New Fusion Zero ultra low curvature unicycle saddle

[danger_uni]

Thanks for the review.
Can you send me a closeup photo of the torn buttonhole for the bolt? Send to kris at krisholm.com - thx.

Conventional Pivotal saddles have a slotted rubber piece for this hole. However, the existing design does not work well with a cutaway and is designed for use without a cutaway. I felt it would be uncomfortable (e.g. you’d notice it when sitting). Perhaps the manufacturer can keep the sewn buttonhole but add a laminated backing to the fabric so it does not tear. Will look into this.

Re weight and foam: I’m similarly lightweight: 1.8 m, 65 kg. I also agree with you that a heavier rider will compress the foam further - hence the need to make sure the foam is either firm enough (for the existing foam thickness) or thicker/bulkier. Offroad I am finding the existing foam has better shock absorbancy than a tester prototype I have with softer foam, again because in the latter case I bottom out the foam on an impact.

Kris

[Philippe]

@danger_uni

Re weight and foam: I’m similarly lightweight: 1.8 m, 65 kg. I also agree with you that a heavier rider will compress the foam further - hence the need to make sure the foam is either firm enough (for the existing foam thickness) or thicker/bulkier. Offroad I am finding the existing foam has better shock absorbancy than a tester prototype I have with softer foam, again because in the latter case I bottom out the foam on an impact.

Kris

Not tested your Zero saddle yet but with my 90Kg I noticed that firmer is better than thicker.
I suffered with Fusion freeride so I purchased Fusion slim, Fusion street and custom made aramid fiber base+hand shaped foam(low curvature ) then one Nimbus flat.
Clearly preferred fusion street (less curve and bottom out on an impact than Fusion slim) and Nimbus flat and low curve custom.

With thick foam I compress the foam ; the result is one “front to center” pressure No need of a drawing I suppose …

[anton005]

Ugh!

Well, there doesn’t seem to be many larger riders posting here so I guess I will.

I’m 6 feet 1 inch, 210lbs. I don’t put in crazy long distances like a lot of the folks here, a good ride for me is 10-15 miles with a lot of shorter 5-6 mile rides in between. My longest ride was 22 miles. The main limiting factor in my distance rides is my saddle hurting me.

Got the seat last week, read through this whole thread, threw it on my 36er set it up almost flat, quickly changed to it pointing up (with 2 notches showing in back), quick ride around, changed to 1 notch showing, felt good enough to try a short ride.

Day1:
Put in about 5 miles, felt fine (not gonna say good or great) after 20-25 minutes the pain hit me, luckily thats when I hit a big hill so got some relief from the seat. By the time I got home I felt the same as the crappy saddle I was using before.

Day2:
I switched it to up all the way, no notches showing. Similar ride (a bit longer), felt good on the saddle, I could really feel being on my butt bones, found by altering my posture and hips I could move it around and not keep on the same spot all the time. Then all of a sudden after 20-25 minutes the pain hit again… once again saved by the big hill. Made it home, felt like Shaquille O’neal kicked me in the behind. That was 2 days ago, haven’t been able to ride since cuz my ass hurts so bad.

Now I’ve read all the stuff here, and this seems almost on par with what others have been going through. I think I’m willing to give it another ride or two, but it’s not looking good for the Fusion Zero

I like the width of the saddle a lot, not having the chaffing on inner thighs is great.

The saddle should come with a jar of Aspirin, its too f’ing hard. This coming from someone who rides a bike with a brooks saddle (no padding) without bike shorts and has no problems.

[danger_uni]

Thanks for the feedback. That is a pretty quick adjustment, it took me a dozen rides to get used to a low curve saddle originally. Saddle foam is so tough; impossible to get it right for everyone but your feedback is well taken. Another issue is: do you design the foam so it feels great right out of the shop, or after the rider has put in a couple hundred kilometres? It’s a bit like shoes - the first means the foam might be broken down just as it’s getting good, and the latter has the risk of dissuading riders at the beginning.

Couple of questions: were you wearing bikeshorts? T-bar touring handle? I already posted it above but here’s a link to my setup for most riding. Perhaps something to consider.

[anton005]

@danger_uni

Thanks for the feedback. That is a pretty quick adjustment, it took me a dozen rides to get used to a low curve saddle originally. Saddle foam is so tough; impossible to get it right for everyone but your feedback is well taken. Another issue is: do you design the foam so it feels great right out of the shop, or after the rider has put in a couple hundred kilometres? It’s a bit like shoes - the first means the foam might be broken down just as it’s getting good, and the latter has the risk of dissuading riders at the beginning.

Couple of questions: were you wearing bikeshorts? T-bar touring handle? I already posted it above but here’s a link to my setup for most riding. Perhaps something to consider.

I was wearing bike shorts. No handlebars, I’ve tried the T-bar, put about 100 miles but never much liked the position it put my body in. Yeah, I know I am particular, but thats just the way I am… I like things to fit me well, and if they don’t ,no big deal, I just find something that does.

I can appreciate that a saddle might need to be broken in. My problem is if I can only ride 3 miles without getting saddle sores, it’s going to take me a miserable long time to break it in.

[danger_uni]

Fair enough. If you have a chance to try the T-bar for an extended period, maybe take a 2nd look if you feel like it, because the adjustability should let you put your body in just about any position. Re the saddle - personally I didn’t like the nearly curveless design at all after 2 rides. It took about a dozen rides to dial over to the new approach, including the foam & shape. Hopefully that will be the case for you as well.

[MilanMUni]

I rode for about 400 km on and offroad with Zero. Yesterday I tilted my saddle all the way up on my KH26 (O ridge visible) and rode 39 km. I don´t understand it but I have no soreness from the saddle!!! After ride I tried FF saddle on my friend´s uni and I had strange feelings. It was uncomfortable to sit back on FF

I´m going to tilt back the Zero saddle on my KH36 and try it on road. It was not very comfortable in first rides but now it´s great (on 26" offroad).

Hope this help someone…

Kris, you are right. Thank you for all your answers and experiences you give us.

[Lutz]

I used the zero saddle for the last two month but until yesterday mostly for Muni where I dont sit that much. Yesterday I did a 2.5 hours cross country tour (I have no idea how many km but I think the time matters much more than the distance traveled) in the end the seat hurted a little bit but less than with other saddles I tried before. Sorenes on my legs from rubbing them against the front of the seat while pedaling is much much better. I still think I havent done enough riding to be sure but so far best saddle I ever had.
I use the saddle on a KH24 inch with 150mm cranks and have it a little upright (one notch visible if I remember right).

[YooNeeNoob]

why can’t i find one of these seats? can’t the little elves down at KH crank 'em out faster? I will buy one the instant i can find it for sale.

[MilanMUni]

I rode 30 km on my KH36 with Zero today. I tilted the saddle all the way up before ride. After ride I had the same feeling like after ride on my KH26. No pain! I´m very hapy now.

[CyberRider]

Update - now loving’ it!

I now have 300 mostly hilly kms on my 36er which I bought with the Zero saddle, and I’m very happy to report it’s now broken in (or it’s broken me in). I rode 33kms yesterday in two hours without stopping, including about 5kms dirt road, and the saddle is no longer holding me back! My skill level and strength have improved a fair bit, and I’ve progressed from 145 to 137mm cranks and disk brake. I think the breakthrough was increasing my riding to twice a week and reducing tyre pressure. I don’t think I’ll ever be ditching the padded bike pants though.

Here’s a pic of my set up. Any flatter seat angle and I have to keep consciously shuffling back on the saddle. I set the bars as high as possible while still being able to use the saddle handle for the really steep stuff. Feedback welcome as I am a novice distance rider (yes I know that cable could be shorter).

Great work Kris on producing a more advanced and ultimately more comfortable saddle!

[waaalrus]

I brought my KH Fusion Zero to Unicon17 in Montreal and switched it between my 20" basketball unicycle and 24" freewheel unicycle. On my 24" I spent a long day at Mont-Tremblant, participated in the WNBR, and rode around Parc de Maisonneuve and the gym. On my 20" I got through two round robins (8 games the first day from 9am-7pm and 4 the next) and two semi final games. At no time time did I worry about or experience any type of saddle soreness. When I put my 24" back together and rode it around last night the saddle felt exceptionally comfortable. There may still be some getting used to for 15+ mile rides but I’m very happy with it and am thinking about getting a second.

[MilanMUni]

This is my last review. I rode 60 km/1300m on my KH36 with Zero saddle today. I have no pain after this quite a long ride with one break. If I want I can ride again tomorrow without problem. Thank you for your help and answers! Zero is very good saddle but there are some things which can be better.

[Chrashing]

I’ve been riding with a KH Zero and am enjoying the added comfort.

I have the seat angled up slightly in the front. My previous KH seat was angled up quite a bit in the front for comfort and wanted to try that with the Zero. I went to angle the zero seat front up again and found I was at the end of the pivot range of the seat post. The post head hits the seat base.

I have a pretty standard 'Macneil pivotal seatpost. Do other seatpost support greater angle ranges?

I may try cutting a row of teeth off the pivot post to allow it to pivot further. Not sure the seat bolt will pivot further, or if the post will remain stable. Has anyone tried this?

[jtrops]

@Chrashing

I have a pretty standard 'Macneil pivotal seatpost. Do other seatpost support greater angle ranges?

It may just be the way it looks in the photo’s, but Kink makes a Pivotal post that looks like the mount is rotated up a bit. You could call Danscomp and ask them. It may be a solution for you. Of course, to get the higher angle you would flip it backwards, but that would give you a huge adjustment range!

[danger_uni]

Glad to hear you are liking the Zero!
FYI, stock just came back in at UDC USA.

To answer your question about adjustment range - cutting a row of teeth probably will not allow it to pivot further because the seatpost bolt would hit the end of the slot.

That said at 24 degrees the Pivotal angle adjustment is quite large, with the highest angle exceeding the maximum adjustment range of the KH adjustable seatpost.

The angle options are 0,6,12,18, and 24 degrees (basically indices as they don’t really correspond to angles on the saddle). 24 degrees has the back of the seatpost interface directly contacting the saddle. At 18 degrees you don’t see any Pivotal ridges but there’s one shelf below the back of the seatpost plate.

It seems like 18 degrees is the most popular option, followed by 12 degrees for some riders with an extended touring handle. These are the two options I personally prefer for a short (or no) T-bar and extended T-bar, respectively.

The above angle range is actually pretty close to what you see used by a lot of DH bike riders. Hang out in Whistler village and you’ll see hundreds of $5000+ DH/Freeride bikes with this configuration - saddles with almost (or completely) zero curvature angled up in the front, for an upright riding stance.

A much smaller proportion of riders use 6 degrees and hardly anyone goes to zero. On the flip side, most riders angling up to 24 degrees switch to 18 degrees as soon as they have gotten used to the saddle. Personally, I rode at 18 degrees for everything for a long time, before going to 12 degrees on the extended touring handle on my 36.

Kris

[Chrashing]

Thank you for the answers!

It was my mistake. Turns out that in my haste to tryout the new seat, I didn’t notice the post was asymmetrical. It wasn’t until I saw the photo of posts listed by jtrops that it occurred to me that I might have the post in backwards. I’ll get it right tomorrow.

[Chrashing]

Adjusted the seat/post this morning, and it turns out it is symmetrical .

Checked the angle of my seat, and turns out I like a 20 degree angle. Measuring the angle up of the front of the seat , while the unicycle frame held straight vertical. I laid my tablet across the fairly flat seat top surface, and used an app to measure the angle. It seemed consistent.

[saskatchewanian]

Hey Kris

I don’t know how much it would cost to produce a custom seatpost but what do you think of a post with a slightly offset spline interface, say rotated 1.5˚. This could double the adjustment points by flipping the post arround between points.

instead of 0,6,12,18, and 24 degrees you would have -1.5, 4.5, 10.5, 16.5, and 22.5 degrees turned one way and 1.5, 7.5, 13.5, 19.5, and 25.5 degrees reversed giving an adjustment range from -1.5 to 25.5˚ with 10 possible adjustment points with only 3˚ separation between each.

I have bought a seat when it first came out and macgyvered a way to mount it on a nightfox so I am not sure how much the 6˚ increments matter but it does seem sort of coarse from one who hasn’t yet used a pivotal post.

[danger_uni]

@saskatchewanian

Hey Kris

I don’t know how much it would cost to produce a custom seatpost but what do you think of a post with a slightly offset spline interface, say rotated 1.5˚. This could double the adjustment points by flipping the post arround between points.

instead of 0,6,12,18, and 24 degrees you would have -1.5, 4.5, 10.5, 16.5, and 22.5 degrees turned one way and 1.5, 7.5, 13.5, 19.5, and 25.5 degrees reversed giving an adjustment range from -1.5 to 25.5˚ with 10 possible adjustment points with only 3˚ separation between each.

I have bought a seat when it first came out and macgyvered a way to mount it on a nightfox so I am not sure how much the 6˚ increments matter but it does seem sort of coarse from one who hasn’t yet used a pivotal post.

I think having an interface angled at 1.5 degrees is a good idea. After riding on the Zero for a couple of years now, I’d put it as a nice to have rather than an essential feature (e.g. I think the vast majority of people will be OK with the existing angle options), but it’s something that I’d like to offer.

Given that Pivotal posts are a ubiquitous bike component it’s not something I’d prefer to do on my own though - hard to justify the tooling cost and (more difficult) the large minimums for ongoing manufacture. I know the owner of the Pivotal patent and we’ve chatted about it. So far not a lot of progress but I’ll keep working on it. If I did this I’d also increase the post length to at least 350 mm, which so far is not available. Longer than that becomes increasingly difficult to manufacture as a one-piece-forged post.

Kris