Admirable. Does it seriously feel safer? In what way?
never had the feeling i would upd, no problem shifting gear, no problem with bumps, i’can’t say it here…
it feels like riding a b*** 
yes and no: this is the prototype, i need the back tube so i can play with the seat position…and when i’m done with testing the geometry i’ll go with alu 
I was gonna say, this must be the worlds heaviest uni, but with aluminum it will be much better. Did you weigh it yet? It must be about the weight of a bike…
I enjoy your experiment a lot, but I think this would be way to much of a handle for me. It really looks as if there’s just one wheel missing:p
the uni with the “multifunctional” handlebar (road and xc, will never used like this, or there will be two “models”), ist 9kg (but it’s a schlumpf and
has a big apple 2.35 on it) i guess on my 29"kh it will be a lot less and as i said after testing the setup, i’ll go with aluminium
Ok Turtle, so how do you like the elbow pad/time trials riding position? It seems to change the balance dynamics a lot when you rest your eblows on something.
Best analogy I can find is that is like going from walking on your feet . . . . to putting on knee pads and maybe walking on your knees.
I found it takes some getting used to, but really makes long rides way more comfortable.
Also, before you build your alum prototype, you might run the weight calculations on the difference between thin walled .035" (.89 mm) or .49" chromo steel tubing and Alloy T-6061. The aluminum isn’t all that much lighter and a more hassle/expense in the fabrication process.
Brycer1968
+1
I’d like to see some more “dynamic shots” from each of these respective frame prototype concepts. It’s one thing to see the still photos of the frame and still photos of someone riding the prototype but it is fair more useful to see a) video of the mount and, probably more importantly b) video of the rider in motion. Perhaps difficult to do but would be good for a 2nd party videoing while following along at the same speed as the rider. And then c) stationary 2nd party videoing the rider coming and going. Just a thought, perhaps by analyzing these videos the other frame designers could get some useful feedback on how to tweak their own designs and possible lead to other hybrid designs?
Just my two cents… I wish I had time and the metal working skills!
Brycer1968 needs to make a vid. I think the elbow rests are the cats meow.
Hmmm? Cats meow . . . .well, I’m gonna have to enlist some helpers to get a video clip. I’ll see what I can do this weekend
Brycer1968
drawings and midgets
Bill: No aerodynamic effects other than having a slight advantage in stiff winds that catch an upright rider a little easier
See 30 second sketch below of the next prototype of this “seat behind” conceptand a pic of a couple of custom parts for what I guess I’m calling the “Max Taint Teeter Totter” Also see the bracket I made for Z Boisei’s N36 frame for a similar bar set.
So far my PM file here has not been blown up by messages from the sub 5’ tall uni riders, so alas, my midget coker concept may fade into obscurity before it can even be tried out by some joy-filled short nubbley little legs. Short riders and kids organize!! This is the ticket to the big wheel and speed, speed and more speed. Take this idea, 30 second drawing and make it happen! I will help you. Let it be know that Brycer1968 is a friend of the little people. Yes, go, yes!! yes!!!
brycer1968
That confirms what GizmoDuck says, that the main advantage of the bike-like position is ergonomical rather than aerodynamical. Back in the days when I rode bikes, I had a drop handlebar. I did not really like the dropped position ergonomically, but (especially in headwinds) I used it and noticed the aerodynamical advantage. (Or at least that’s what I attributed the speed gain to.) So that’s what I would have expected for such a unicycle too. Not so, according to those with experience now.
Thanks. I now see what you mean. Initially when I read your…
…I understood the backbone to be the rear bone of the dog leg, in which case it could not support the front of the frame. Now I see that the backbone is the “main” tube of the upper frame.
It seems from both your photos and your drawing that indeed the frame does support the front of the seat. But why? Surely a unicycle seat is designed to be held at the seat post with no other support?
I think the saddle location bit is mostly my picky-ness rather than a really solid reason, but to be clear, I’ve removed most of the steel stiffener plate in the saddle and cut up/removed portions of the plastic seat base, then plastic welded it back into its new narrower position. The plastic welder elected to add a “shear panel” to the nose, but its still not as strong as the uncut seatbase was with or without a steel stiffener plate . . . hence the need to rest the seat nose on the frame.
Arrgh, hope that makes sense.
B
the elbowpads/time trial postition: needs some prectice, but it’s only a little different then hold on the front handlbar. at the moment i don’t prefer the time trial position, i’m not used to and i feel a little “unsafer”…
thanks for the hint with the thin walled chromo, i’ll check that out…
mounting: thats easy!
…i’m not sure if i’ll make a video, i put a lot of effort in this project and i’ll first make it perfect (at least for me) and maybe a video will follow…and i can tell, it looks like someone is riding a b*** 
I’ve been lurking on this thread since Ken started it, being fascinated by seeing some people’s ideas and experiences with random set-ups.
I have cobbled together a way of putting a bike saddle onto my already extended handlebar (I’ll get a picture up soon) and have had a couple of tries with it.
So far I have found:
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It’s pretty sketchy to mount as it is so easy to slip forwards on. I never hold the long part of my handle to mount anyway, but even holding part near the front of the bike saddle was not very secure. It probably just needs practice though.
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Riding on the flat is fantastic. I haven’t had time to go for a proper-length ride to see how the comfort lasts, but for starters it feels great.
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Uphill on anything beyond gentle slopes is near impossible. I normally move my hands from my long handle to the KH seat handle once the gradient gets above 8% or so, and stand straighter upright so that my leg force goes straight down. With the bike seat this just didn’t work as the seat wanted to move/rotate over backwards through my legs if I pulled up on anything attached in front of it, and with only the nose of the seat between my legs I couldn’t control the hard side-to-side twisting force of uphill pedalling (it gets like riding seat-out-back!). Bikes don’t have this twisting force problem, so you can stand off the saddle and just have a hands+feet interface.
This was on an ungeared 36er, so I couldn’t shift down gear and spin gently uphill while still on the long handles. That may well work better, as you don’t need to use this much torque uphill?
I’m amazed at turtle’s success with his set-up - It’s great that it works so well for you. But for me I really need to find a better way of doing the hard uphill bit or I’ll have to admit defeat for now and go back to uni seats.
Sam
I agree to everything you said. I have had similar experiences with my setup, which is a nimbus nightrider with 102mm cranks right now.
I guess you’re on short cranks as well. Climbing would probably work better with 125mm cranks or so… I didn’t try that yet.
Thanks for joining Sam, I was afraid of the hill climbing but I haven’t had a chance to test mine on hills due to the snow. (I’ve just ridden it around the block a couple times, yes in the snow)
i tried it today again on a real steep part (onroad), now it worked even holding the normal handlebars (but as i said, low gear, long cranks) sure it worked better holding on the rear handle (the T7 part), and it’s a bit like riding rodeo, but holding there i could also ride uphill in the big gear.
and still, it’s also no problem to but a uni seat uni on it with those things:
wow it’s been ages since I’ve checked out these forums, and damn, this is the best thread I can remember.
In terms of riding uphill, just some food for though:
On a bicycle, there are two wheels. This is important. When you pull back on bike handle bars, this translates into more force on the pedals, useful when riding uphill or accelerating. A backwards force on the handlebars will be braced by the rear wheel; all that force goes to the pedal, letting you push with more force than just gravity pulling your body mass.
On a regular unicycle, we can a similar thing: pull up on the handle. This produces a downward force on the pedals, in addition to your body weight.
On these unicycle designs, pulling back on the handlebars will give no force advantage on the pedals. There is no back wheel to brace the frame, so pulling the handle bars will simply rotate the frame backwards around the wheel and push the seat behind you.
Since these unicycles only let you use the force of your body mass* to climb a hill, you need longer pedals/lower gear for more leverage.
I think I would want a handle in front of the seat if I had one of these, as well as the handlebars. Perhaps this would also help with other activities that require a lot of force, like mounting and idling, though, who really idles on a 36er?
I’ve got a question for the guinea pigs here: how do they ride backwards?
*You could actually pull up on the handlebars, for some small amount of force, but nowhere near the forces you can use on a bike or regular unicycle.
I’m not sure your physics is correct. Firstly, you don’t pull ‘up’ on a bike any more than you should be pulling ‘up’ on an extended unicycle handlebar. You should be pulling ‘towards’ you, if at all. Most of the time when I’m riding my bike or unicycle, the hands are just resting on the bar, unless I’m in a flat out sprint. Having a bar to pull against when applying lot’s of force with your legs shouldn’t really be affected by where your axis of rotation is.
Also, if you pulled with too much ‘upwards’ force on a bike, you get the effect of popping a wheelie, especially if you’re going up hill at the same time. Similar thing happens with an extended unicycle position…the seat slips underneath you and you tip over backwards.
I finally went for a ride yesterday since it was 50 degrees (F) out and sunny! Contrary to what Sam said, I had no trouble climbing and I rode to the steepest hill in town (which, I admit isn’t ridiculously steep) and climbed it on 102mm cranks. It was difficult but not any more difficult than normal. One thing I noticed is that it is easier to climb if you put a little pressure on the handlebars. Near the top of the hill, where it was steepest, I grabbed onto the handlebar right in front of the seat. It gave me a little more torque but it also made me feel like I was almost riding seat-out. What I found most difficult about the new set up was stoplights. It was much harder to stillstand, so what I would do is sit there hopping with the handlebar between my legs and the seat behind me. When the light turned green I then had to ride seat-out for a few revolutions to get enough speed, then I would return to the saddle. I have yet to try any long hills as they are a good 1:30 of riding away and I only had time for a quick ride yesterday. The debate about climbing continues.