As it was posted by members of the community in reference to an F bomb that Obie dropped on the Rocks vs Dogbone air pillow.
I wonder what are you ( individuals who feel we should filter or not feel it is appropriate to use certain language) sheltering your child from that the occasional f bomb is going to destroy? Surely it is better to explain the meaning and frustration that the word represents and not to simply censor it. An 11 year old child (age is irrelivent) has heard much worse in this day and age. For some reason Sexuality and “foul” Language remain aspects of our culture that we fear children will learn. Violence on the other hand is a mainstay of western americanized culture. I cant look on the news without seeing someone shot or lighting them self on fire anymore.
Personally I dont think the comment in question was justified by any means, but I also do not feel that censorship will do anything to helping shelter children. Afterall isnt the point of rasing children to teach them about their children social enviroment and how to interact with it.
if you shelter you kids from all the profanity of life and dont explain it to them it will become taboo and later they will seek it behind your back without any advice to work with.
as far as i’m concerned, this is not a parenting-based discussion
the potential damage here is to the sport
i can’t blame parents if they want to be able to just ‘give the parenting thing a break while the kid is surfing the net for unicycle stuff’
there r more than enough videos on MTV that will give them an opportunity to discuss issues like profanity
(not too many that will let them discuss music, but that’s another discussion )
dont think i quite agree with your ‘lack of education’ sentiment there dave
lack of vocab?
definately
a modern day education is not nearly as wide in scope as one of yesteryear
an exceptionally well educated science person may not be the world most erudite speaker/writer
that doesn’t make him any less educated in his field
would u consider changing your ‘lack of education’ to ‘lack of vocab’ just before leaving on your ‘grand tour’?
yeah but, he says, knowing that he really should just let it go but somehow not being able to walk away from this one just yet…
vocabulary is learned during the education process
a functional vocabulary (‘fundamental’ if u will)
and right there could be the gray area that could scupper any attempts at reaching agreement on this issue
the abillity to express your irritation, aggravation and displeasure without using the ubiquitous F-word may (or may not) be considered to be a higher vocabulatory function than just ‘functional’
to test this against the reasonable man u’ll first have to get past all the rabid feminists picketing the use of the phrase ‘reasonable man’ and then establish the level of vocab used by that ‘reasonable man’
in our daytime TV culture, expressing anything in more than three syllables does seem to smack of showing-off
the ‘reasonable man’ may well find that trying to figure his way around the F-word is a linguistic arabesque best left to hard core linguists
we’re on the same side
we’re just arguing the details now
i basically responded to your original post because i thought ‘lack of education’ might be slightly inflamatorially insulting
True, but it would be nice if we could keep those “teachable moments” to a minimum. If “it takes a village to raise a child” it also “takes a village to pervert a child”
I’ve said it before here that I hate it when I hear language that is inappropriate for the particular public setting. If you want to use profanities, vulgarities, cursing, swearing, and such within the confines of your friends and acquaintances where such language is welcome go right ahead. But most public settings where that kind of language spills over, both intentionally or unintentionally, my judgment is it is inappropriate.
So lets not teach children, That sounds like a plan I want to instill on a future generation.
You argue that vulgar language crates perverted behavior I would like to see your justification for this statement. This is an illustration of the tendency of means- end analyses to condemn what appears perfectly natural or normal sexuality.
But as you suggest we should not question norms, and please lets not teach children anymore than we have to, we dont want an akward moment now do we.
I knew I shouldn’t have posted right before I head out for the day.
Chex,
You are drawing too much out of my opening statement. I didn’t say vulgar language creates perverted behavior, or if I inferred it, that was not my point.
I’m just trying to say that certain behaviors or actions are inappropriate in public settings.
Maybe more later, I’m off for the rest of the day and won’t be back until after we get home from the Sponge Bob movie tonight.
This could end up being a hot topic which is good. I am VERY anti-censorship and VERY pro-restraint. I have met many of the people personally who post in these fora. Some are parents, some are not. The parents that I have met exhibit tremendous restraint in the public arena knowing that there are others who are offended with language used inappropriately. The non-parents in these fora exercise restraint only to a slightly lesser extent and admirably so in what has become such a large community. The parents, interestingly enough, can become very colorful very quickly in the right setting, that is, the one they consider appropriate.
Jagur’s and Gild’s points are well taken as well as your own. Eloquence in language does not exclude profanity or obscenity, they exist as part of it and can be used powerfully, passionately, and comically. UniBrier (who can, incidentally, color language like a rainbow in the right setting) makes an excellent counterpoint: know your audience.
Man, the political topics die down, and we get hit with the Marijuana thread and now this. I love this forum!
To me, the original argument seems to be, “we shouldn’t shelter our children from profanity because it’s very prevalent in the world and they should know what it means.” Is that right?
I believe that educating our children is a very important part of the responsibilities of being a parent. I feel that keeping children ignorant of the world they are going into is very irresponsible. Simply denying that profanity, sex, and violence exists will not change the fact that they do exist, and children need to realize that.
But there is a place for censorship in the home. My twelve-year-old is not going to watch ‘Gladiator,’ or 'Showgirls, or ‘Pulp Fiction.’ (For the record, those are my examples of violence, sex, and profanity.) Most media sensationalizes these things; shows them to be acceptible, even necessary, parts of life. That’s NOT the impression I want to give my children. And I won’t want my children reading internet forums where swearing is the norm either.
“Swearing is bad and you shouldn’t do it. But let’s watch a movie where the “moral good guy” curses constantly.” What kind of mixed message does that send?
EXACTLY! Very well said Paco! In addition, while teaching children that they do exist we should also be teaching them the skills they need to cope with them.
I am a parent and my language is not always what it should be. I do, however, try to exercise restraint in the presence of people who may be offended, and I am particularly careful when in the presence of other people’s children, unless I know that my language usage is similar to what they would already be hearing at home. My two (14 and 4 respectively) know that there are certain words that mommy is allowed to say (especially when driving in heavy traffic ) that they are NOT allowed to say. They will, however, be allowed to say them once they turn 18. It’s worked for me up to now.
this is a good discussion but i wonder where it is going. do we want the moderators to control the use of language through negative reinforcement? i say no. we make up this forum and it is our responsibility to keep it clean.
rather than hoping that gilby will punish those who utter an occasional curse, we should, as we have been doing, just post a reminder that some people who browse dont want to see those words. i think that, for regular users at least, a correction by a veteran poster will set them straight. while personally i am not bothered by traditional “bad words,” it does bother me when “gay” or “retarded” are used as insults.
since children do browse and some parents prefer that they not be exposed to the “f bomb” and such, it is not our place to say that kids should be exposed to it and therefore use it as we see fit. in my opinion, i think that no censorship for children is a bad idea. A child wont be able to understand the implications of the bad side of society (in this case, profanity) and should be protected from it until he/she can. if i child saw a beheading in Iraq on tv or online, it would have a much worse effect than if an adult saw it because the child would not understand that this is a rare incident in another country because of political reasons that are out of the range of understanding by the child. since children browse this forum, we must do our best to restrict the use of profanity.
it is understandable that a new user might not be aware of our forum’s unwritten code of conduct and therefore a mistake can be forgiven.
Kevin was completely out of line when he posted. He has been posting long enough that he should know the rules. Also, he was out of line by thinking that since he is a regular poster that he could get away with it.
Csting my mind back to when I was younger (pre-teen) I knew that there were some words that whilst I might hear them at football matches, I was NOT allowed to use myself and as I got into my teens and moved to high school and the more robust playground speak of the teenager, knew that it would be wrong to use certain terms and words at home.
Nobody sheltered me from these words, it was just made quite clear that I wasn’t to use them myself. After all nowadays I know where to get drugs, I just don’t do it. I know how to break the speed limit, I know how to shoplift…
SArah
I still don’t swear in front of my mum, but might do with my dad:-) hes the one who took me to football.
First off, the reason I brought this tread up was more for my own personal gain, rather than to be pro curse words, or anti swearing. I have been studying childrens television programming lately and have found that parents in contemperary america seem to shelter thier kids to the point at which they do not give explanation for. Somethings are just wrong and you should not be disscused. For example this used to be the cultural norm with eveloution. It also used to be the case that you taught children through abuse, if you beat a kid enough he’ll learn what is right soon enough. I am glad to see that both of these are no longer the social norms, but I am interested in how these dynamics continue into todays society, through debate over profanity, violence, and sexuality.
I agree with the view that self restraint is good for this fora and that using inappropriate language for the sake of using it, is not very tasteful.
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