donB, although I can understand what you are saying, but i disagree with you. If i see someone doing a unispin or a cool unicycling move, i dont think you have to ask permission to do it.
same with if something, whats wrong with you building it yourself? And if you havent patented it, theres nothign stoping that person from selling it and making a profit.
If you dont want anyone to copy, dont show it !
this is probably my GNU nature coming out…
I think he was implying that there was atleast moral obligation to ask before you steal someone else’s intellectual property. Legally unless the owner has a patent and your design is suitabley similar and they find out and they decide to take you to court over it then you won’t have a problem. I don’t think he’s offering his advice to stop someone getting sued, it’s just common courtesy to ask before borrowing, and this applies to IP as much as more tangible property.
The use of words such as “need” “MUST” & “unless he gives you permission to do otherwise” do not even come close to “should”, which would would imply an obligation. DonB’s forceful language implied requirement.
Here is what i was searching for:
even as a moral obligation it seems silly to me.
I could work for a year to get the money to buy a really cool car, or i could work for a year and come up with an amazing unicycle design, it’s ok to steal the later but not the former? Why do you you think we have copyright and patent laws?
Brendan, please know that I am not trying to make a moral judgement on you or anyone else. I don’t know you, and am trying to make my point without seeming too harsh on any one particular person. Thak you for your willingness to contribute to this forum, and your honesty in questioning the rest of us.
However, your comment:
This is what I hear from other magicians all the time. Another way of saying it is, “I don’t see the harm in making my own version of the illusion.” Please realize, the creator of something has spent countless hours, as well as finances, designing and building his/her model. By us stepping in and “stealing” that idea, we are basically saying, “To hell with you. I WANT one for myself, and I’m going to GET one. I don’t care about your intellectual property. I WANT one, and I will HAVE one.”
Example: An aquianitance of mine saw a famous illusionist on television perform a great illusion. My friend said, “I like that, and since I know how it’s done, I am going to build one for myself.” He did, and performed it. Later on, when the famous illusionist saw my friend perform it, he questioned him about where he obtained the rights to build and perform it. My friend gave the lame excuse about “seeing it on t.v.”, to which the illusionist explained about his own copyright on that item, and asked my friend to stop performing it. It was the illusionist’s property, morally and legally.
Some books are printed in limited runs, so as to keep them rare, and therefore of a higher value. Simply because I have read that book, doesn’t give me the right (legally or morally) to print another copy for myself. It devalues the item itself, and it’s wrong.
In conclusion, I didn’t mean to start a war of words with this thread. I simply want each of us to think about something: If you created an amazing unicycle, that no one else had ever seen or ridden, would you want others to run out and make their own copies of it? No, you would want it for your own. Later on, if YOU chose to distribute “copies” of it, that is your choice. If you choose NOT TO, by all means, that is your complete right too.
Finally, it really is an honorable thing to do, if you see an amazing trick on a unicycle, honor that rider and ask if he would mind if you tried learning it. 99% of the time, that person will be so flattered that you asked they will say YES. If they choose to say no, respect that creator’s rights and learn something else.
Respect each other, whether in the unicycle community, or in life in general. The world would be a much better place.
I’ve always said that ethics is just plain common sense. The problem is, common sense isn’t always so common anymore.:o
DonB!
Hmmm… I think there might be a big difference between a really amazing magic trick, and the simple idea of making a unicycle with a smaller wheel…
And I don’t think that its appropriate for everyone to go ask Shaun J. or whoever every time they want to learn a new variation on a crank flip. Should I ask Kris Holm every time I ride on a dirt trail?
I don’t think Gymnasts or Figure Skaters ask each other permission each time someone invents a new flip or whatever… They know that when they invent a new trick, they have a limited time to exploit it before everyone else is doing it.
Someone can get a copyright on a book… Can someone copyright a unispin?
Now… if someone actually came up with a unique idea for a unicycle, like say that scissor lift one, then yes, I think one should ask permisson before copying it… Or, if they had something somewhat unique that they were making money off of (Like Leo’s Pizza Cutter uni)… But something as simiple as changing the size of the wheel?
Keld
I think if you see someone else’s idea, and you build/make it. I think it would be fine as long as you don’t sell it and are not trying to make a profit off of their idea.
well in my mind yes it would be fine to steal the later, because you havent taken anyones property off them. Although if they’re are patents and copyrights, i would only say yes if you had no intention of making a profit out of it.
However i am very against software patents. But for other reasons.
@DonB : I see where you are coming from, but i still don’t agree with you. Just because someone created something, does not mean that no one else can do it. I’m sorry if you thought i was offending you i was not (or not trying to at least), i simply don’t agree with your point of view.
Because you like getting software without paying for it perhaps? With no software patents, there is no money, with no money there is no huge development and testing program. Sure this is all good if you’re in to computing, you want to use linux or whatever, mod it yourself a little maybe, but for the average user on the street who wants to just walk in to a shop and buy something that works, who has no idea how to write code, or even download and install a program this is a poor state of affairs.
so you wouldnt mind adobe, microsoft and all the other big software companies, putting out millions of patents in order to make all free software stop ?
and the average user can allready go down the street and buy things. IT companies allready making massive money. They dont need to render free software illegal.
Everyone here i bet enjoys using VLC and other free codecs, without having to pay. Software patents come in and puts an end to that. Software patents will put an end to inovation. And can you imagine the mess? How many patents would openoffice have to pay ?
Oh sure if you work for microsoft yeah go for it, if not go out and protest.
http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/en/m/intro/index.html
No software patterns doesn’t mean free. Since when has that been true? Hey wait i’m gonna claim my windows vista without patents FREE edition - LOL.
Wait, you can only patent stuff that is your IP, how could microsoft patent other people’s software?
lol i never said they would patent other people’s software, but they will patent ideas, but knowing how they play they will definately start patenting everything they make.
And then every little company that comes out with a new and novel idea, they’ll just copy it and then patent it. Especially open source ideas. Cause can you really see an individual going into a lawsuit against microsoft?
Normal patents are hard to defend allready for small companies and big companies allready cheat, with software patents it can only get worst.
This thread went just a little bit off topic.
Now now children, toys back in the pram…
The point is that allowing the big companies that drive the innovations in the software sector to patent their ideas is a very bad thing. It will make expensive things more expensive, and everything that you take for granted as being able to do for free (like playing MP3’s for example, or watching Video) will suddenly, and legally, be charged for to make the quick buck. Imagine having to pay £10 to download iTunes because some chump invents the next big audio codec and, through software patenting, charges EVERYONE to use it. At the moment, you have a choice: Pay money for MS Office, Windows, Photoshop and get great features and support. Or hunt around and use OpenOffice, Ubuntu, and GIMP, for free with less features and less support. With software patenting this choice disappears, you will HAVE to pay.
Loose.
Stealing Ideas
Respect each other, whether in the unicycle community, or in life in general. The world would be a much better place.
I’ve always said that ethics is just plain common sense. The problem is, common sense isn’t always so common anymore.:o
DonB!
[/QUOTE]
I Agree DonB
I think if you see someone else’s idea, and you build/make it. I think it would be fine as long as you don’t sell it and are not trying to make a profit off of their idea.
surfer1024
[/QUOTE]
I also Agree surfer1024
So where does that leave me and uni.com? I’ve had in the frame disc for years! next the suspension. So none of this is my invention, just a new application even if the first. So Making of someone elses Idea for personal use is OK but not for profit. So for the unicyclist who is not skilled enough to make there own gadgets and modifications will have to do without these advancements? So who would we ride with if they could not purchase quality uni/muni’s?
