I’ve spotted a rim I’d love to get for my somewhat old school KH26 Schlumpf build (a new old stock Onza Hog 48mm), and my hope was that I would be able to do the swap by taping the rims together, loosening all the spokes, then transferring one spoke at a time from old to new rim without having to unlace the hub at all.
Unfortunately the Onza Hog ERD is 536mm, which is 8mm less than the 42mm Nimbus Muni Rim it would replace (544mm). This amounts to it needing nearly 4mm shorter spokes than the existing ones. I’m not wanting to get a new set of spokes due to budget and time (and possible future Brakefast conversion which would be more worthy of spending money and time on than just to get little red hedgehogs on my (wider) rim), so a sensible move would be to give up now. However I’m not ready to be sensible yet, so have come up with 2 possibilities…
Option 1. Could a stack of 3 Sapim HM cup nipple washers be safely used on each nipple inside the (probably cavernous) hollow of the Hog rim? That would add 3 x 1.5 mm to the spoke length, but probably mean the square of the nipple would barely protrude from the rim, so spoke adjustments would need to be from the inside, which is a pain. This would cost me less than £10.
Option 2: Could I use Sapim brass 8.5mm inverted nipples? The Hog has eyelets on the outer spoke holes meaning a good surface for the (un-slotted) round nipple end, and I expect all the thread on my existing too-long spokes would be on inside of the rim, so plenty of good contact and strength. But again all spoke adjustments would need to be done from the inside of the rim. This option would cost about £15.
I think option 1 is probably too much of a bodge, so option 2 would be better, although I would probably need to get a slimmer spoke key which is an added cost. For comparison, getting new spokes would be less than £30 delivered (and for £8 more I could even get nice new red aluminium nipples to match the red hedgehogs), but that way I would have all the hassle of rebuilding my wheel from the hub outwards.
Do any of you with wheel building experience think either of my options are viable, or should I just be sensible and give up on the idea?
I’m assuming you have a 3 cross wheel just now – if you were to go to 4 cross what does that do for the lengths? That could be a zero cost solution – I wouldn’t be too keen on either of your other two options.
Unfortunately 4 cross would need much longer spokes. After some thought I’m not too keen on either solution either!
Another zero cost solution would be if it was OK to keep tightening the nipples until about 4mm of unthreaded spoke had been drawn inside. I guess this would be possible but would flatten the internal thread on 1/3 of the nipple (I currently have 12mm black alu nipples). But that only leaves 8mm of threaded spoke to hold the tension
Here’s another option - I actually like this one…
Sapim do double square 7075 alu nipples which are 16mm, with an extra 4mm square profile inside the rim. There’s 12mm of thread, and it’s at the top of the nipple - the bottom 4mm of the nipple has no internal threading. So they would be perfect to absorb the extra 4mm of over-long spoke while still leaving me with a normal amount of nipple showing, and 12mm of spoke grip - and I can even get them in red! Cost would be about £17.
Generally speaking I think the cost of spokes cut to the size they’re meant to be is more cost effective in the long run.
Don’t stack the Sapim washers. That’s going to cause issues and your spokes could end up just poking through the rim tape.
The double square nipples could be about the best option here. With 1 washer per spoke.
I get the desire to reuse parts and not waste ££ but I think for a precious hub like your Schlumpf would benefit from the right spokes. But then I probably would advocate for this type of approach wouldn’t is
Stainless 14g spokes from UDC are 60p with a brass nipple, so that is £21.60 for 36, so not much more than the double square nipples (which, to be pedantic, are really meant to be tightened from the inside with Sapim’s special tool, but can be done on the outside too, but you may well mark them given they are alloy).
Why not buy the rim just now since it is available, then get the BrakeFast adapter when you can, then do the build then? If it looks like you’re not going to get the BrakeFast, you can then just get new spokes and build it on to your hub setup.
Thanks @DrD and @mindbalance - you speak wisdom that I may need to heed, but I do enjoy a successful improvisation / bodge ;-). (and yes I inflated the spoke price a bit because last time I bought 40 in case things went wrong, but I think for my third wheel build I could reasonably stick to 36)
As I see it I’m protecting the hub by not unseating one set of spokes and replacing them with another, which would no doubt wear differently.
As it stands I can’t buy the rim for a week because the seller’s not available, but assuming it’s still available then and I still think I can spend £26 for 6mm more rim width and 36 hedgehog-shaped holes then I’ll buy it as a first step. Then I can decide whether it’s for now or for a future iteration of my uni with a Brakefast adaptor (although I had thought that might happen along with a new 29er frame and rim, which is a long way off, and would of course leave the hedgehogs permanently out in the cold!)
