Schlumpf hubs: general discussion

Unicycles and Equipment
602

Not having chimed in here in a while, I like the 1.5 high gear, but I have the 29er flavor (although I’m also short - 5’6"), and usually ride it on roads. That said, there aren’t that many opportunities to ride the lower gear - only up steeper hills or when slowing down for traffic situations. Which means I usually just treat it like a 45er.

NurseBen - it does take some time to get comfortable with the shifting and just plain old riding in high gear, so give it a chance. Obviously you will give it a chance, now that you’re into the thing for $2K.

603

[QUOTE=steveyo;1472708]
Not having chimed in here in a while, I like the 1.5 high gear, but I have the 29er flavor and usually ride it on roads. That said, there aren’t that many opportunities to ride the lower gear - only up steeper hills or when slowing down for traffic situations. Which means I usually just treat it like a 45er.

QUOTE]

I also use my 29 GUNI mostly on roads and usually just leave it in 45er mode - so I don’t really have much need for the 1:1 mode and don’t notice the big gap in ratios. I free mount in high gear and can idle at intersections pretty successfully (translation: I still fairly suck at shifting). So . . . . No, I didn’t love my geared hub right away either. It took some getting used to. That said, it hasn’t replaced my 36er and the 26" surly single speed is the most used uni in the stable.

Bryce

604

Hi Nurse Ben,

I am new to Schlumpfing, but I am enjoying it, even if I can still make better progress on a normal hub.

You have not always been so bullish on 29" unicycles. Perhaps you are just inconstant in your (unicycle) relationships? :slight_smile:

Here is an old post where you express some disfavor for a 29" muni:

As you get more experienced with a Schlumpf, you may grow to like it (even with the 1:1.5 gearing.)

I admit that the feeling of kicking a 36" into high gear is very cool, even if my riding is a bit dodgy.

Scott

605

24 to 54

My 36 geared wheelset just arrived today! All put together and thankfully no issues with frame clearance. Took a short test ride out front and things went pretty smoothly. Between my experience riding the 24 guni and lots of riding the 36 with 110s, I think I should be able to get the hang of the 36 guni pretty quick. Off tomorrow for a longer ride.

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606

BTW, I have found that one should always reserve judgement on a new uni set-up until one has spent sufficient time riding the new set-up. New configurations tend to always feel wrong at first.

607

Though I have had my guni for a little over a year, I am really just a few months into riding it. I have no trouble with the 1.5 ratio. It took a long time for me to be able to say that. My low gear is a little too low for climbing on the street, though it makes getting to the top of the hill pretty easy. Shifting to high is not usually a problem. Shifting to low poses a timing problem I have yet to figure out. I wait until I really have to shift and usually it’s too late. I can’t shift when I’m already climbing, but I don’t want to go so slow too early. I’m thinking a 29 would be better for me. I was hoping to get a new, small value torque wrench for my birthday but it didn’t happen. I’m ready to try a dirt tire on an easy trail (I think :astonished: ). I hope that will push me to improve geared riding faster. I just don’t want it to take another year :roll_eyes: . I have to leave the 137 cranks on for shifting but as long as the trails aren’t too bumpy that shouldn’t be a big deal.

608

I’have been designing a 3 gears hub with a 1 single planetary gear train for the lat 2 years. Last summer I showed the drawing to Kris HOLM, Roger DAVIES, Nathan HOOVER and Ken LOOI; and drawing has been a lot improved during last year; hope to launch it 1 day.

My hub as 3 gears with a single gear train (ring gear : 96 teeth module 1 / planet gear : 30 / sun gear : 36)

Ratios are : under gear 1 : 0.727, direct drive 1 : 1, and overdrive 1 : 1.375

My idea is to fit this hub on à 29" frame with 125mm cranks in order to have a perfect off-road uni (same as a 24"/150mm in lower gear and same as a 36"/110mm in higher gear) or on a 36" frame with 125mm cranks for a perfect road uni (same as a 29"/140mm in lower gear and same as a 36" Schlumpf 140mm cranks in higher gear)

My concept is compatible with KH frame : 100mm bearing center distance, just need some additional bosses for gear shift rod control and cable stoppers

Gear shift is by a twist shifter Rolhoff instead of Schlumpf buttons

No stop rings on the axis to be compatible with future KH disc brake with spacers between hub and cranks

Claws are same concept as Schlumpf lock fingers

As I’m working at Renault Engineering department, I presented the general layout drawing to gearbox design department and they validated the concept !

Now, just need to go deeper in this project, my target is to present a prototype for next July 2012 Unicon in Italy !

609

Had my first real ride on the 36 guni (w/ 150s) this morning. I started with a route I did 2 days ago 36 non-guni with 110s. I was ever so slightly faster with the guni. However, I see real potential for bumping up the average speed on a ride 1.5 to 2.0 mph. My top cruising speed with effort with 110s unguni is about 13 mph. With a similar effort on the same terrain, I was cruising at 14.5 to 15 mph. Over the whole 10 miles, I averaged 12.5mph. There is definetly room for improvement there. I had a one mile section of trail that is almost imperceptibly down hill with no wind, and I averaged 14.5mph with a top speed of 16.5mph. The level of control between the 2 set-ups is very similar. The longer cranks and lower cadence seem to offset the higher gear ratio in terms of control. To achieve speed the guni demands higher pedal pressure, where the 110 unguni requires high cadence. Cadence is definetly the limiting factor on the unguni. I can only crank so fast for so long. Higher speeds can be attained on the guni with a comfortable cadence with a little bit more effort.

BTW, did I say this thing is awesome :slight_smile:

610

Second ride on the 36 guni this morning. Rode from home to the Farmers market. Started with a little XC muni on a trail down a wash (passed a kid on a mtn bike), arrived at the paved bike path and kicked it into high. Good stuff.

611

The Louisville Loop (95% funded, 30% complete) will be 100 miles of paved multi-use paths connecting all the parks in the city. This is why I had Bronson put my new hub in a KH36.

Another good argument for 36" GUNI. I wanted to have two “useful” gears. Actually, with 150/125 dual hole moment cranks, I guess you could say 4 gears but I doubt I will be able to turn it over (and handle the reduced balance envelope) in the 125mm hole unless I am riding down by the river (in a van :sunglasses: ) where it is really flat.

Then, there is the off-road people like Terry and Ben that built a 26" wheel which seems perfect if you were doing a bunch of trails. But, until my kids are grown enough to at least ride b*kes on a trail, I can not find the time to drive down to Cherokee Park. I might make the switch down the road. For now, most of my riding is out the door and down the road when I can find a free hour.

At any rate, thank you Andy and Scott for keeping this thread exciting for us big wheelers!

612

@ Bouin-bouin- I saw some of your technical drawings up on the forums a good while ago and what you are proposing seems to be a real leap forward in geared unicycle technology. I hope you manage to convert your drawings into a physical prototype for Unicon XVI!

In the last 2 weekends i’ve completed a 50km mtb event in 3hrs 20min, and a 100km mtb event in 8hrs 22min on my 24" geared muni with 125s and 3" Duro tyre. All in all the gearing worked well for both events. The short cranks would probably kill other riders legs (especially considering the distances involved), but i’m young and spritely. The short cranks and lower ride height were really important in the 100ker where canopy cover was at a premium and the boggy conditions made pedal strikes an issue in the big ruts.

The main issues for me were not the hub or gearing but other things- like how shit rim brakes become when your muni is coated in a thick layer of drying mud. I want disc brakes…now…please?

613

Hey David, so far the 150 hole low-and-high gear are both really useful. I have been thinking about climbing the road up the local mountains - 2700’ to 9000’ in just over 20 miles. I am thinking that the 125 hole in low gear could be useful for long sections of uphill that are not too steep. After some more practice, if I am feeling brave, I might have to give the 125 hole a try in high. I did pop into high with the 150 hole on an easy stretch of single-track today. I decided that’s a little sportier than I am ready for at this point.

614

Racing with a schlumpf

Along with Napalm aka Mark I’ve just finished competing in 2 MTB races in 2 weeks on my 26 guni.
The first race was 50km with about 3250 feet of climbing in it. I rode with the pedals in the 125ml slot, but found that I was standing up too much.
I changed to 150ml for the second race which was also 50km but only had 2265 feet of climbing. It was muddy as hell with lots of water but I was able to sit down and grind for a lot more of the track which I found much easier. the mud made changing gears hard but the 1.5 gearing was great. It allowed me to barrel along the smoother single track and open fire trails.
While I did 50km in the second race, Kudos should go to Mark (Napalm) who completed the 100km option against the enemy (b#kes) in atrocious conditions.

615

Oh, I remember my first 29er, and my good wife reminds me as well, but when I first got my first 29ers I was a relatively new rider (first year) and my muni skills were negligible. Now I’m more seasoned, ride muni many times a week, ride with other muni riders, and I have a 36er and have ridden it on trails. I’m pretty confident in my abilities, my limits, and what will work for my situation.

If going fast and making distance was my only concern and my local trails were conducive to riding a 36er, then I could likewise use a 26guni to a greater degree, places in NC like Dupont or Bent Creek in Asheville. Those trails have longer roaded sections connecting easier wide single track with the occassional true single track, yeah, a guni could work fine.

But where I live, most of the trails are short, very rooty and rocky, lots of quick up and down, more muni than XC, so the high gear is about useful as a having two brakes on one uni :roll_eyes:

Not to mention, I am now riding a 39 inches vs the 36 inches, which makes a big difference, esp without having the stability and inertia of a bigger wheel, so when I get bumped in high gear on the guni, it is really destablizing. This was the “issue” that I never understood until Tholub corrected me, and which all potential guni riders should be very aware of before buying a guni:

A 24/26 guni is significantly harder to ride in high gear than a 36er.

I am committed to this thing now that I own it, so it’ll get some use, just not sure how much…

Funniest thing I found while riding the 26guni is my renewed my interest in riding a narrow tired (Ardent 2.6) 26er, it’s just so much more agile and easy to ride than the same set up in a (Ardent 2.4) 29er, even more nimble than the Oregon when it’s not super gnar or super nasty (wet). Though for covering ground and doing mixed trail riding, the 29er remains the stead of choice.

I’d pay a bunch more for a true three speed as bouin-bouin has described, a $1000 per gear seems fair :slight_smile:

616

I agree that the 29er is a great all-around muni machine. But I also am finding the 24 guni to be great for muni too. For me, I find the 24 guni in high gear to be more rideable on single track than a 36er. Maybe that’s just me. I’ve been riding the 24 guni for about a year now, and have gotten pretty comfortable riding high-gear on moderately technical single track. Plus, with the 24 guni, I can shift to low to negotiate technical climbs and descents. I ride some trails that have sections that are rideable on the 36, but lots of sections that would require getting off and walking. On the 24 guni, I can zoom through lots of single-track, and shift to low to handle the really tough stuff. So what I have found is that the majority of the trails that I used to ride on my 29er, I also have a good time riding with the 24 guni. I still have my straight 24 for the stuff that is too steep and gnarly for the 29er. Also, now that I have moved from a 36 unguni with 110s to a 36 guni with 150’s, I can ride the 36er on easy XC muni and road riding without changing set-ups.

617

Did a 10 mile ride this morning on the 36 guni. Easy bike path riding. Finished in 45 minutes for an average of 13.3 mph. Most definetly could not do that on the un-guni.

618

Not to try and justify my recent $3.5k purchase, but this sounds like another vote for putting a Schlumpf hub in a KH36 due to the stability and inertia of a bigger wheel for riding on smoother (paved “rails to trails” paths) surfaces without very many destablizing bumps in the road.

Now, the only arguments against a 36" guni for my type of out-the-door and up-the-road “distance” rides are;

  • a 24" or 26" with longish cranks and a road tire seems like it would be a real climbing machine (a guni being more fun on the way down) here in the hills of Kentucky where the 36" wheel gets harder to turn over (a testament to building leg strength and improving technique) when it gets too steep.
  • the many miles of glorious singletrack in this area are deep in the woods so they have a canopy height cut for mountain b*kes and riding a 36er of any ilk is a constant battle of spiderwebs and tree limbs. heck, even the sidewalks (urban MUni) can be a challenge in the summer months.
  • and last-but-not-least: it's so darn far to fall. Despite owning stock in SixSixOne protection (knee, shin, elbow), I've got a nice bruise on my coccyx (tailbone) to prove that last point.
619

No David, you just need to have both really. :smiley:

620

MOST of my riding is similar to what you describe, however I travel around enough and ride in different enough places that having a high gear is useful to travel between sections of trail.

Also, think about expanding your range. When I first got my KH/Schlumpf Hub I was still approaching my riding from several years of single speed, range limited riding. So I too thought, “Why do I have this hub?” Well I began to rethink my standard routes and came up with whole new possibilities since I could now use the high gear; my range of trails and miles of riding have increased dramatically. Yeah it isn’t all trail riding, more roads to the trails, but now I can link up sections of trail that I wouldn’t consider before because I wouldn’t have the time budget…

Another thing to try is to swap out that trail tire for a road tire (I’ve got a Maxxis Hookworm that I really like) and hit the pavement! As I’m nursing a heel injury, this is the kind of exercise/riding I’m reduced to. It’s amazing how much more “pop” I have in high gear when using this much lighter and narrower tire than my typical Nokian Gazz.

24/26 significantly harder to ride than a 36er? I would have agreed with you in the first couple MONTHS of riding my KH24 GUni but now I don’t agree. The big revelation for me was putting shorter (137mm) cranks on there. This made it much smoother for me to pedal in high gear, less wobble and I can attest I can ride faster on my geared up KH24 than I can on my 36er on roads. 26er? Well I can see why that might be more of a challenge as geared up it isn’t a 36er at all.

Bottom line: Riding the KH/Schlumpf whether for dedicated road/dirt use takes some significant time to master and should force you to rethink your entire single-speed minded approach.

I couldn’t imagine NOT having my GUni now that I’ve gotten comfortable with it! Single speeding is just so SLOW!

621

Maybe you should say “limited to.” Reduced has a feeling of inferiority (that’s how I read it).

I have a 26 and changing the cranks to 137s was the best “fix” for me. It not only allowed me to reach the buttons to shift, but it’s better for climbing. I am less tired and can manage much steeper climbs than I can do on my 36. High gear still requires more concentration though. That is something that I hope will go away in time. It is getting better as I ride more.