UNICON XV MUni Race Results & Uni Setups

This thread has turned into a great discussion! After this I’ll post the course data from my Garmin device but this one’s going to be long enough…

There doesn’t have to be running allowed. People have pieced together the original logic for this in this thread. We ride unicycles. Part of riding unicycles is a strange desire, on our part, to do things the hard way. So in our track races, it is required to ride the whole distance, including all the way across the finish line. This equates to riding more than 101m in a 100m race. In all but the longer races, falling off is a disqualification. We make those races hard on purpose.

My preferred examples of this philosophy are the High Jump and Long Jump. We do it on a unicycle. This means we don’t sprawl in a dirt pit, or land on our backs on a crash pad, we have to land RIDING. That puts major limits on the heights and distances, but it keeps it an all-unicycle challenge.

All forms of IUF unicycle racing are derived from our experience on the track. We started with the same set of rules, then have made modifications to suit those events. I think our biggest “improvement” when it comes to MUni racing is that we’ve removed restrictions on the equipment you can ride. Riders are free to ride whatever they want. Of course this puts the onus on event hosts to give accurate descriptions of race courses, so people can train for it and decide which unicycles/cranks to bring. This has often been difficult to get due to last-minute course plans or changes (and I’m not even talking about this year).

The base intent is that it be a unicycle race, but this gets less realistic as courses get more and more extreme. Also as they get longer. Since even an “easy” XC course may have some technical or steep parts, it ididn’t make sense for riders to be required to ride everything. So why not ‘anything goes’?

The origin of this may have been from the MUni race at Unicon X. Very large numbers of riders hit the course at a time, and the sandy uphill areas became mayhem. Dismounted riders were cutting off people who were attempting to ride these short sections. Other dismounted riders were thoughtlessly blocking the way, oblivious to the riders behind them. It was decided that dismounted riders should yield to riders who are mounted (may not pass mounted riders). But how to enforce that with a group of several hundred excited riders who speak a mix of languages? It requires something that can be explained relatively easily. NO RUNNING, and NO PASSING PEOPLE WHO ARE RIDING IF YOU’RE NOT. It works.

However, with today’s longer races, the difference between walking and running would be less significant. Please note that running is allowed as an option. The Rulebook version I have shows the changes from 2008 to 2010, and this part doesn’t show as a change. Section 2.20.6.1. I guess this part only applies to Time-Trial type races though.

I don’t know about you, but when I go out for a 1 hour+ MUni ride, it’s not a MUni race. That is not the same animal.

The 10m thing has been taken out in the 2010 rules. Is the 2010 Rulebook published yet? I have only a draft version. Never saw a complete printed copy at Unicon. For the Unicon XV XC and Downhill, the 10m rule was definitely impractical, and Connie told me it would not be enforced (the rule was optional). But I don’t know if that was communicated to the riders very well.

A competition organizer can change a course for whatever reason he/she wants. The description in the program book, which obviously was written for the Tony Melton version, gave a good idea of what the expected course was, and was enough to tell me I should at least have a brake. But as usual, distances and elevations were sketchy at best. I’ve always tried to work with organizers to get those details published as early as possible. However sometimes, courses have to be changed at the last minute even if it’s not by accident. At the 2008 USA convention in South Dakota, every MUni course was changed on the day-of due to bad weather the night before.

It was hard. That’s not just me saying that. What do you mean, anyway? Because somebody rides something means it’s not hard? You have an odd set of perceptions. I have to ride with Beau Hoover from time to time. We have a saying --“Just because Beau rode it doesn’t mean it isn’t impossible.”

I’m not sure how those events were run. Usually in the past I’ve seen them run at various levels, and switch back and forth. Top riders don’t need to start jumping at a level lower than they feel good about. Things might need to be run differently to accommodate large numbers of competitors, but anything that eliminates unnecessary jumps by experts would clearly save time.

Course design is a key component to a good race. Over the years I’ve seen great ones and bad ones. All three courses at Unicon XV were great. Obviously many riders were disappointed in the DH, but it was a very fast course, and still had its challenges.

Unicycling is not a decent means of transport. The disadvantages greatly outweigh the advantages over things like bikes. In today’s approach to unicycle racing, we seem to still keep that in mind.

No. We don’t have more that two gears, we can’t coast, and we’re not connected to the UCI. :slight_smile:

Not even walking is allowed in Uphill under current rules. We’re still oldschool on that event, in that the intent is to UNICYCLE the hill, whatever it is. That said, I will remind people that event organizers can always make up their own events, including variations on the strictly defined ones in the rulebook. Like a race up Mt. Diablo. That would have to allow dismounts to be realistic!

Here we go again. Did somebody (one of the organizers) say the course was changed to accommodate lower level riders? It was never made clear whether the course was changed for safety, to make it possible for more people to actually ride it, or due to bad communications. If it was changed deliberately, it was probably for safety but I’ll leave it to the organizers to confirm that or not.

There was one spot on the XC race course that had a conveniently located “chicken line”. Though it probably would have been faster to walk straight down that steep bit, I found riding the alternate route much more enjoyable.

But in reality, these races are usually going to be run on existing trails, where building your own trails is usually a big no-no. If it’s an open area where various lines can be taped off this can work, but mostly we will be stuck with what the terrain or trails allow. Viable chicken lines will probably be a rare treat.

Not as steep? It’s an uphill race! But next time I’m sure it will be different. :slight_smile:

This is one of the other motivations behind the current rules. But has Ken already mentioned, much of this has to do with designing a course that’s appropriate to the type of event. Too easy and it doesn’t contain enough challenges. Too hard and you might cut way back on the amount of riding people do.

I think I’ve found a new quote for my sig line! :smiley:

This definition was added as it was clear we needed to draw the line with some kind of simple, easy-to-see definition of the upper limit of “walking”. But my 2010 Rulebook draft shows this sentence as being removed, which could be a problem for future races if riders are limited to walking…

Yes, you could. And what a pain in the butt it would be. And the people who crossed the finish line first might not be the winners. And it would be extremely difficult to settle on how much penalty for what. We’ve thought about it, and nobody’s ever decided to try to do it.

You don’t have to. If running/walking are allowed, they are legitemate forms of locomotion for that race.

A good point. Though I had to resist running on the downhills in Lap 1 of the XC (it’s hard to slow to a walk), this was not an issue for me on the uphills. Though I could have run a bit of it, my fitness level would have me walking most of the steeps anyway. That’s not somebody else’s fault; had I been in better shape I’d be better able to ride or run them. But I walked quite a bit on the XC (and the Marathon).

Yes, in China as described above, and at other events where there were too many riders on too narrow a path, and/or riders not yielding after their second dismount. So new rules were drafted to address these problems.

Statistics show that 80% of statistics offered in online forums are completely made up. :stuck_out_tongue:

I explained earlier why it would have been a big mess to try to change again after the course was changed to the green markings. I know it was in the middle of a very long post (like this is) but it’s there. It would have been anything but simple.

AS IT STANDS:

  • For XC racing, the IUF rules allow a choice of walking or running rules, with penalties for violations to be determined by the hosts.
  • For Uphill racing you still are expected to ride (or hop) the whole thing. You can allow dismounts or not, depending on the type of course. Multiple tries can also optionally be allowed.
  • For Downhill racing, dismounts are allowed but riders are not permitted to run. Also there are detailed notes about yielding to mounted riders. This applies more to group-start races, not TT-type ones.

But remember, hosts can always make up their own events if they want, which include variations on those types of event.

So, if your eyes aren’t bleeding from my previous post, here’s my Garmin data from the XC and Marathon races. The thing was set to US measurements, but I’ll calculate metric numbers from those. NOTE: GPS elevation data, at least on my device, is fairly sketchy so those numbers are approximate:

The Cross Country race was about 12 km (7.5 miles) with a total climb of about 1128 meters (3700’). That’s about 925 meters per lap. My max. speed was 22.5 km/h (14 mph). My min. speed was pitiful.

The Marathon race was about 43.45 km (27 miles) with a total climb of about 980 meters (3210’). At about 802.5 meters per lap, note that this was less than the XC. My max. speed was 27.5 km/h (17.1 mph). The gusting wind made me hesitant to go faster on during breaks in the wind, and without brakes, there was no going fast on the steep downhills! My minimum speed was zero. More than once, headwinds brought me to a standstill!

I was proud to win my age group (36+) but I would have been a distant second if Tom Holub didn’t have a flat on lap 1. My understanding is that Jim Sowers sacrificed his unicycle so Tom could continue racing!

If you looked at the unicon website the 2010 rulebook was there.

I did see a lot of printed 2010 versions doing unicon! Did you sleep?

:thinking: 925meters per lap?

Yeah, I wouldn’t trust Garmin elevation numbers. I’ve gone on rides where the elevation/climbing data was off by 1,000-2,000 feet on my Garmin device. I usually upload my garmin data to mapmyride.com to see a much better estimate of elevation/climbing data.

Yes, I had a complete explosive blowout (blew out at least 10 inches of tube) when starting the climb on lap 2. I took my unicycle apart and waited for salvation. Eventually Jimbo, who was on his ungeared 29er, came around. He offered me his uni, but I didn’t want to do the whole thing ungeared (and I knew I’d never catch Foss that way), so we swapped out his tube into my uni. I was probably nearly 10 minutes ahead of Jimbo at the time my tube blew, and it took probably 10 minutes to swap his tube out and pump it up. My second lap took 1:06, about 25 minutes longer than my other laps. I think I could have done 2:42.

Jimbo was proud that he’d ridden the first lap and a quarter without stopping; he probably wasn’t going to finish on that uni, anyway. I should give him my silver.

All the printed ones I saw were only sections, such as Freestyle-only rules for the Freestyle judges. But I didn’t ask, so they were probably around.

And yes, I slept fine, thanks!

Oops. I corrected that, but must have messed up with my edit. Make that 925 feet per lap. :slight_smile:

I don’t know about that, I finished in 3:05! I was just happy to be finished.

I’m tempted. Not sure if it’s possible to fit it in around the Mongolia tour though…it’s going to be a pretty long expensive trip!

And that is the root of the problem. How do you apply rules written for races lasting from a few seconds to several minutes, to one lasting over 1-3hrs?

That was a result of inadequate seeding or starting area to spread out riders. At Unicon XV, we seeded riders and also made sure the start areas were wide enough for the fittest riders to get ahead first. Part of racing is also about getting to a prime position before the track narrows…it often means having to sprint at the start of a race. I’ll refer to the 1997 MTB world cup on Mt Victoria again- the riders had to do several laps around a velodrome before heading up the 4WD track. The fastest riders were well spread before they hit the singletrack, but it was still advantageous to be at the front, at the cost of maxing out your HR at the start.

Again, racing has to reflect what people do. Because by definition we are trying to figure out who is the best/fastest. It would be inconsistent to have a world championship Cross-Country race that lasts 10min, when no one I know rides for 10min when they go Muni riding. Would you drive to the local trails, ride around for 10min and then head home?

It is there, buried in the website. I agree it was not well publicised, but we did send out an email that had the link to it. The 2010 IUF rulebook was finished and approved only a week before UNICON. There is a lot of work involved it the rulebook, and less time to work on it, as UNICON XV was less than 16 months after UNICON XIV.

That is complete nonsense! I do my grocery shopping on my unicycle (much faster than walking or running). I also organise a unicycle tour every year (there is no way I would have a walking tour that involved hundreds of km’s over 2wks). Lot’s of people commute on one wheel.

Saying that unicycling is not a decent means of transport because it is slower than bicycling is like saying that bicycling is not a decent means of transport because it is slower and disadvantaged compared to cars.

We are also slowly catching up to bikes in terms of speed- I don’t think we’ll ever get there because of the lack of coasting ability, but I don’t see why it won’t on average hit 80% bike speeds with lighter wheels, better body positions and more gears.

I think whilst unicycling is completely separate to bicycling…there are a lot of things we can learn from them. They have been doing this for a lot longer. What we should be doing is taking the best aspects from bike racing and applying it to unicycle races.

And we are developing along those lines. A few Unicons ago, drafting was seen as completely useless on a unicycle, now it plays a big part in unicycle road racing.

I was referring to the uphills in the XC course, not the Hillclimb event. That was run as a skills event, so I have no problem with the walking rule.

The Hillclimb event has a mention in the IUF rulebook. It can be run as a supersteep short climb that is about being able to stay on and ride up something as steep as possible. It is there to test riders skill levels.

It could also be run as an endurance type event. A long climb that is more easily rideable but has to be raced up. This has never been run at Unicon. It was my preference for this Unicon, but because I didn’t get to set the Hillclimb course- it became the former- a skill type event.

I would love to see the latter hillevent though. Either as a road race or MUni race. Have you ever seen the a Tour de France mountain stage? It’s exciting to watch the riders dueling it out- and they are not trying to demonstrate their skill in riding up something super-steep without falling off- it is more about endurance and speed.

hey folks,
what your discussing about :thinking:
as I know the best riders rode all the XC - they surely wouldn´t have been faster while running!
the next riders walk up or down some parts, for example i walk up while tom was riding up much faster and i was to exhausted to follow him even if allowed to run.
downhill i overtook tom again and so on and there was no problem we had a lot of fun doing this.
and maybe the last riders walk a lot of the track - but i am wondering whether there was any of the competitors who want or was able to run at this XC!?!

is there anyone who want to run there :thinking:
I mean, that is what it makes a good course and as long as we have good tracks /courses we don´t need other rules.
a perfect race track needs very few rules.
lets get more energie in the tracks than in rules!

@ken
i gave my schlumpf a long shower in TSB arena after “swimming”:stuck_out_tongue:
then i rinse water through the lubrication screw and dried it over night.
next morning i gave in a lot of grease which turned in a kind of sunmilk emulgating the rest of water. now i gave thin oil in the hub to rinse out the sunmilk and by and by replace it. no problems until now!
while reading this thread i wonder when do you sleep???
cheers jogi

@jogi
It’s not only a discussion about the Unicon course but about the walking rule in general.

In my opinion you can not adjust rules to the perfect courses out there. In fact you have to take the worst courses into considerations since it’s not possible to design a “perfect” course everywhere.

Wow, I ran outside to try to get photos when I heard but didnt know where you got blown off.

Don’t tell Florian…you’ll give him a peptic ulcer or something.

Did you jump in the water to save it? Did it float?

yes it floats, all my unis float, thats one of the first things you find out while living on a sailing boat;)

it was at the bridge where the floating crane lies, i came from direction new world and just before the bridge a guess blow me left and suddenly there were no bridge in front of me any more, so i jumped of but the schlumpf went over the pier.
I wanna wait until it floats to a ladder but when Nadine arrives she jumped in the sea with a loud “quiiiiik”:stuck_out_tongue: and saved the schlumpf from distress. there is a pic from her swimming with the schlumpf, i guess you will see next unimag.

i think there was no damage because it was just three days old and the bearings were pretty waterproof.
I ´ve some experiance with salt water contaminated bearings, the old Quax (splinted) are mostly good, but at most of the others it causes immediately dammage.

That would be awesome indeed, especially at the next Unicon. A road riding hill climb event(separate from the marathon). I think that would be a great event - especially in Italy.

At least Titanium doesn’t rust :stuck_out_tongue:

Well done Nadine!

I knew someone would end up in the water.

You’re right of course. I offered all that info mostly to explain the background & development of those rules. As the races get more “grueling” and as the equipment and riders change, so must the rules.

Exactly, which led to more information in the Rulebook about what’s needed for a workable race. But some of this came only after Unicon XIV, which still had racecourse problems. Sometimes this is due to the wrong person designing a course, and other times it’s due to last-minute changes in venue, etc.

Indeed. A secondary consideration in the Rulebook is also where to stop describing details and give course designers the benefit of the doubt. Leaning too far the first way results in 200-page rulebooks.

How about this question: Who drives to the local athletics track and does 15-second to 2-min. races around that? A few people, yes, but not so many unicyclists. How come they get something like half all the awards given out at a Unicon?

In other words, why can’t we have more events that reflect what we unicyclists do when we’re not competing, Like more MUni races? In 2008 at our NAUCC we had a 21 km (13 mile) MUni “Marathon” race in addition to the usual, shorter XC one. Also there was a technical challenge race, which was less about time and more about dismounts. So I’m not against a 10-min. MUni “sprint” along with longer events. :slight_smile:

There was an unfortunate delay in editing the draft. The rule changes were finished in January 2009, but editing them into the Rulebook (which can sometimes be complex) didn’t get done. I’ve volunteered to take this job back for the future.

It is. :smiley:
But I digress. I think we both get it.

Yes, the longer version was my idea too. I think I wrote pretty much everything that’s in the MUni section of the IUF Rulebook. Also I’m the one who originally suggested it and helped get it added to the program for Unicon IV. That and Coasting and Gliding.

I mention that to add credence to my offerings of background and explanations of those rules, and also because some people might find it interesting. In any case, we can probably work together on new proposals for the next round of rulebook updates.

That was probably true for this course, but another course may offer more or less advantage to running vs. walking. On this XC course I could definitely have saved some time by running the technical downhills. Except on the last lap, when my legs were so toasted I was grabbing trees all the way down! :stuck_out_tongue:

True, but you might be surprised how hard it can be to get good tracks. Even at Unicon XV with top riders very close to the venue, we had problems with making the “perfect” downhill (and maybe uphill?). We are still at a place where races may be held in less-than-perfect locations, and possibly designed by people with minimal MUni racing experience, so we try to offer as much information as possible without bogging down the rulebook. Beyond that, we hope the course designers will be in contact with experienced riders/racers to help them make a course that will work well for racing conditions.

BTW, my hat is off to you for your excellent performances in the “old guys” age group! Also can’t wait to see the pictures associated with your Schlumpf dunking and rescue!

There was an informal one offered at this Unicon, but it was basically right after the big marathon; bad timing. I did not attend, but I’d like to hear more about it! Yes, an event like that can be done as a road or MUni competition, and we encourage hosts to come up with new events. The hard part is usually to fit everything in, especially if there is an expectation for the “usual” events. I encourage future hosts to remember that MUni is not “usual”, the courses are always different, so it’s possible for the details and rules to be different as well.

My personal opinion is that we should trim down the time-intensive and facilities-intensive events, so we can have more time for outdoor, open events like road and MUni races, which are the direction the sport is going anyway. I think we should eliminate standard skills entirely, as well as some of the lamer track events like the 10m wheel walk and the slow race.

Will NAUCC be organized more in this fashion this year? I would love for more open/outdoor events focused on road/muni/distance.

Yes! For MUni, we will be running the standard XC, downhill and uphill races, as well as an untimed technical race on my favorite local trail (winners decided by fewest dismounts–tie breaker is going back up the same trail). There will also be several MUni fun rides during the week. For road events, in addition to the 10k and marathon, we’re planning a ~20k time trial, a pure hill climb (Mount Diablo, mentioned above), a criterium (location TBD), a rolling party ride in Berkeley with a thumping bicycle sound system, and a scenic big wheel ride in San Francisco along the waterfront to the Golden Gate. Flatland and street will also be on the waterfront in San Francisco.

Chaparral? I’ve ridden it with no dismounts. It is a great trail, which is why I tried adding a new challenge (high gear + 125’s).

corbin