Uni.5 cross country journey

The Uni.5 will start its cross country journey starting early next week. It should come into Nathan Hoover’s possession in Los Gatos, CA before Friday, 22 March. The (very loose) plan is for it to depart for Salt Lake City on 1 April. From there it should leave for Tulsa if Mark Stephens contacts me again or Norman, Oklahoma if not, by 8 April. It should leave there for Jackson Mississippi on 15 April and go to Marietta, Georgia on 22 April. On 29 April it will probably go to wherever in Florida Accord and his buddies are. The schedule is loose and by the time it gets across Dixie, the calendar will have changed, the stops probably being less than a week. It will then go up the eastern seaboard to Reading, PA or to the Unatics in NYC.
There may be another stop or two (David may drive it to Rochester or make some plan with Jeff Lutkus) before it goes to the TCUC in Minneapolis where it may make another long stop like the first one before it finally goes to Steve Howard in Idaho.

It will travel in a plywood crate that should require no packing material (or very little) and will be reusable. All participants should afix a sticker of some kind to the crate as a memento. Maybe they should put a sticker on the frame, too. Any spare hardware that seems useful to others may be deposited somewhere in the crate.

I took it to a workshop at North Bend today given by the Cotters and Irene Genelin. It was ridden by the Minneapolis crew and John Childs as well as several of the Panther Pride Demo Team. These were the first riders other than myself. Until that point, it had been standard free-mounted and ridden 40 miles forward by me. Now, it has been idled by Connie, ridden backward by several riders, Irene dragged the seat front and back, an 8 year old girl one-footed on it, a 13 year old boy wheel hopped and did a uni-spin, it was hopped, roll mounted, wheel walked, and jump mounted. I’ll NEVER take it someplace like that again…EVERYONE was better than me on my own machine. WAY too many people free-mounted it on the first try, too. The cool part was watching people ride it who had legs too short to ride a Coker. Those riders spent alot of time on it, too… interesting, that.

I checked the backlash again because I was concerned with my last measurement of 0.030" and it got banged around alot. Today I measured it at 0.018", less than ever. I rechecked it using a second dial indicator. Either I made a poor measurement at 14 miles or, more likely, the backlash is somewhat dependent on the position of all of the gears in the gear train. My measurements so far are:

0.020" at zero miles after assembly
0.030" at 14 miles
0.018" at 25 miles and after the workshop today

I would appreciate any participants with the ability to do so to check the gear backlash at the end of a 6" crank. Also, please check the wheel to see if it is true and whether the tire rubs the frame. If you replace the tire, I have included spare rubber gaskets that go between the frame and the frame tab connection which must necessarily be disconnected to change tires. Please feel free to put on any seat, pedals, and (aluminum only) cranks that you want. Please replace components carefully. The axle goes all the way through the hub so it can be set on a block on one side while a crank is smacked on with a plastic or wood mallet from the other without hurting it.

Ya all have fun now, ya hear?

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

Oh yes we will have fun! What perfect timing - several riders are arriving
here for Sea Otter next weekend who will be dying to try it out. We will try
to be good to it, and I’ll try to restrain Scot Cooper from taking it on too
wild offroad terrain. It might be hard to get it away from my son Beau - he
loves speed. I am really glad to hear it’s got 40 miles on it now and
survived idling, seat dragging, uni-spins etc.

I will definitely be sending it on on April 1 since I am leaving the country
on the 3rd. So get ready Salt Lake City.

Looking forward to it,
Nathan

“harper” <harper.1n9sy@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:harper.1n9sy@timelimit.unicyclist.com
>
> The Uni.5 will start its cross country journey starting early next week.
> It should come into Nathan Hoover’s possession in Los Gatos, CA before
> Friday, 22 March. The (very loose) plan is for it to depart for Salt
> Lake City on 1 April. From there it should leave for Tulsa if Mark
> Stephens contacts me again or Norman, Oklahoma if not, by 8 April. It
> should leave there for Jackson Mississippi on 15 April and go to
> Marietta, Georgia on 22 April. On 29 April it will probably go to
> wherever in Florida Accord and his buddies are. The schedule is loose
> and by the time it gets across Dixie, the calendar will have changed,
> the stops probably being less than a week. It will then go up the
> eastern seaboard to Reading, PA or to the Unatics in NYC.
> There may be another stop or two (David may drive it to Rochester or
> make some plan with Jeff Lutkus) before it goes to the TCUC in
> Minneapolis where it may make another long stop like the first one
> before it finally goes to Steve Howard in Idaho.
[etc]
> Ya all have fun now, ya hear?

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

On Sat, 16 Mar 2002 23:30:08 -0600, harper
<harper.1n9sy@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

>I checked the backlash again because I was concerned with my last
>measurement of 0.030" and it got banged around alot. Today I measured it
>at 0.018", less than ever. I rechecked it using a second dial indicator.
>Either I made a poor measurement at 14 miles or, more likely, the
>backlash is somewhat dependent on the position of all of the gears in
>the gear train. My measurements so far are:
>
>0.020" at zero miles after assembly
>0.030" at 14 miles
>0.018" at 25 miles and after the workshop today

Harper,

Do you take multiple backlash measurements at a time and then average
the results? I could imagine that due to uneven wear the backlash
could be different for different crank/wheel positions. Your 0.030"
could otherwise have been a “weak” point by accident.

(Weak is a relative term though, 0.030" at the end of the crank
corresponds to a quite small tolerance at the position of the gears.
Good design and machining indeed!)

Klaas Bil

“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“$, 11Emc Choe, revolt”

Re: Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

No…I don’t take multiple measurements…I’m inherently very lazy and impatient. I set up a dial indicator over the end of a horizontal crank with the seat off and the frame clamped into a drill press vice on the floor. Then I rotate the axle over the full range of the backlash. I can rock it back and forth as much as I want and I always get the same reading within 0.001".

I see it like this. When machining and assembling this hub there is some limit or range within which I can maintain concentricity of all of the parts. If you view the sun gear, planet cage, ring gear, hub halves, ball bearings, and axle all as circles whose actual centers are offset by a small amount, as these circles turn (and they necessarily turn at different rates here) the alignment of the parts will change slightly. This is not due to wear. The backlash may be quite different in the configuration where all of the offsets are in the same direction as opposed to the one in which they are all staggered. If they are aligned, I would guess that the backlash would be large as there is a small space on one side of the circle and a large space on the other so that all of the parts could rock loosely.

Of course I’ve thought alot of really stupid stuff before. I’m comfortrable with that now.

Greg,

When you’ve got the crate constructed, let us know what the expences were. :). Yes, you will tell us. No you will not argue- if you do, I’ll tell your wife that you were jelouse that Maxfield’s Spouse cycles, too, and turn you in to the Friends For The Prevention of the Missuse of Van DeGraff Generators, and other things far worse- surely there is some zoning committe in your neighborhood, comprised entirely of balding old women, that forbays excessive body hair, or… or… something far more sinister. So don’t triffle with us.

Christopher

The crate cost me $64,397.92 to construct. Why do you ask?

When my parents were alive they insisted on paying for everything when they came to visit. I had enough when I was walking up to the store to buy a loaf of bread and my mother asked me how much it would be. From that point on anytime they asked I told them everything cost $100 dollars. I was then free to buy bread, gas, big ticket items like that without too many arguments.

Adam Bourne and the Pt. Charlotte crew are getting excited about the crate’s arrival. Maybe I can get the Drummonds to pack in a seat with the crate on it’s way down? Heh. I’m also in desperate search of a kid who lives about 10-12 minutes away. A friend said she saw a kid riding a unicycle down the street, I’m determined to find him and make him join my Unicycle Cult.

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

When gears are made they are made with a backlash figure. If you ever get
to have gears made to measure you can get to specify what this figure is, it
is never zero. The back lash is there to allow the gears to turn if it was
zero they would not turn, life is like that. On my specification books
there are 4 set levels of backlash, the highest precision ones are not
recommended for general conditions.

Roger


The UK’s Unicycle Source


----- Original Message -----
From: “harper” <harper.1opfa@timelimit.unicyclist.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.unicycling
To: <rsu@unicycling.org>
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

>
> Klaas Bil wrote:
> > Harper,
> >
> > Do you take multiple backlash measurements at a time and then average
> > the results? I could imagine that due to uneven wear the backlash
> > could be different for different crank/wheel positions. Your 0.030"
> > could otherwise have been a “weak” point by accident.
> >
>
> No…I don’t take multiple measurements…I’m inherently very lazy and
> impatient. I set up a dial indicator over the end of a horizontal crank
> with the seat off and the frame clamped into a drill press vice on the
> floor. Then I rotate the axle over the full range of the backlash. I can
> rock it back and forth as much as I want and I always get the same
> reading within 0.001".
>
> I see it like this. When machining and assembling this hub there is some
> limit or range within which I can maintain concentricity of all of the
> parts. If you view the sun gear, planet cage, ring gear, hub halves,
> ball bearings, and axle all as circles whose actual centers are offset
> by a small amount, as these circles turn (and they necessarily turn at
> different rates here) the alignment of the parts will change slightly.
> This is not due to wear. The backlash may be quite different in the
> configuration where all of the offsets are in the same direction as
> opposed to the one in which they are all staggered. If they are aligned,
> I would guess that the backlash would be large as there is a small space
> on one side of the circle and a large space on the other so that all of
> the parts could rock loosely.
>
> Of course I’ve thought alot of really stupid stuff before. I’m
> comfortrable with that now.
>
>
> –
> harper - Greg Harper: Frequent Faller (oops)
>
> -Greg Harper
>
> (now able to meet the pavement at 1.5 times normal speed)
> “It takes twice the man to ride half the bike.”
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> harper’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/16937
>
>


> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu
>

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

>The crate cost me $64,397.92 to construct. Why do you ask?

I’m a pretty fair box builder and could probably save you a buck or two here or
there next time you want to build a crate.

David Maxfield
willing to subcontract on
Bainbridge Island

Re: Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

Yes. The original estimate of 0.020" (0.5mm) measured at the end of a 6" crank is derived from the backlash figure for these gears. The backlash figure assumes that everything is assembled properly. Klaas and I are trying to understand variations in the measured backlash.

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

With multiple measurements I of course meant measurements at different
positions of the pedals and wheel, not rocking back and forth with the
wheel and frame fixed. But you understood that.

Your view on the cause of possible backlash variations is quite valid
and what you describe probably has a larger influence than uneven wear
(at this stage at least). Also your measurement method makes sense. If
you would take care that you always use the same pedal forward, and
that the wheel has the same orientation (there are only two options
since the ratio is exactly 1 : 1.5) then at least you’re measuring
with all the gear components in the same position. Any variation you
then see can safely be attributed to deterioration over time.

Klaas Bil

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:07:10 -0600, harper
<harper.1opfa@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

>
>Klaas Bil wrote:
>> Harper,
>>
>> Do you take multiple backlash measurements at a time and then average
>> the results? I could imagine that due to uneven wear the backlash
>> could be different for different crank/wheel positions. Your 0.030"
>> could otherwise have been a “weak” point by accident.
>>
>
>No…I don’t take multiple measurements…I’m inherently very lazy and
>impatient. I set up a dial indicator over the end of a horizontal crank
>with the seat off and the frame clamped into a drill press vice on the
>floor. Then I rotate the axle over the full range of the backlash. I can
>rock it back and forth as much as I want and I always get the same
>reading within 0.001".
>
>I see it like this. When machining and assembling this hub there is some
>limit or range within which I can maintain concentricity of all of the
>parts. If you view the sun gear, planet cage, ring gear, hub halves,
>ball bearings, and axle all as circles whose actual centers are offset
>by a small amount, as these circles turn (and they necessarily turn at
>different rates here) the alignment of the parts will change slightly.
>This is not due to wear. The backlash may be quite different in the
>configuration where all of the offsets are in the same direction as
>opposed to the one in which they are all staggered. If they are aligned,
>I would guess that the backlash would be large as there is a small space
>on one side of the circle and a large space on the other so that all of
>the parts could rock loosely.
>
>Of course I’ve thought alot of really stupid stuff before. I’m
>comfortrable with that now.
>
>
>–
>harper - Greg Harper: Frequent Faller (oops)
>
> -Greg Harper
>
>(now able to meet the pavement at 1.5 times normal speed)
>“It takes twice the man to ride half the bike.”
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>harper’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
>View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/16937
>


“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“nkvd, NTIS, Verisign”

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

With multiple measurements I of course meant measurements at different
positions of the pedals and wheel, not rocking back and forth with the
wheel and frame fixed. But you understood that.

Your view on the cause of possible backlash variations is quite valid
and what you describe probably has a larger influence than uneven wear
(at this stage at least). Also your measurement method makes sense. If
you would take care that you always use the same pedal forward, and
that the wheel has the same orientation (there are only two options
since the ratio is exactly 1 : 1.5) then at least you’re measuring
with all the gear components in the same position. Any variation you
then see can safely be attributed to deterioration over time.

Klaas Bil

On Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:07:10 -0600, harper
<harper.1opfa@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

>
>Klaas Bil wrote:
>> Harper,
>>
>> Do you take multiple backlash measurements at a time and then average
>> the results? I could imagine that due to uneven wear the backlash
>> could be different for different crank/wheel positions. Your 0.030"
>> could otherwise have been a “weak” point by accident.
>>
>
>No…I don’t take multiple measurements…I’m inherently very lazy and
>impatient. I set up a dial indicator over the end of a horizontal crank
>with the seat off and the frame clamped into a drill press vice on the
>floor. Then I rotate the axle over the full range of the backlash. I can
>rock it back and forth as much as I want and I always get the same
>reading within 0.001".
>
>I see it like this. When machining and assembling this hub there is some
>limit or range within which I can maintain concentricity of all of the
>parts. If you view the sun gear, planet cage, ring gear, hub halves,
>ball bearings, and axle all as circles whose actual centers are offset
>by a small amount, as these circles turn (and they necessarily turn at
>different rates here) the alignment of the parts will change slightly.
>This is not due to wear. The backlash may be quite different in the
>configuration where all of the offsets are in the same direction as
>opposed to the one in which they are all staggered. If they are aligned,
>I would guess that the backlash would be large as there is a small space
>on one side of the circle and a large space on the other so that all of
>the parts could rock loosely.
>
>Of course I’ve thought alot of really stupid stuff before. I’m
>comfortrable with that now.
>
>
>–
>harper - Greg Harper: Frequent Faller (oops)
>
> -Greg Harper
>
>(now able to meet the pavement at 1.5 times normal speed)
>“It takes twice the man to ride half the bike.”
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>harper’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
>View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/16937
>


“To trigger/fool/saturate/overload Echelon, the following has been picked automagically from a database:”
“nkvd, NTIS, Verisign”

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

“Klaas Bil” <klaasbil_remove_the_spamkiller_@xs4all.nl> wrote in message
news:3c966051.8873716@newszilla.xs4all.nl…
>Your view on the cause of possible backlash variations is quite valid
> and what you describe probably has a larger influence than uneven wear
> (at this stage at least). Also your measurement method makes sense. If
> you would take care that you always use the same pedal forward, and
> that the wheel has the same orientation (there are only two options
> since the ratio is exactly 1 : 1.5) then at least you’re measuring
> with all the gear components in the same position. Any variation you
> then see can safely be attributed to deterioration over time.
>
So will there be a diagram (sketch) of component positions to measure the
backlash?

BTW, shouldn’t the side of the crate say:

TO : WILEY COYOTE
FROM : ACME JET UNICYCLE CO.

Doug

Re: Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

No, I would like the measurements to be taken randomly. That will really irk Klaas and that’s a good enough reason to do it.

When John Childs rode it Saturday he wanted to name in the “Whiplash” because one initially spends alot of energy trying to speed up and slow down the wheel quickly while trying to figure out what it’s doing. Some people (myself included) looked somewhat like they were on a mechanical bull.

Damme, mr. massey, you stole my thunder, but i’m going to do it anyway!

Re: Uni.5 cross country journey

Greg,
Sorry it took so long to reply. I’m still interested in the testing.
I’ll also see that Doug gets to ride(in Norman).
Thanks
-Mark

>
> The Uni.5 will start its cross country journey starting early next
> week. It should come into Nathan Hoover’s possession in Los Gatos, CA
> before Friday, 22 March. The (very loose) plan is for it to depart for
> Salt Lake City on 1 April. From there it should leave for Tulsa if Mark
> Stephens contacts me again or Norman, Oklahoma if not, by 8 April. It
> should leave there for Jackson Mississippi on 15 April and go to
> Marietta, Georgia on 22 April. On 29 April it will probably go to
> wherever in Florida Accord and his buddies are. The schedule is loose
> and by the time it gets across Dixie, the calendar will have changed,
> the stops probably being less than a week. It will then go up the
> eastern seaboard to Reading, PA or to the Unatics in NYC.
> There may be another stop or two (David may drive it to Rochester or
> make some plan with Jeff Lutkus) before it goes to the TCUC in
> Minneapolis where it may make another long stop like the first one
> before it finally goes to Steve Howard in Idaho.
>
> It will travel in a plywood crate that should require no packing
> material (or very little) and will be reusable. All participants should
> afix a sticker of some kind to the crate as a memento. Maybe they
> should put a sticker on the frame, too. Any spare hardware that seems
> useful to others may be deposited somewhere in the crate.
>
> I took it to a workshop at North Bend today given by the Cotters and
> Irene Genelin. It was ridden by the Minneapolis crew and John Childs as
> well as several of the Panther Pride Demo Team. These were the first
> riders other than myself. Until that point, it had been standard
> free-mounted and ridden 40 miles forward by me. Now, it has been idled
> by Connie, ridden backward by several riders, Irene dragged the seat
> front and back, an 8 year old girl one-footed on it, a 13 year old boy
> wheel hopped and did a uni-spin, it was hopped, roll mounted, wheel
> walked, and jump mounted. I’ll NEVER take it someplace like that
> again…EVERYONE was better than me on my own machine. WAY too many
> people free-mounted it on the first try, too. The cool part was
> watching people ride it who had legs too short to ride a Coker. Those
> riders spent alot of time on it, too… interesting, that.
>
> I checked the backlash again because I was concerned with my last
> measurement of 0.030" and it got banged around alot. Today I measured
> it at 0.018", less than ever. I rechecked it using a second dial
> indicator. Either I made a poor measurement at 14 miles or, more
> likely, the
> backlash is somewhat dependent on the position of all of the gears in
> the gear train. My measurements so far are:
>
> 0.020" at zero miles after assembly
> 0.030" at 14 miles
> 0.018" at 25 miles and after the workshop today
>
> I would appreciate any participants with the ability todo so to check
> the gear backlash at the end of a 6" crank. Also, please check the
> wheel to see if it is true and whether the tire rubs the frame. If you
> replace the tire, I have included spare rubber gaskets that go between
> the frame and the frame tab connection which must necessarily be
> disconnected to change tires.
>
> Ya all have fun now, ya hear?
>
>
> –
> harper - Greg Harper: Frequent Faller (oops)
>
> -Greg Harper
>
> (now able to meet the pavement at 1.5 times normal speed)
> “It takes twice the man to ride half the bike.”
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> harper’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/426
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/16937
>
>


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> www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu


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