Mark, could you also define “happier person” in the context of an atheistic worldview? As a believer in God, I’m curious how an atheist would define this. Are you talking emotionally happy, ‘the good life’ (happiness in the deeper sense used in Greek philosophy), or something else?
Ahhh, now we’re getting somewhere.
Believing in god is USEFUL. Perhaps it is. Perhaps a person could live a better life by having a belief in god carry them in hard times. I agree.
…and I have a confession. In dire times, I have prayed. It never brought back someone from the dead. It didn’t save a young girl.
…but sometimes thoughts for a loved one who passed need to go somewhere …sometimes you need someone to bargain with in dire times.
A tool. Yes.
You can call it god it you like.
Call me a believer? No.
And if you don’t watch out, you karma will run over your dogma…
Your karma ran over your mom’s dogma…
Have Dave (Uni57) and Hindu Dave (GILD–namaste) seen the light?
Brother dave: It just occured to me to post the lyrics to a wonderful song called “INSTANT KARMA” by an equally wonderful singer, John Lennon. It is apropos.
INSTANT KARMA
(John Lennon)
Instant Karma’s gonna get you
Gonna knock you right on the head
You better get yourself together
Pretty soon you’re gonna be dead
What in the world you thinking of
Laughing in the face of love
What on earth you tryin’ to do
It’s up to you, yeah you
Instant Karma’s gonna get you
Gonna look you right in the face
Better get yourself together darlin’
Join the human race
How in the world you gonna see
Laughin’ at fools like me
Who in the hell d’you think you are
A super star
Well, right you are
Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Well we all shine on
Ev’ryone come on
Instant Karma’s gonna get you
Gonna knock you off your feet
Better recognize your brothers
Ev’ryone you meet
Why in the world are we here
Surely not to live in pain and fear
Why on earth are you there
When you’re ev’rywhere
Come and get your share
Well we all shine on
Like the moon and the stars and the sun
Yeah we all shine on
Come on and on and on on on
Yeah yeah, alright, uh huh, ah --END
Billy
“I believe in love and I live my life accordingly
But I choose to let the mystery be” --Raphael of New Jersey
Hindu Dave (Namaste GILD) and Dave (Uni57) have seen the light!!!
Wow!! Hindu Dave (Namaste GILD) and Dave (Uni57) have seen the light!!!
Billy
“I believe in love and I live my life accordingly
But I choose to let the mystery be” --Raphael of New Jersey
I’m not hindu.
You can search these fora. I’ve often explained the sense/definition in which I use NAMASTE! as a salutation at the end of my posts and I’ve always spelt the word ‘god’ used in that definition with a lower-case g.
Even when I started capitalising and punctuating.
Ask me about the bonehead in the Nedbank in Nelspruit sometime while we’re out on a ride.
Y’know, about the only time I call out god’s name is when I injure myself with a hand-tool.
most days
fill
I definitely believe in God. God is more than half of my life!
Brother Dave,
You shall deny me twice more before the cock crows…
!Namaste!
Maestro, there are some things about your private life that I really don’t need to know. Handtools? The mind boggles.
And the same goes for you Billy.
Really…, this is a family forum!!
Billythemountain- I accidentaly made myself sound as though i was refering to god when i said i was happier now that i stopped believing (in reference to your question as to what god i stopped believing in). I don’t believe in god, and suppose i never have- although i was bought up in a pretty strict catholic family.
I meant to describe that the ‘me’ trying to believe and justify that belief was not nearly as happy as the me that recognises my lack of belief.
Do you think it possible that religion might just not work for certain types of people? The same i suppose could be said about love. It’s not that on the whole it does not exist- but for some people they just do not experience it.
Maybe i just need to expose myself to some different belief systems until i find one i can wholly believe in. I agree with many of the aspects of religion as for their merit for advising human behavior etc, but never believe in the overall idea (God)
As to how i define ‘happier’- no bloody idea. Everyday experiences give me more pleasure. Happier in that i don’t judge myself on bases that i personally do not agree with to try and appease some omnibeing. I percieve my life to have more meaning.
from wikipedia
[I]The happy life is thought to be one of excellence; now an excellent life requires exertion and does not consist of amusement. If Eudaimonia, or happiness, is an activity in accordance with excellence, it’s reasonable that it should be in accordance with the highest excellence, and will be that of the best thing in us."
Aristotle, "Nicomachean Ethics" [/I]
The fact that i am putting in more effort in my life than ever, and that this effort is rewarding suggests, in reference to the quote, that my life is happier.
Don’t assume that because i am an Atheist i have no interest in religion. It has been one of my favourite subjects over the last two years. It has shaped the world as well as those people who have shaped the world. Unlike many religious people though, i like to learn about things i do not believe in- CoughEvolutioncough.
Mark
This is a misunderstanding of expressions… handtools, to me, are hammers, screwdrivers, pliers, etc. I have the rare talent of precision thumb-bashing, finger-stabbing and skin-pinching on even the most common household tasks: installing a shelf, repairing a faucet, etc. I have yet to injure myself with a paintbrush but I’m sure I’ll find a way …and god will hear her name called out when I do.
‘the god in me salutes the god in you’
–GILD the Believer
Mark,
It matters not whether you ever believed. I’m still wondering what is this GOD like that you don’t believe in. Is it Supreme Reality? Is it George Burns? Is it atman? Is it the god in me and you that Dave “namaste” never fails to name?
I pray daily that everyone experiences love.
Maybe you are on to something here…
Good for you! GOD would never take that from you.
Atheism IS your religion. Have you read Illusions, by Richard Bach?
Billy
It’s Lemmy.
(Ask Harper to name the movie.)
Apart from that, the only other thing we know is that this individual resides in the detail.
Which includes the shift key.
I have not nearly read as much as i would like to- i’ll add that book Billy to my post exam reading list (only 5 more hours of school to go ever!)
the god that i do not believe in
- a being/ presence that is responsible for creation
- a figure which asks for human subservience
- a figure which knows all
- a figure that judges humans in an afterlife based on their actions, and consequently chooses the fate of their souls
- a being that can, but never does intervene in processes in the world as we percieve it.
Maybe i need to look into the Indus religions because all the semetic root ones (christianity, islam, judaism) seem to adhere to the ideas mentioned above.
Gild- can you reccomend some books that have shaped your spirituality?
Mark
You believe in the soul? I’m not sure I believe in the soul as a separable entity from the body. I mean, I’ve had “religious experiences” that provide me evidence of God, but I haven’t seen any evidence for the existence of the soul.