i’ll see…the other idea is, also for a better angle, turn the T7 upsidedown and weld it on a steal seatpost…
I’m sure it would be more comfortable. During the RTL time trial I wanted to practically lay down on my T7, but just putting a little extra weight on the front and I would have to pull back to correct. Actually, I never thought about it much before, but when I ride, I’m holding on to the very end of the handles, with my palms on the last inch of handle. It seems that I would probably benefit from a longer reach like that. I think putting your main body weight behind that center line will definitely allow you to distribute more weight to the front for an easier ride in the seat. I just have very little faith in those t7 rails. It’s almost painful for my brain to see your mod pictures because it’s putting more leverage on an already weak point in the t7 design.
But as a prototype for a new way of riding long distances, I think you’re on to something. if that T7 had a straight tube instead of those rails, I think my brain would hurt less.
Center of gravity and freemount
After seeing the modified T7 with seat in rear I ask myself :
What does this do to center of gravity?
How am I effected for freemounting and riding without hands on handlebar?
How am I effected for idling?
Giving thought to mechanical advantage, what strain am I putting on T7 bar by moving seat to rear. It just like a crowbar prying seat post.
This is a very interesting topic/post. I’m curious to what KH is upto for his development for a handle.
Thanks everyone for your input.
I’ve modified the article on Adventure Unicyclist. It reads alot better than my first post on this thread: http://www.adventureunicyclist.com/?page_id=263
turtle: I ride XC Muni alot too, and I’m wondering if it would be practical for a MUni. After all, mountainbikes aren’t all that different from road bikes. Maybe slightly more upright. I’m also toying with the idea of having a suspension shock on the front bar, or if it was a V-frame, on the front fork.
CoreTechs: The T7 is not the best design for this…I’ve never been a fan of rails. But the principle can be applied to other designs. Instead of a superlong front pole, use two shorter ones…front and back. It will be stronger. That said, I’m pretty light, so hopefully it will hold up ok.
unijuul: thanks. I’ve been talking about this for ages, but only just got around to putting it all together.
turtle (re your second post). I think that would work. You could flip it upside down and somehow bolt the seatpost onto the seatplate (it’s curved the wrong way, but nothing a bit of creativity can’t fix), rather than clamping it onto the rails. I actually wanted to clamp the new KH seatpost onto the T7 seatplate, but Tony Melton told me it wouldn’t fit in between the rails.
Boojiboy: That was the whole point in demonstrating this concept. If you were designing this from scratch you would get rid of the complicated rail and seatplate system, and just use a seatplate and weld the front/back poles onto it.
legtod2:
What does this do to center of gravity?
Nothing. It’s more about hand/arm positioning than body positioning. Some people ride with quite upright postures. This setup might not suit them.
How am I effected for freemounting and riding without hands on handlebar?
I never ever ride my unicycle without my hands on the handle. It’s like riding a bike with no handlebar. Fun for a while, but not very efficient or comfortable. Freemounting is a bit weird at first, but you get used to it.
How am I effected for idling?
I dont’ know, I haven’t tried idling it yet.
Just logged on after a while away, and this thread is great! The “T” frame has now been invented as a cheaper alternative to making a “V” frame, using a traditional single-leg frame.
Design-wise, as folks have rightly pointed out, that’s alot of stress at the center of the “T” (i.e. at the top of the seat tube). Nonetheless, we can envision a production “T” mount with many adjustable saddle & grip positions. It would have the seatpost built into the center section to eliminate the rails, and that’s all you’d need for basic height adjustment. It could still have a tilt adjustment just like the U-clamp saddle mount.
Another great mod, Ken! Thanks for the pics - as always, worth 1000 words.
Maybe, but there is room for improvement, see partial screenshot.
Other than that nitpicking, you’re onto something! I like the name unisk8r came up with: the T frame.
This may be a dumb question, but couldn’t one substitute a T7 for a simular length of alloy or steel pipe? That way you could still attach the seat to the “pipe” a the back, clamp the seat post to the center of the pipe (possibly with some modification or block shim) and then you have the whole front end of the pipe to work with, vary the length as appropriate and then attach/weld bike components such as bike stems, bar ends, aero bars etc… Just a thought? If I had any metal working skills I’d give this a shot. Just use a length of tubing/pipe that would fit regular bike components…hmmmm
Yeah, I like the T-frame too…the poor mans V-frame. But anything beats the 7-frame or worse still, the I-frame.
I don’t know what browser you’re using Klaas, or why my website looks screwy on it 
IE6. For the 6 or 8 tutorial pages I just checked, only this one gives this problem.
Yep, that’s the whole point of what I was doing. But I happened to have a T7 handy, and all the backets to attach the seat out the back.
ARggghhhhh!!!
That explains it. The worst browser ever. Even for Microsoft.
Get Opera or Firefox 
The “T” frame seems like a reasonable approach to finding the extended handlebar solution. My concern with it would be that same as I have with the T7. Is the “T” strong enough?
When you’ve got your weight distributed between the seat and the handlebars the stress on the “T” is not extreme. But when you take your weight off the handlebars all your weight ends up on the seat. This would leverage considerable stress against the weld or clamp at the seat post. The longer the rear bar the greater the stress on that joint. How long will that last before it snaps? Consider heavier riders and riding off the odd curb. I’m no expert on strengths of materials but I don’t think it would last through RTL.
What you would need would be a knee brace (like you see supporting the beams under the eaves of some houses). A bar that would support the seat-end of the horizontal bar from lower down on the seat post. Something that came up at 45 degrees or so making a triangle out of the seat post, horizontal rear bar and the knee brace bar. You probably wouldn’t need to have one under the handlebar end because the maximum weight on the handlebars would be less than the maximum weight on the seat.
This would limit the adjustability of the rear half of the “T”. But you could make up for that by raising the seat high enough off of the horizontal bar and adding a tilt mechanism or just by adding in some adjusting mechanism to the handlebar itself.
Ok I really need to leave town and build some igloos. I just can’t seem to tear myself away from this thread. See you next week.
Geoff
I’ve always wondered why road unicyclists use a hand position that looks so awkward and bunched up.
I don’t yet own a 36, but if I do, I’m going to want to be close to a bike position on it.
Firefox yes, but only when I have a new PC. This one has no room left for significant new installations. On the other hand, since most of the pages of adventureunicyclist display just fine (I found the erratic behaviour only on the T-frame page), from my perspectives something is wrong with that particular page. A kind of wrongness that Firefox may be able to correct for you, but still
It would be the Y frame! (Not really but there is no letter like that.)
Though I have not ever used another set-up other than the T7, I can feel my body screaming for a more bike-like geometry when riding.
Another thing to consider is the position of the hands themselves. I wouldn’t be against trying out a handlebar that resembles road bike drop bars. Scott Wilton from the forums has modded his T7 to include a drop bar-esque option and they definitely didn’t impede him during RTL (especially the crit).
Of course, the bars still have to be relatively close together so that he doesn’t catch his legs during a UPD. Can anyone think of a plausible way to give the rider a wider bar (possibly as wide as shoulder width) without making them too much of an obstacle in the event of a UPD?
I have been waiting for someone to make this thread. Please, let’s make V, T, and sometimes Y frames the norm for distance and road riding!
And another thought… If it turns out that the current upright riding position is indeed better for things like idling etc., is there a reason why there couldn’t be two seats?
This is a huge step outside the box. I’m not sure I’d want a unicycle with two seats, though it’s obviously easy with Ken’s setup. But more importantly, that’s the kind of explosively radical suggestion we need to evolve the equipment for our blooming sport. Keep them coming.
Meanwhile, a Y-frame mockup…
You are now getting closer to the V-frame design which is I think the best solution. But for people with the current single fork frame, I think it’s better to have two short poles than one long one.
As I’ve mentioned before, I never ever ride with my hands off the bars. It’s like riding a bike with no hands. Fun for a while, but not much good if you are riding for any sort of distance.
This would work, if you were tall!
I’m craving some roadie bars…not so much for the drops, I really want to ride the hoods on this set-up!
Another thing to consider…is there any reason for road unicyclists to ride as if they were going to UPD all the time?
At over 20km/hr, what are your chances of running out of a UPD? Either way, you will end up on the ground. In fact, I think one of the reasons why unicyclists have such horrific ankle and leg injuries is to do with the way we fall. Bicyclists tend to scrape off alot of skin when they fall (usually to the side), or break their clavicle/wrist if they went over the bar. Unicyclists tend to fall with their legs hitting the ground at funny angles…I think many of you have seen my Xrays and other Xrays on this forum.
If you are riding a bike, you are not consciously thinking about how you are going to fall. You try not to in the first place! I think we need to get away from the mentality that if you fall off a unicycle, you need to be able to run it out. Especially when you are going at 25km/hr…that’s just not practical.