terminology

system · June 11, 2001, 11:18am

A couple of words keep cropping up here which I don’t understand, (I know,
I could just use a dictionary, but I guess I’m after meanings in the
appropriate context!)

They are:

-“Cottered”

-“Splined”.

–
Trevor Coultart (Anecdotal and/or amusing quotation currently unavailable)

system · June 11, 2001, 4:27pm

> Kris Holm wrote…
> >Cotterless and Splined cranks are the worst and best types
> of axle/crank arm connections, respectively.

> It is unfortunate that. at least in Jaapan, cottered cranks are hard to
> come by. I never really had much trouble with cotterless cranks coming
> loose, but then again I rarely subject my unicycle to the extreme forces
> of mountain unicycling.

I think Kris Holm left cottered cranks out of his best/worst list. I would
definitely include cottered cranks at the #3 spot (worst). Though I got
away from cottered long before my serious involvement in MUni (or its
serious existence) I found there was a big difference. The square taper of
a cotterless crank is equally an improvement of a cotter pin with a single
flat face that a splined crank is over the cotterless one.

So cottered are the easiest to manufacture, but hold up to the least
amount of hopping or back and forth stress. Also they are mostly obsolete,
having been replaced by cotterless.

Cotterless are more complex to manufacture, and hold up to more abuse.
They are the standard on most bicycles and unicycles.

Splined is the high-end alternative. Since the manufacturing costs are a
lot higher than cotterless, they remain rare and expensive. Gradually I
expect to see them become more common in the bike business. As they do,
the price will come down. Splined is by far the best of the above three
methods for keeping crank arms tight.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

“Someone who thinks logically is a nice contrast to the real world.”

system · June 11, 2001, 6:08pm

“John Foss” <john_foss@asinet.com> wrote in message
news:52CD02C3DAD2D411A3170002A528514206B661@SERVER… [snip]
> Splined is the high-end alternative. Since the manufacturing costs are a
lot
> higher than cotterless, they remain rare and expensive. Gradually I
> expect to see them become more common in the bike business. As they do,
> the price will come down. Splined is by far the best of the above three
> methods for keeping crank arms tight.

Yes splined is still rare, but guess what I saw in a high-end bike shop
recently: a splined Dura-Ace bb and crankset for road bikes. It’s only 8
splines, but things are moving that way. A good picture is available at
http://www.branfordbike.com/bottombr/bb4biga.html

On my MUni, I like the Profile cranks, but they do creak a lot more than
the old cotterless setup I had before.

—Nathan

system · June 11, 2001, 1:47pm

These are ways that crank arms attach to hubs. My description is probably
not substantial enough to explain what these are if you have not seen them
already. If you’re still interested, ask someone at a bike shop.

Most unicycles (and bicycles) these days used cotterless connections. The
crank arm has a square hole. The hub is almost rectangular in shape (it’s
tapered so as you press the crank arms in farther, the fit is tighter.)

Cottered is the older technology (used in the schwinn I bought on e-bay)
and uses a circular hole in the crank arm, rather than square. The hub is
cylindrical, with a flat notch cut out of the side. A cotter pin is like a
bolt – threaded on one side, so you can attach a nut to it, but more
triangular on the other side. The cotter pin goes through another hole in
the crank arm, and goes against the notch in the hub. The wedge nature of
the cotter pin allows you to get a tight fit.

I know very little about splined crank arms and hubs, except that they are
supposed to be able to take the most abuse without deforming. I get the
impression they are closer related to the cotterless setup, but will not
describe further, as I’ve never examined one.

Jeff Lutkus jack of all trades, master of none

— Trevor Coultart <coultart.remove.this@mac.com>
> wrote: A couple of words keep cropping up here which I don’t understand,
> (I know, I could just use a dictionary, but I guess I’m after meanings
> in the appropriate context!)
>
>They are:
>
>-“Cottered”
>
>-“Splined”.
>
>–
>Trevor Coultart (Anecdotal and/or amusing quotation currently
>unavailable)

Free e-Mail and Webspace - http://Unicyclist.com

system · June 11, 2001, 2:14pm

Hi,

Cotterless and Splined cranks are the worst and best types of axle/crank
arm connections, respectively.

The below description of cottered cranks is good; I’ll expand on the
splined description:

Basically a splined axle has ridges ground into the axle that exactly fit
into notches cut into the hole in the crank arm. When you slide the crank
arm onto the axle the ridges and knotches fit into each other and prevent
the crank arm from turning on the axle. You can have from 6 to 48
knotches, or “splines” on an axle, depending on the brand.

This technology is used in many areas of industry for connections that
receive high torque. It is much stronger than a 4-square taper axle and
does not have a tendency to work loose, which is why it is the best system
for unicycle axles. Unfortunately it is much more expensive.

-Kris. — Jeff Lutkus <lutkus@unicyclist.com> wrote:
> These are ways that crank arms attach to hubs. My description is
> probably not substantial enough to explain what these are if you have
> not seen them already. If you’re still interested, ask someone at a
> bike shop.
>
> Most unicycles (and bicycles) these days used cotterless connections.
> The crank arm has a square hole. The hub is almost rectangular in shape
> (it’s tapered so as you press the crank arms in farther, the fit is
> tighter.)
>
> Cottered is the older technology (used in the schwinn I bought on e-bay)
> and uses a circular hole in the crank arm, rather than square. The hub
> is cylindrical, with a flat notch cut out of the side. A cotter pin is
> like a bolt – threaded on one side, so you can attach a nut to it, but
> more triangular on the other side. The cotter pin goes through another
> hole in the crank arm, and goes against the notch in the hub. The wedge
> nature of the cotter pin allows you to get a tight fit.
>
> I know very little about splined crank arms and hubs, except that they
> are supposed to be able to take the most abuse without deforming. I get
> the impression they are closer related to the cotterless setup, but will
> not describe further, as I’ve never examined one.
>
> Jeff Lutkus jack of all trades, master of none
>
> — Trevor Coultart <coultart.remove.this@mac.com>
> > wrote: A couple of words keep cropping up here which I don’t
> > understand, (I know, I could just use a dictionary, but I guess I’m
> > after meanings in the appropriate context!)
> >
> >They are:
> >
> >-“Cottered”
> >
> >-“Splined”.
> >
> >–
> >Trevor Coultart (Anecdotal and/or amusing quotation currently
> >unavailable)
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Free e-Mail and Webspace - http://Unicyclist.com

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system · June 11, 2001, 3:42pm

On 11/6/01 10:14 pm, Kris Holm posted:

> Basically a splined axle has ridges ground into the axle that exactly
> fit into notches cut into the hole in the crank arm. When you slide the
> crank arm onto the axle the ridges and knotches fit into each other and
> prevent the crank arm from turning on the axle. You can have from 6 to
> 48 knotches, or “splines” on an axle, depending on the brand.
>
> -Kris.

>>
>> Cottered is the older technology (used in the schwinn I bought on
>> e-bay) and uses a circular hole in the crank arm, rather than square.
>> The hub is cylindrical, with a flat notch cut out of the side. A cotter
>> pin is like a bolt – threaded on one side, so you can attach a nut to
>> it, but more triangular on the other side. The cotter pin goes through
>> another hole in the crank arm, and goes against the notch in the hub.
>> The wedge nature of the cotter pin allows you to get a tight fit.
>>

Excellent - thanks to you guys, I’ll now know what you’re all
talking about!

–
Trevor Coultart (Anecdotal and/or amusing quotation currently unavailable)

system · June 11, 2001, 3:45pm

> In message “Re: terminology”, Kris Holm wrote…
> >Hi,
> >
> >Cotterless and Splined cranks are the worst and best types of
> >axle/crank arm connections, respectively.

Oops I meant cottered are the worst, not cotterless.

-Kris.

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$35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

system · June 11, 2001, 4:03pm

Kris Holm wrote…
>> In message “Re: terminology”, Kris Holm wrote…
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >Cotterless and Splined cranks are the worst and best types of
>> >axle/crank arm connections, respectively.
>
>Oops I meant cottered are the worst, not cotterless.

I was kind of surprised.

Regards, Jack Halpern President, The CJK Dictionary Institute, Inc.
http://www.cjk.org Phone: +81-48-473-3508

system · June 11, 2001, 4:10pm

Greetings

In message “Re: terminology”, Kris Holm wrote…
>Hi,
>
>Cotterless and Splined cranks are the worst and best types of axle/crank
>arm connections, respectively.
>
>The below description of cottered cranks is good; I’ll expand on the
>splined description:

It is unfortunate that. at least in Jaapan, cottered cranks are hard to
come by. I never really had much trouble with cotterless cranks coming
loose, but then again I rarely subject my unicycle to the extreme forces
of mountain unicycling.

>
>Basically a splined axle has ridges ground into the axle that exactly
>fit into notches cut into the hole in the crank arm. When you slide the
>crank arm onto the axle the ridges and knotches fit into each other and
>prevent the crank arm from turning on the axle. You can have from 6 to
>48 knotches, or “splines” on an axle, depending on the brand.
>
>This technology is used in many areas of industry for connections that
>receive high torque. It is much stronger than a 4-square taper axle and
>does not have a tendency to work loose, which is why it is the best
>system for unicycle axles. Unfortunately it is much more expensive.
>
>-Kris. — Jeff Lutkus <lutkus@unicyclist.com> wrote:
>> These are ways that crank arms attach to hubs. My description is
>> probably not substantial enough to explain what these are if you have
>> not seen them already. If you’re still interested, ask someone at a
>> bike shop.
>>
>> Most unicycles (and bicycles) these days used cotterless connections.
>> The crank arm has a square hole. The hub is almost rectangular in
>> shape (it’s tapered so as you press the crank arms in farther, the fit
>> is tighter.)
>>
>> Cottered is the older technology (used in the schwinn I bought on
>> e-bay) and uses a circular hole in the crank arm, rather than square.
>> The hub is cylindrical, with a flat notch cut out of the side. A
>> cotter pin is like a bolt – threaded on one side, so you can attach
>> a nut to it, but more triangular on the other side. The cotter pin
>> goes through another hole in the crank arm, and goes against the
>> notch in the hub. The wedge nature of the cotter pin allows you to
>> get a tight fit.
>>
>> I know very little about splined crank arms and hubs, except that they
>> are supposed to be able to take the most abuse without deforming. I
>> get the impression they are closer related to the cotterless setup,
>> but will not describe further, as I’ve never examined one.
>>
>> Jeff Lutkus jack of all trades, master of none
>>
>> — Trevor Coultart <coultart.remove.this@mac.com>
>> > wrote: A couple of words keep cropping up here which I don’t
>> > understand, (I know, I could just use a dictionary, but I guess
>> > I’m after meanings in the appropriate context!)
>> >
>> >They are:
>> >
>> >-“Cottered”
>> >
>> >-“Splined”.
>> >
>> >–
>> >Trevor Coultart (Anecdotal and/or amusing quotation currently
>> >unavailable)
>>
>> _____________________________________________________________
>> Free e-Mail and Webspace - http://Unicyclist.com
>
>
>__________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only
>$35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>

Regards, Jack Halpern President, The CJK Dictionary Institute, Inc.
http://www.cjk.org Phone: +81-48-473-3508

system · June 11, 2001, 9:46pm

> On my MUni, I like the Profile cranks, but they do creak a lot more than
> the old cotterless setup I had before.
>
> —Nathan

The squeak does go away if you take the cranks off and reassemble with
grease. I don’t know if a quick shot of Tri-Flo without removing would do
the same thing, but it might work.

Chris

system · June 11, 2001, 9:46pm

> On my MUni, I like the Profile cranks, but they do creak a lot more than
> the old cotterless setup I had before.
>
> —Nathan

The squeak does go away if you take the cranks off and reassemble with
grease. I don’t know if a quick shot of Tri-Flo without removing would do
the same thing, but it might work.

Chris

system · June 11, 2001, 11:05pm

Y’all should have gotten DM unicycles with the DM splined hub. No
squeaking with that hub. Just rock solid quiet riding.

john_childs

>From: Chris Reeder <reed8990@uidaho.edu>
>
> > On my MUni, I like the Profile cranks, but they do creak a lot more >
>than the old cotterless setup I had before.
> >
> > —Nathan
>
>The squeak does go away if you take the cranks off and reassemble with
>grease. I don’t know if a quick shot of Tri-Flo without removing would do
>the same thing, but it might work.
>
>Chris

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system · June 12, 2001, 5:20am

What type of grease would be recommended, and what sort of store would be
most likley to stock it?

Jeff Lutkus

>The squeak does go away if you take the cranks off and reassemble with
>grease. I don’t know if a quick shot of Tri-Flo without removing would do
>the same thing, but it might work.
>
>Chris

Free e-Mail and Webspace - http://Unicyclist.com

system · June 12, 2001, 8:44am

Jeff Lutkus wrote:
>
> What type of grease would be recommended, and what sort of store would
> be most likley to stock it?

Now I was just talking about the Profile splined cranks, which do creak a
lot if they are not greased because there is no taper or pinch bolt in the
design. I don’t have any experience greasing squeaky square-taper cranks,
but Jobst said grease should definitely be used on square taper cranks, so
better late than never, right?

I used cooking oil.

chris

>
> Jeff Lutkus
>
> >The squeak does go away if you take the cranks off and reassemble
> >with grease. I don’t know if a quick shot of Tri-Flo without removing
> >would do the same thing, but it might work.
> >
> >Chris
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Free e-Mail and Webspace - http://Unicyclist.com

system · June 12, 2001, 9:39am