How about a fixed gear hub instead of a Schlump?

Unicycles and Equipment
42

I think you have this backwards :roll_eyes:

Hey John, I’m gonna hold my opinion on whether a 24/26 guni is easier or harder to ride on trails vs my 36er until I have one. I still think you guys are cracked, but if it turns out that you and Tholub are right, them you’ll see a brand new 26 guni wheel for sale.

I gotta say, that after reading some of these recent and “more honest comments” concerning gunis for trail use, I started considering giving up my guni reservation and offering to the first taker. I am not the only one who is going to be pissed off it a geared uni for trails is not useable, Terry also hase a 26 guni on order.

But, since it’s half paid for and on the way (hopefully) I figure the least I can do is try it and see what I think. I am hopeful that my needs and set up are going to work better than some have suggested…

43

I throw myself on this thread. Very interesting thread.

I have never tried a Schlumpf, but has built up a wheel. I will say that a Schlumpf has just as many advantages as disadvantages. A Schlumpf will never be the sole solution. A time trial bicycle is not the best solution in the mountain.

A KH moment 2011 hub weight 444g (Titan), a Schlumpf hub weight 1640g! Over 1000g is noticeable weight on a unicycle.

44

@Nurse Ben: Why do you want to ride a geared up 24/26 on the trail? Do you really think you’re going to be able to ride faster on technical terrain geared up? Did you think it was going to be easy?

Seriously, don’t throw in the towel yet. Having a geared unicycle is a wonderful thing, just not probably in the ways you’re intending. I’m sure you’ve ridden trail systems that had appreciable sections that are fairly flat and boring, well those are the spots you gear up. What about being able to link separate trail sections via some uninteresting road? No problem with a geared uni. What about going for a long road ride? I’ll swap out the offroad tire for a road slick and just go ride in place of my 36er; totally practical. There are so many ways to use the high-gear; probably just not on the very technical stuff.

45

Think about this a minute. The torque can ONLY be present while pedaling. You are ALWAYS pedaling a unicycle. More dramatically, this is a torque that would be noticed only when changing torque. Under non-accelerating conditions (F=ma) this force isn’t there.

The question is, has anyone noticed it at all? If so, it would be unnerving to a rider just like gear slop and the fore-aft torque.

46

Nope, at least not on my 36". The rules may be different for a uni intended for trails. My 36" has 150s. My ungeared Coker has 125s, which make it good for “mixed” riding. For road only, 125 is long. And I was considering 160s for my Schlumpf, for pushing the high gear. You definitely push harder in high gear, while pedaling slower.

Don’t sell it, you’re forgetting the fact that your Schlumpf will be shiftable. Unlike most of the discussion in this thread, you’ll have the best of both worlds (albeit with a heavy hub). A Schlumpf-geared MUni should be really useful. If you’re not happy with it as a MUni, you can always build it into a 29" or 36" wheel. A geared 36" makes road riding fun!

Yes it is. I still remember my first MUni ride on my 36" Schlumpf. It felt so sluggish compared to my Coker. I didn’t realize there was such a big weight difference in the hub!

If it’s there, it’s still there while maintaining speed on flat ground. You’re still pushing against friction and wind resistance so that twist must still be present, but to a much tinier degree. I have never felt it. Again, it must be a very small force to notice in relation to the uneven forces already present when pedaling a unicycle.

47

What got me in the guni path was a trail ride on my 36er. After reading Terry’s 36er thread and watching his videso, I pulled off my touring bar and went off roading 36er style. I wasn’t able to manage technical muni; I’m not Terry by any stretch, but easy single track and double track was quite doable. I wouldn’t go as far as to say that I liked it, but what I did come away with was the feeling of how awesome it was to go faster and to actually be cooled off by the wind.

So, my thought/plan was to have a 26 guni to use in this same way, except retaining the advantage of being able to ride technical trails as I do now on my 29er. I also liked the idea of being able to ride greenways and rails to trails paths on a geared up 26 vs a 36 because I am just not all that enamored with riding 36ers.

What I did not know until now was that folks were having trouble riding a guni on trails, this was not something I had seen in print until the other day. I am going to give it a shot for all the reasons I listed above, but honestly, if it doesn’t work, I’ll sell it. I have no dislike for what I ride now, there’s just times and trails that I want to ride faster, so that’s what I’ll try to do.

Still waiting on my hub, going into three months, what’s the standard wait time, four months?

48

You can ride technical trails on a 26 guni; you’d just do it in low gear. (Unless you’re Corbin). You use the high gear on easy stuff, low gear on technical stuff. That’s why it needs to be shiftable.

49

I have my 26 set up as road unicycle. High gear is good for most riding. Sometimes I hit steep enough stuff that requires low gear. Low gear on a 26 is too low though. Eventually I will probably have a 29 wheel built with the hub. It seems more practical for the road.

50

@ Nurse Ben: After you’ve finished whinging and your hub arrives, maybe you can fit it in your highly successfull Ti frame from a few years ago?

How did Pride go with Ti uni frames…Are they competing with Triton yet? :stuck_out_tongue:

“I’m telling ya, there’s a market out there…”

Great things come to those who wait and are willing to put it all on the line. Eg: Florian.

Hugs, Bob.

51

Does it matter much what Pride are doing now? Nurse Ben has apparently personally invested time and money into improving unicycle technology in the past, since he went through multiple iterations with a frame builder to get things going. You couldn’t always just order a Triton frame if you wanted titanium!

Nurse Ben’s putting money into Florian’s enterprise by buying a hub; I don’t blame him for being itchy about the wait, it’s a big purchase and an exciting one. I don’t think he’s doing the Schlumpf hubs a real disservice here, he’s just stacking up the pros and cons and considering other avenues that someone (maybe Florian himself) might like to persue.

But he’s considering other technology ideas as well; I agree with him that a fixed hub gear could be interesting and I think different ideas are worth exploring here. If a fixed hub gear could be made robustly and a bit more cheaply then I’d probably want one.

52

Huni-rex makes fixed gear unicycles: http://www.facebook.com/hunirex

I’m a little surprised no-one has mentioned Huni rex in this thread yet…

53

@Nurse Ben, my Schlumpf is on the way too, and I’m impatient too :o

First off, if you are getting a Schlumpf 24/26 as a lighter equivalent to a 36 for offroad, I can tell you that you will quite disappointed as the stock weight of the KH24 is more than the KH36, and if you add in the hub it will be quite a bit heavier.

Also, think what you will, but 24 geared is harder off road than the 36 (unless there are a lot of low hanging branches as your obstacles). I think this is mostly due to the fact that the 36 can roll and flow over many smaller bumps, while you must actively compensate for them on your (geared) 24.

Personally I’ve been really torn over whether or not to get a Schlumpf, and for a while I didn’t have the money so it was a non-issue. However, I’ve told myself that I’m not abandoning my ungeared unis by getting the hub. I think that depending on the situation, an ungeared 36 can be faster for road races, but that in general, a Schlumpf is faster. I’m fairly positive that if Sam Wakeling has been on an ungeared 36 in NZ, he would have won the 10k, but that the unicycling community has the idea that a Schlumpf will always be faster in a race. I can also tell you that if I had a geared 36, I would have done better in the marathon. I also think that different riders would do better with a geared unicycle vs. an ungeared. For example, Chuck is a really strong rider and good at pushing the big gears, but I think that when I get my hub, I will be in low gear much more often than either Corbin or Chuck would be. That is why I’m planning on use 125’s or 137’s on my geared 36 instead of the customary 150’s because I want my unicycle to actually be of use in low gear.

I don’t think that I would ever use a “fixed” geared up unicycle unless it was for traveling where the smaller size of the uni was a big advantage.

Sorry for the in-cohesive ramblings…

54

I have been holding out on responding to this thread to see what other peoples experiences have been but I have done a little bit (but not much) geared MUni. I find bombing a trail on a 36 is definitely easier than doing the same thing on a 24 in high gear. Part of that is there are some different techniques involved (and I am used to the bigger un-Guni. The 36er can plow over and through things that would stop the smaller wheel dead, but the geared wheel puts you closer to the ground and does not require you to counter steer as much allowing you to react faster to obstacles in your way. While I don’t notice the slop at all when riding on the road it does throw me off a bit on the trails.

If you think a G24 MUni is going to be lighter than your 36 think gain, my KH G24 with a lightweight tube and tire is heavier than my 36 with 48 spokes and long steel handle. It is the heaviest unicycle I own.

I recently got a Larry tire and have a custom lightweight 50mm rim on order and plan to see how I like geared fat MUni but have a nagging feeling that the hub will eventually end up in a road wheel

55

while we are on the subject of cheeper alternatives to a Schlumpf, how about a shiftable jack-shaft design? I don’t see why it couldn’t be done with a similar shifting mechanism as Schlumpf uses.

Of course with external gears you would loose the symmetric wheel build, flange width, sealed system, etc. But you could potentially choose your own gear ratio, and maybe keep the symmetric build by putting a disk on the other side and requiring a super-wide frame like most 36ers and the new Oregon.

56

I forgot about them. I hope somebody will have them at Unicon XVI, where they could get some great exposure and word-of-mouth for the rest of the world.

That covers the dead weight aspect, but not the rotating mass aspect. The smaller wheel will have some advantages, as saskwatchewanian pointed out. But a lot of the smaller wheel’s relative responsiveness may be eliminated by the gearing, so it might still ride a lot like the bigger wheel in terms of responsiveness. And then there’s the flow thing where the bigger wheel also has the advantage.

I find this to be true, depending on the situation. I think I still prefer an ungeared 36" for the occasional MUni ride, but that’s got more to do with the specifics of the trail than anything else. I’d feel very differently about it if my favorite trails/rides had long sections of pavement or easy dirt between them. Also having the old Coker was a big advantage when my Schlumpf died during my century ride. But when it comes to riding any long distance, where there’s a lot of flat like there is around here, it’s definitely geared 36" ftw.

You proved the first part of that for us, in the Unicon XV 10k. There’s no question that ungeared can be faster depending on the conditions. In the case of that race (for those that weren’t there), it was basically dead flat, but had lots of 90-degree turns in it. Ungeared was more responsive.

I also think the “in general, a Schlumpf is faster” is true, but again it depends on the ride. For me, the high gear is only useful when it’s level or a little downhill. It doesn’t take much of an upgrade to slow me down, and for the steep downhills, I’m still learning to trust my brake enough to go fast. That’s why my Schlumpf 36" is a no-brainer for road riding around the (flat) Sacramento Valley. It also can be great on hilly rides, which will force you to get better at shifting. But if a ride is all hills, you might be better off ungeared.

57

Bob, or whoever you are, can bite my you know what!

Yeah, I do still have the Pride ti frame, it’s going back for repairs after i broke some welds. Would I go out on a limb and have one made again, you bet. Unlike some people, I put my money where my mouth likes to tread. Maybe you’d like to try the same or is it too much for you to sack up?

Back on topic…

Though I started this thread to discuss fixed upgeared hubs, it has proven to be a much a very informative thread on Schlumph applications and limitations. I really appreciate all the honest feedback guni riders have provided, I only wish I’d gotten it before making my down payment :o

I have been ridig unis for three years, not long compared to many of you. What I lack in time ridig I make up in time on the saddle, riding 3-4 x weekly year-round. I had always hoped to progress far enough in my riding that I could appriciate a guni.

As i have progressed in my skills and comfort level, things that were daunting only a year ago are now econd nature, I can only hope that riding will continue to become more and more natural, though my dream of riding an off roqd stage race are still way pie in the sky :astonished:

For the past nine months I have been very happy riding my 29er when things are dry and tight, only switching to a Larry outfitted uni when it gets sloppy or scary. The guni was going to be my way of going faster on the trails so I could cover more ground, get further down the trail in the sme amount of time. What I think I’ve learned in reading all your responses it that really he guni is going to help me only in getting to the trails, but once on the trails it’s back to low gear but with a boat anchor as a hub.

Having built up a very light 29er for my every day muni, I can already really notice the weight difference when I swap out to the Oregon; which is not hardly as heavy as a 26 guni. So, what to do, what to do…it is a gawd awful load of cash, suprised my wife even went along with it :roll_eyes:

Odds are I’ll offer up my hub to whomever steps up first with a deposit, but then again, a geared hub is the mack daddy of dream unis, so I think I’m just gonna keep thinking on it over the long weekend and see what sort of inspiration comes to me as I ride.

Thanks again for the all the constructive comments, it’s good to get other opinions on such an expensive purchase.

58

When I first got my Schlumpf I felt that way. The smallest bumps on the flattest trails caused my to tense up and jerk forward and back. I’ve described it before as… it felt like the uni was in control, instead of me being in control of the uni.
But the more I ride it, the more I’m getting comfortable with it. I also have no experience on any uni greater than a 26", and that was only a few short street rides. So I’m not used to the higher speeds.

Now I’m flying around trails, feeling my 3" Duro compress with the rolling up and downs, and leaning my torso hard to make the turns. It’s getting more and more fun with every ride.
I’m still cautious with it on any significant downhills, and shift into low gear for tight or unfamiliar sections.

I guess it depends on the trails you ride. If there are constant climbs and descents, it will be hard to use. But if there are flatter areas in between, you’ll eventually be loving it!

For like 3 months I only used my high gear occasionally to get a taste. I was having so much fun progressing on the trails without the high gear, and every time I tried it, it felt wacky. And shifting was very difficult for me. Then I switched to my regular hub for a muni-only race, and didn’t bother switching back to my Schlumpf wheel for months. It wasn’t until the winter when I couldn’t ride the snow covered trails that I hit the snow packed roads. With nothing better to do, I started getting it. Now with a few months of actively using it on the trails, I LOVE IT!
My long winded point is, it took me like 9 months from ordering it to really feeling like it was undoubtedly awesome. Don’t give up on it too soon.

59

Riding in high-gear is definitely possible on sections of trails. While I doubt I’d ever have the skill to ride all the rough terrain I ride in high gear, I’ve found that on the routes I know well that I can shift to high gear on sections that I know are fairly flat and easy, motor along good then downshift when the next rough patch comes. This requires a level of shifting proficiency that I need to work on, but going with shorter cranks has really helped with that. Plus I have a trail system that has rough sections of trail interspersed with easier gravel and paved roads (in particular some of the bigger climbs) so high gear has helped enormously.

Lately I’ve been taking my 36er with 170mm cranks into the woods, mainly because it’s so much fun to ride fast enough to have the benefit of a breeze to cool you off, so hot and humid around here! Anyhow the 36er on easy to mildly rough trails has been fun and totally unlike my geared up 24er experience. The biggest difference in my mind is that with the ungeared 36er you have immediate response/feedback with the crank pressure you apply, with the 24er in high-gear you don’t have the immediate response, there is a bit of delay as the forces you exert on the cranks have to transfer though all the various gearing before your wheel can react. It’s this delay that gets you; however I think with more practice and experience I can get better at it; at least to the point where I can more comfortably ride in high gear the routes I can ride my 36er on. Then the limiting factor is wheel size and rollability. You can’t just roll over the same stuff as easy on a smaller wheel. I’ve tried going with lower psi in the 24" tire, but that just makes it harder to handle when riding in high-gear.

Overall I really love my KH24 GUni, it is my prize possession, it has been a wonderful investment and it is going to help me realize a long, multi-day trail riding epic that would be much more difficult without the benefit of a high gear… stay tuned!

60

I am totally enamored with riding 36er on Rails to Trials (an 8 food wide paved multi-use path often referred to as Greenbelt or Greenway) known as the (95% funded, 35% complete) Louisville Loop. Basically, it all comes down to where you ride.

That cool breeze is a major benefit of riding roads on the big wheel. Took my b*ke (Giant Butte) to a MeetUp of Louisville Mountain Bike Club at Cherokee (a Fredrick Law Olmstead) Park. Those guys have done a lot of work and the trails look great but keeping up with 10 guys barrelling ass thru 12 miles of fairly technical trail in just over 2 hours was quite a work out. If I’m going to be sweating that deep in the woods, I’m probably throwing (disc golf) a frisbee.

Still holding out hope for late July vacation on a new KH36G but it looks like I might be taking my (not too shabby) Impulse which I will be keeping fully intact as a back-up/loaner system. Those will be my only two unicycles for the forseeable future until my kids are old enough to start mountainbiking at which point I might put my hub in a KH26.

To get back on topic (sorry bout that) the two gear system (as opposed to a fixed higher geared hub) is imperative for the hills of Kentucky. Just getting out of the neighborhood and into Charlie Vettiner park is a feat of strength and that is with 150 cranks in 1st gear.

61

There’s no such thing as a standard wait time for Schlumpf hubs. I’ve heard from several ppl that the new batch will be shipped any day now (paraphrased). I waited a whopping 10 months for my first Schlumpf hub - but that was in 2005, “the early years”.