New Fusion Zero ultra low curvature unicycle saddle

Unicycles and Equipment
261

I rode 36 km/550m today on my KH36 with F Zero (only on asphalt). It was better, less soreness, but less km than at last time.

Picture shows my actual setup.

My recommendation on long distance riding with F Zero:

  • change your positions on saddle during the ride
  • use T-bar (make a little pressure down with arms, not only keep in hand/s)
  • do some breaks during rides (walk, make photo, sit on something else, …)
  • stand up for a while when riding
  • use b*ke shorts with padded in the right place

You always will have some soreness (even on b*ike sadlle…) but with right setup (like Kris says: right angle is the key) it´ll be better.
I wonder who will be the first that will make 100 km (miles) ride with F Zero :slight_smile:

Thank you Kris for all you are doing for unicycling. You changed my life in the best way!

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Kris, thanks for getting this seat to market, I know how expensive it is to bring a new product to market.

I wanted to hit on a few points that folks mentioned, including the seat angle and mounting location and how that relates to your position in (on) the seat:

With a curved set you are using the curvature of the seat to hold you in a certain position, however with a flat seat you don’t have curvature so instead you need to adjust the slope/angle of the seat to get the right position. I have a 6-8 degree upturned nose which works well for me.

In terms of seat setback, unicycle are not like a bike where you are locating your self between two non moving points (wheels), because the unicycle frame will rotate under your body and achieve an equilibrium over the single wheel. If you could adjust the seat post mountin location you would notice that you would adjust the seat up or down as the seat was moved fore or aft, but on profile the seat would appear to be at the same angle.

As for padding, I also rode Kris’s prototype seat and was able to compare it with my Flat Fish and my DIY flat seats. I found his seat to be firmer than I like, where my preferred seat pad is a Freeride with some minor whittlling. I understand how a hard seat can require an adjustment period, the seats on my mountain bikes are much firmer than the firmest unicycle seat, as well I have tried to model DIY flat seats with thing foam such as Nimbus Gel and Fusion pads. I’d like to see a more padded option.

Hopefully there will be a thick foam option in time OR someone will buy the Zero and use their own foam and DIY seat cover.

I really like the seat post change, though it’s not microadjust, it is also not as likely to break and it is way easier to adjust!

All we need now is a muni handle :slight_smile:

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Have been thinking about this. Everyone’s preferences are just so darn different, both for saddle angle and handle position, which make it hard for design. That is the nice thing about the T-bar - it works well for such an enormous range of preferences. I am really liking the T-bar set up very close to the Zero front handle (with plastic handle removed), as a dedicated muni handle for XC and All-Mountain riding.

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He Nurse Ben!

Welcome back to the forum!
What have you been doing all that time? New hobbies?

I agree with the padding options. I think the zero is a bit too firm too.

Greetings

Tom

265

Today I had some good UPDs resulting in the uni rolling along by it self with the seat dragging behind. I realize that the back of the seat is actually touching the ground with the padding/seat-cover and not the bumper as I would expect. My seat is set to the fairly standard one ridge visible in the back with the seat tilted up in the front.

Have anyone done anything smart to extend the rear bumper so that it has a function or are people just planning not to fall too much? I noticed on the scratches in the back of my seat that the bumper does touch the ground and get scrapes after the seat padding has been compressed, but the seat it self extends further than the bumper. The cover remains without too bad scratches so far, so the fabric at least feels tough.

I also think I need to apply some locktite to the pivot bolt treads as it seems to be getting loose after some weeks.

Otherwise it is starting to become very comfortable. I used to be rather numb in the sitting area after a trip, but I do not feel any numbness or soreness at all after my trips now.

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See there from Pierrox :

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Hmm, that is not pretty at all, though I guess it works. I think I’ll see if I can’t find some other solution.

Kris, in my opinion this is perhaps the only design flaw on your otherwise excellent seat.

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I UPD a lot and noticed some abrasions on the seat in the rear area above the bumper after a couple days of riding. I decided to use Gorilla Tape to help protect it. My plan is to replace the tape when it wears through. I feel the shape of the bumper could be changed so that it extends higher to cover the area which suffers a lot of wear without affecting the ride.

Here is what my rear bumper looks like after a couple weeks:

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Wow that is a lot of abrasion!
I agree that the bumper doesn’t protect quite as well as I’d like. That could be slightly helped by getting rid of the small bulge in the foam at the back, but I don’t think it would eliminate the issue. Same with raising the bumper: this would require new tooling (=expensive solution) and again I’m not sure it would entirely work because of the angle the saddle hits the ground. Using a more durable material for the rear panel would provide the widest coverage, as long as it wasn’t too stiff (e.g. influenced saddle comfort). Will look into this. In the meantime, Seam Grip is a very effective way to repair small tears and increase abrasion resistance:

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Thanks for the link! I feel the rear bumper is great protection against the initial seat drop and that the additional abrasions come from secondary dragging along the ground, particularly on the final action as the unicycle comes to a stop. I may be the extreme example of these types of UPDs since I ride freewheels which tend to drag for longer on the ground (gaining speed down hills and sometimes hopping over roadside ditches). However, I used to get the same abrasion area on my fixed wheel unicycles; it would just take longer to make a hole.

271

I did my first ride on my new Zero yesterday. This was on Pittsburgh, my old-school MUni (KH 2004 frame), which I took out to the trails in Berkeley which include some of the steepest chutes and uphill challenges around.

I set it up leaned one notch back. The effect of sitting on my sit bones was immediately obvious; as someone who’s done a lot of long-distance biking, I really appreciated the feeling. I’m not able to get my butt back quite as far as I’d like; I definitely could see the value of having a handlebar with this setup.

It’s noticeably lighter than my previous setup (Thompson seatpost, rail adapter, Fusion Freeride; losing the rail adapter is a pretty big win).

The ride includes a grisly fire road climb, almost 50m of altitude gain in 200m distance. Only a few unicyclists have ever made it. I can do it but it’s still really hard.

Those of you who’ve seen my climbing style know that there’s a fair amount of Funky Chicken involved in steep climbs; I’ll almost stall with each pedal rev to set up for the next one. This involves a fair amount of moving the saddle back and forth. With the Zero, I felt like I was reaching further for the handle and didn’t have as much ability to flex my arm as I’m used to. But, I did make the climb pretty solidly.

Right after that climb, there’s my current Personal Everest; a longer climb, about 1km, not as steep overall but with several uphill obstacles. On that climb, I felt the same sense of having to reach further than I wanted to, but I was able to ride it as well as usual. (I fell off on the last obstacle, which is the same place I fell off last time). So overall, I wasn’t as comfortable on the uphill but it didn’t seem to hamper my riding.

From there, the ride includes several steep downhill chutes with roots and drops. Someone strangely, on the downhill I felt totally solid with the new setup. The handle position seemed natural, and I think the more solid connection with the saddle (better position, less foam) helped me control the unicycle better. I rode everything I usually ride, and a couple of obstacles felt more solid than usual.

After the ride, my grip arm was noticeably sore; the muscles used are a little different due to the different saddle position.

Overall, it’s a clear win. I’ll probably get used to the longer arm extension on climbs, and it didn’t seem to be a big problem anyway. It’s definitely going to be more comfortable for longer rides, and the butt-saddle connection seems more solid.

I’ve got a 22.2mm Pivotal seatpost on order to try it out on my basketball uni. It’ll be interesting to see how that goes.

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Kris some feedback on the new saddle.

The Zero is definitely more comfortable, a much more bike saddle like fit which is a massive improvement for unicycling.

However I haven’t been able to come up with a setup that I like that combines the new Zero saddle with your T Bar (fitted on a Nimbus Oregon muni)

Firstly I prefer to have some form of front bumper handle. I couldn’t come up with a satisfactory position for the T Bar that also allowed adequate room for use of the traditional front bumper/handle.

Secondly and probably more importantly, I found the amount of flex that results in the combination of the T Bar and Zero saddle disconcerting/not good on the trail.

I have seen the pics of the T Bar you are testing that curves up and also read about the stiffer saddle that might be available in the future - both of which seem like a good move.

For now though I’ve reverted to using a Freeride with a stiffener plate along with one of my own handlebars. The saddle isn’t as comfortable by any means which is a bummer (pun!), but all up it ends up a way stiffer/funner setup on the trail especially with the heffalump Oregon.

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Did you try mounting the T-bar angled as close as it can get to the front of the saddle, and cut narrower to 120 mm? After a few rides you might find it gives you good control - more even than the plastic handle. Plus, having the handle so close to the seat creates the least amount of flex given that this is a concern for you. Give it a few rides if you try this setup as like everything it takes getting used to. I just got back from a pretty technically difficult ride with it - both hard climbing and technical DH, and it worked well for both.

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FYI - have been testing a version of the saddle with softer foam. In sum: I am fairly sure that the current foam density is the right one, given the thickness of foam on the saddle. With the softer foam, shock absorbency is actually less, because it’s possible to bottom out the foam. That is particularly the case for the low curve saddle, compared to a curved one, because more weight is concentrated on the sit bones.

Cervelo makes some good comments on bike saddles here. I’d agree with their suggestion to “pick the firmest saddle you can stand”, but would add that a rider’s definition of this will change after a number of rides on a firmer saddle to get used to the new feeling.

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I tried it out for basketball, where I was expecting the narrow saddle front to be a problem, but it turned out to be fine. I don’t think the Zero has many advantages for basketball, but it’s just as usable as other saddles (I previously was using a Nimbus gel). For basketball I wound up tilting the saddle front up more than I did for MUni, it was at three notches. I’m going to try two notches with MUni today.

A side benefit for my basketball uni is that you can use it with any BMX pivotal post, so you can actually get a decent 22.2mm seatpost.

Swapping between the unis is really easy, so I might even go with bringing just this one saddle to Montreal to save packing space.

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I had first muni ride (xc, uphill, downhill, 35 km/1056m) with Zero today. Here is some reflection:

  • the narrower mid-section reduce chafing very well
  • ultra low curvature is great for control the unicycle
  • I still think that the foam is too firm because I have a little abrasions on the place where is the biggest pressure (I haven´t any on fusion freeride saddle after 60 km ride in forrest)

I wnated to change foam from fusion frerride or street saddle to Zero base, but it doesn´t fit :frowning:

Maybe I need some time for better feel in the saddle… :thinking:

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Nice to see your setup - it looks very similar to mine.
What kind of bar ends are those?

Kris

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This setup is the best for me. I only pull the T-bar to the highest position and straightened the bar ends to the horizontal position. I narrowed the T-bar to 110mm and put the LONGUS bar end with PROGRIP grips on it long ago. The originals were too damaged.

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As far as bar ends go, I LOVE the Ergo Giant Bar Ends. They are super comfortable as they have a rubber coating on them and they fit my hands like a glove. Plus they are super durable as mine have lasted several years now.

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Last week i bought the Fusion Zero second hand (someone in the netherlands didn’t really liked it) and had some short test rides with it on my way to work (street, sidewalk) and inside the company (corridor)
So far i tried it with one notch visible and no notch visible (i think one notch may be bettter) and i still have to adjust the saddel height (it’s still a tad bit too low i think).
The first impression was similiar too my first ride with the ghetto flat freeride, it feels like there’s is something missing (or bettter, you think there is something missing) and then you find out that it’s okay that way or even better.
So the initial flattness and the narrow profile are a great improvement over the old saddle.
The only things i’d like to criticize so far are the cover, the cushion and the backside bumper.
The bumper has no use, at least on a 36", but I doubt it will get many scratches on smaller wheels.
The cover looks good and feels good, but the buttonhole in the cover to reach the bolt is either sligthly too short or slightly missplaced. By my saddle and by others you immediately tear the cover simply by experimenting with the angle of the saddle, mounting it with the nose very high.
As for the cushion, i have to admit that the sitting position, due to the geometry of the saddle, seems to be perfect (sitting bones) but initially the saddle is to hard for my taste. But you have to take into account that I am slim and lightweight (1.60m, 58 kg) so even freeride cushion is perfect for me riding longer distances on the street because it is still firm enough that i sit on top of it when more massive rides will compress the cushion making it uncomfortable for them.
As soon as i found the correct angle and height and after riding with the seat off-road i’ll post more about it.

Greetings

Byc

P.S.: Many Thank’s again too all those who did experiment with flat designs, told others about it and propagated the idea, and to Kris for picking up the idea and realise it.