?

If you can do that, you are actually doing a Half Idle!!
Congratulations, but I’m concerned that you did not notice this connection.
Are you “barely” doing it and don’t feel competent?

Let’s start at that first,
How is your rock back idle?

-Can you do this consistently?
-Do you find it complicated?
-Do you find yourself rolling backwards?

This is the first free mount that I learned successfully for myself, after failing miserably doing the 3 & 9 “traditional mount”.

…slam

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Slam how often do you really idle. I never put much effort into learning. Stopping at a traffic light and freemounting when needed, or initially approaching very slowly in case it does turn green, have been just as easy for me. When rising in the forest there never is a need to idle either.
Riding backwards I had put some time in but then messed up the threading of the pedal and crank on the trials, so had to buy a new one.

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10

Maybe it‘s a case of personal preferences. If the circumstances allow, I‘d rather idle or bunny hop than dismount and remount, if the pause will presumably be short, like a couple seconds. Slowing down is of course the first option, but the delay that you can create that way is not always enough. That‘s when any of the two skills come in handy.
Sometimes I deliberately hop or idle for a longer duration, just for the fun of it. E.g. yesterday I had to stop at a red light (not that it made a lot of sense, since there wasn’t any noticeable car traffic in the early sunday morning, but some red lights are in service 24/7). When I passed for the first time, I idled. On my way back I decided to bunny hop instead, but the light changed to green before I even had to stop.

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Interesting, Slamdance, I’m starting to use the rollback mount and my success rate is about 30% now yes with some rolling backwards.

Have always been static mounting with a 90+ rate. Does it help a lot? From what you’ve said it seems I should double my effort on it. I don’t find it complicated but I definitely cannot consistently do it.

Question is, did this help you tremendously on your way to idle? I think after reading a lot I see that the crux is how to make mini adjustments and tiny turns on both ends of the idle.

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Hey Setonix, regarding idling and riding. I actually “idle” more than ride. Every morning before work I get on it for 15 minutes. There is a parking lot with a nice culdesac. Just pop my trunk, change shoes and practice the following, “only”

a.) free mount: I do a method called “back mount”, which is from SIF → mount. which is stand behind unicycle, hands on seat, one foot down on pedal at 6 o’clock… Then slowly rise up/over/down onto the seat. Immediately, get into idle. My goal is to rise and do the “perfect” pause at the top.

b.) idle: just “one rotation” frwd and “one rotation” backwards. That doesn’t sound like much but during the pedals at 3 & 9 o’clock I almost hold a standstill. The key to smooth idling is not quickly dropping into one foot down, but that transition part. BAlance, balance. Also, to condition your mind to be able to pause, and with lightning quick impulse “quickly decide/prepare body” to either rotate frwd or backwards. If I haven’t practiced enough, my mind quickly “glitches” or “goes blank”. Something you don’t worry about when you continually ride forwards and back. So, yeah…a lot of “mental activity” can happen just in the space of 3 ft in front and 3 ft behind you.

c.) Transition from idle back or fwd to “standing”

d.) Transition from idle back to SIF. Then sit down again. Now, this is a real workout. Switching back and forth can quickly cause fatigue in less than 5 minutes.

Anyways, that’s all I do everyday except on weekends I will go ride a little bit but mostly “slowly” on uneven grass or my favorite slow uphills. I guess you can call me more of an “idler” than a “rider”.

Anyways, for my friend Trivial out there. It seems you are fairly familiar with free mounting and idling. My first advice without getting technical is this:
a.) Just free mount and then “focus” on idling.
b.) Do not focus on getting up and “riding” forwards.

When I was learning there was always two big decisions. Should I go ride and “have fun” with this magical ability to balance and ride? Or, should I “waste time” and get tired from mindless boring free mounting? Yeah…that’s what I felt in the beginning. Forget about doing anything static. I want to go ride.

So, know my main enjoyment comes from achieving that perfect “static” balance positions, rocking back/forth, and then "getting off the seat and just holding it with my hands. SIF.

…slam

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I think that the practice in stepwise turns to the left/right when idling will help in that. Gradually increase a step of the rotation.

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IDLING 101

OKay, a few people seem to be interested in learning to idle. Let’s get into it, shall we. At least “how I learned, what I did and my fails/wins”
The 3 levels of idling competence and what it looks like?

1.) Beginner level: So, this is what I first tried/work after several tries or a week or two:
a.) Grab onto a pole or “low rail”. It’s important where you place your hands. Keep them at low hip level, so that it allows freedom to rock back/forth.

b.) Put a “tremendous” amount of weight on my down foot. This is the “ballast” like a sailboat or ship. So, it allows yout o rock back and forth. Keep it heavy. Keep it steady.

c.) Top foot “shuffles back/forth” faster, furious the better. The pause or reversal of motion gives me the feeling of instant stability. More you do it the more it feels like you are in control.

Okay, if you are a total beginner try this and let me know if it works or not. You experts/advanced/intermediate idlers, I know you will have some comments on this. Maybe your first idling method/technique/experience was different. Maybe you got it right away. Maybe you want to show off what you know about the “perfect” idling method. All good.

My next discussion, after we get beginner feedback is the INTERMEDIATE LEVEL of IDLING. I guess I didn’t get to the other 2 levels of IDLING, but I want to jump to the finish like a know-it-all. Let’s let the new people catch up. Right.

…slam

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15

TWIST

Anybody still stuck “not being able to idle”?
Met a few riders today and they told me they gave up on idling.
So, I gave them a few points, but I didn’t want to tell them everything.

a.) Grab hold of something.
b.) Rock back and forth.
c.) “let go”

After about 20 minutes, I couldn’t stay silent.
I yelled at them:
TWIST, TWIST, TWIST
What do you mean they asked? Just try it!!!
One guy twisted in the “middle” of the idle, and he “spun” like a top, then fell.
Other guy twisted at the end of the idle(I think at front) and drove his shoulder right into the ground. We were on grass.
Third guy did it right. He twisted into “opposite direction” of the second guy. Bingo it worked.

Now, I am not going to tell you exactly which way. You gotta try it for yourself. “IF” you care you will try different things and you will find the solution.
Also, if you have bmx experience you already know what I am talking about, because it’s done when attempting a “still stand”.

…slam

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Yes, twisting is vital. Sometimes feels a bit like dancing (though I‘m certainly doing better on the uni than on the dance floor).

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I’ve been practicing idling a lot the last couple weeks, and I’ve made some pretty good progress especially the last couple days. I’d attribute a pretty good portion of my progress to switching to practicing on a 20" unicycle… I’ve spent weeks and weeks trying my best on the 26", but I only made very minor gains. I feel like I pick it up 10x quicker on the 20"

Aside from wheel size, I’ve found I had to learn to get used to stalling before entering an idle. I would keep trying to enter an idle while I still had some forward momentum and end up falling forwards a bunch. After I got better at that it was mostly just learning to keep the wheel under me while idling.

Also found myself doing better with this advice :+1: Learning how and which way to twist will come with practice

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MrHydra,
Keep at it. Yes, I forgot that just “stopping” or “pausing” is a maneuver in itself.
It’s all about applying “reverse” foot pressure to the pedal.
Not just a gentle subtle force, but sometimes literally a “stand up” on one pedal kind of action.

Learning to apply “heavy force” on the down pedal not only helps to learning idling, but also when you are riding offroad and on bumpy/blind terrain. The pedaling action is very slow and almost 1/4 or 1/2 turn of the wheel at a time. You pedal, pause & balance or correct,…repeat. However, there is no rhythm and you have to really learn how to react “throw you body” if needed at a moments notice. In fact, it’s all reaction. This is where idling develops those pause, reverse reflexes.

Merely, riding forward on a unicycle is just “merely riding forwards”. There is no additional balance or skill that you will learn except possibly efficiency or a smooth/perfect pedaling action(if you are even aware that it needs to improve). Most beginners (I’m no exception) are just so happy to pedal and be able to ride the unicycle. I think this is where the unicycle skill/desire “fork in the road” happens. Keep riding. Go faster longer, bigger wheel…etc. Or…become obsessed with control, terrain, tricks,…etc. I’ve fallen into the latter rabbit hole. Obsessed with the basics, technique and tricks. Don’t care about distance, speed or wheel size.

Anyways, do not be afraid to put all your weight down on the pedal to reverse. The more you practice the more instinctive and reflexive it will become. This may be a boring subject for most but it’s these “little dynamics” that are often overlooked, becomes “some people” are born with it and don’t even know they do it. The rest of us when we get stuck on a skill or trick, need to work on the small details that add up.

…slam

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Slam, the way you explain it makes me itch to try idling again. Naturally in the first few years of riding uni, I gave it a try. But even after several hours, I just couldn’t idle without holding a pole/ lantern. I possibly practiced the wrong way thinking I needed to sway with the bottom foot, while the upper stays in place.
Now that I have a son of 3 I cant spend so much time on the uni. Only a few hours in the weekends, as my wife works when I dont. Maybe I should sell my kids :slight_smile:
So the time I have I spend on riding 8-10km on respectively the 24, 26, 29 or like today my 32”. Occasionally I even do 10K with my trials and just tiding in town. Easy to mount and to ride slowly. Also trying to come to a standstill and then to the make a few hops.
I might give idling another try, as I agree it improves balancing.

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Yes, you were only 50% wrong on that thinking and technique. I’m sure other’s have tried and struggled. So, now let’s try the opposite.

  1. Yes, keep weight on the bottom foot, but still be “active” in braking and reversing the wheel at the end points of the idle. This will feel like you are kinda “stomping”. This should be instinctive as long as you remember that this foot will resist the motion.

  2. Use “top foot” to “guide” the fore/aft movement of the wheel.

Don’t forget they both work “together” in synch.
Caution: since the top foot is “on top” the weight of your whole leg “wants to press down” on that pedal. So, you must “hold it back”. Learn to carefully shuffle that top foot back/forth from like 1 o’clock to 11 o’clock.

I had a lot more information to share, but I think this is enough for now. Give it a try and report back.

…slam

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