Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

I trust that Scientific American wouldn’t cite statistics that they haven’t looked into at least a bit.

I also came up with another reason why the head injury rates in Australia might have gone up after helmet enforcement.

If the statistic is per collision, than perhaps the rate of serious head injuries went up because the number of reported collisions went down on the basis that collisions where the rider wasn’t injured because the helmet prevented it never got reported, so only the more serious collisions are being accounted for in the rate.

Sorry - was a poor attempt at humour :frowning: wasn’t suggesting that those statistics were made up.

I think your reasoning is sound and part of what I was trying to get at with the stats, any statistic in isolation is often only partly helpful. The context is often needed.

There are also a number of theories about risk compensation. Basically if people feel safer they’ll do more risky activities. I know if I ride my motorbike without leathers these days I feel incredibly vulnerable.

lol, “mindless assumption”? At least wearing a helmet will keep your mind intact…if you still have one! :stuck_out_tongue: But please enlighten us with the “various evidence” that you referred to. There will always be exceptions to just about everything, like airbags that have caused deaths, but to simply not wear a helmet because you think it might not protect you 100% is a poor excuse not to wear one.

Ask Eyal Arioni if he thinks his helmet protected him from a serious head injury that he could-and most likely would have sustained if not for the helmet he was wearing. Eyal 'Rabbi Rock' Aharoni hurt in Muni spill

Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, semach.the.monkey <> wrote:
>
> Ian Smith wrote:
> >
> > If not, how to reconcile the fact that when states in Australia made
> > bicycle helmets compulsory for bicyclists, the rate of serious head
> > injuries went up?
>
> From that statistic alone, I can’t comment. However if there is a
> correlation between the serious head injuries going up and deaths going
> down then it can be explained fairly easily.

Sorry, injury rate went up, I don’t think the fatality and injury
rates have been analysed and published separately (at least, I’m not
aware of anyone, on either side of the debate, having done so). One
problem is that cycling is generally so safe (in the UK it is safer
per mile than walking) that there are so few fatalities your scatter
if you examine just fatalities is enormous.

regards, Ian SMith

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Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, ThisGuyIKnow <> wrote:
>
> Ian Smith wrote:
> >
> > If not, how to reconcile the fact that when states in Australia made
> > bicycle helmets compulsory for bicyclists, the rate of serious head
> > injuries went up?
>
> Is the rate injuries per collision, or injuries per bicyclist?

Per cyclist.

> There is certainly more information that is needed before assuming the
> difference was caused by helmets.
>
> If you want statistics why is that between 1996 and 2005, 97% of
> bicycle fatalities in New York City were riders not wearing helmets?

Perhaps because 97% of collisions involved unhelmeted cyclists? If
that were the case then it would suggest that helmets did nothing at
all.

Of course, if 98% of collisions were unhelmeted cyclists, it would
suggest that helmets were worse than useless.

regards, Ian SMith

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Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, MuniAddict <> wrote:
> Ian Smith wrote:
> > On Tue, 5 Aug 2008, MuniAddict <> wrote:[color=darkred]
> > >
> > > Think of it as an insurance policy; it’s there if/when you need
> > > it. And you never know when you might need it! :sunglasses:
> >
> > You also never know when it might make matters worse. Is that
> > cool too?
> >
> > This (apparently mindless) assumption that they must be a good thing,
> > despite various evidence to the contrary from experience in the
> > bicycling world, is what confuses me.
>
> lol, “mindless assumption”? At least wearing a helmet will keep your
> mind intact[/color]

QED, I think. Thank you for demonstrating my point so succinctly.

Why do you say that? What evidence do you have that wearing a helmet
will keep your mind intact?

> But please enlighten us with the “various evidence” that you
> referred to

I did. If you read the whole post you would have seen an example.

> but to simply not wear a helmet because you think it might not
> protect you 100% is a poor excuse not to wear one.

It would be. To choose not to wear a helmet because on balance there
is no evidence that it will protect you would be rational, however.

Do you know what a ‘straw man’ is? If not, congratulations - you’ve
just invented a famous fallacy all on your own.

regards, Ian SMith

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I wear a helmet 50% of the time. I should 100% of the time, but I sometimes leave it behind on paved ped/bike path rides. The wear a helmet 100% of the time when biking. 95% of my biking is off-road and you never know when a rock or branch is going to grab your tire and send you over the bars. I’ve hit my head in crashes, but never had a torsional head injury from a helmet, not even a pulled neck muscle. I don’t buy the torsional head injury arguement.

Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, surfcolorado <> wrote:
>
> I’ve hit my head in crashes, but never had a torsional head injury
> from a helmet, not even a pulled neck muscle. I don’t buy the
> torsional head injury arguement.

OK. Obviously, if it hasn’t happened to you it doesn’t exist at all.
I forgot about that, silly me.

Out of interest, however, what don’t you believe? That a brain can
suffer an injury from torsion? That a helmet won’t protect from
torsion? Or that a helmet is likely to make torsional injury
worse?

Have you suffered a life-threatening (or life-changing) head injury of
any sort? Do you believe in them?

regards, Ian SMith

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I don’t wear a helmet. I don’t even have one for unicycling (I think my bicycling helmet looks silly if I wear it while riding my uni). But I don’t really need one at my skill level. I’m not doing anything crazy, just riding normally and on my 24" Torker LX, I don’t really get that much speed to require a helmet. When I start getting more into tricks and other technicalities then I’ll definitely be purchasing a helmet.

Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On 06 Aug 2008 18:17:41 GMT, Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, ThisGuyIKnow <> wrote:
> >
> > Ian Smith wrote:[color=darkred]
> > >
> > > If not, how to reconcile the fact that when states in Australia made
> > > bicycle helmets compulsory for bicyclists, the rate of serious head
> > > injuries went up?
> >
> > Is the rate injuries per collision, or injuries per bicyclist?
>
> Per cyclist.[/color]

Sorry, that’s wrong. It was rate of head injuries receiving hospital
attention per mile cycled.

regards, Ian SMith

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On the public road (including pavements and sidewalks, rather than tracks and paths in the hills and forests) it is almost certainly true that interaction with other road users is a factor in most accidents involving pedestrians or cycles.

(Except in ice or snow, for example, there must be very few pedestrian accidents resulting in injury that do not involve a collision with a vehicle of some kind.)

Therefore the “accidents per mile” statistic is completely misleading.

  • A cyclist does a mile in, say, 5 minutes (12 mph).
  • A pedestrian does a mile in, say, 15 minutes (4 mph).

Taking these two rough and ready figures as a reasonable basis for calculations, it is clear that in a journey of a mile, the pedestrian is exposed to the risk of interaction with other road users for 3 times as long. That’s three times the exposure, so you would expect the number of accidents to be higher - even taking into account that the nature of the exposure is different.

When I say that the nature of the exposure is different, I mean, for example, that it is common for cycles to mix with motorised traffic, but pedestrians usually only do so when crossing the road.

There are many other arguments that could be advanced, but for now, I’ll say only that the “time exposed to risk” is more important than the distance travelled when comparing accident statistics.

I believe that with how light helmets are today, that there is only a slim chance that a helmet will make a torsional injury worse. However, the chance of a helmet protecting you from a head injury (concussion, cuts) is far greater.

No, I have not suffered a life-threatening head injury. concussions while snowboarding, but not since I starting wearing a helmet for snowboarding. I do believe in head injuries, a friend has 80% paralysis from the neck down.

Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, Mikefule <> wrote:
> Ian Smith wrote:
> >
> > cycling is generally so safe (in the UK it is safer per mile than
> > walking)
>
> On the public road (including pavements and sidewalks, rather than
> tracks and paths in the hills and forests) it is almost certainly
> true that interaction with other road users is a factor in most
> accidents involving pedestrians or cycles.

Indeed.

> Therefore the “accidents per mile” statistic is completely misleading.
>
> - A cyclist does a mile in, say, 5 minutes (12 mph).
> - A pedestrian does a mile in, say, 15 minutes (4 mph).
>
> There are many other arguments that could be advanced, but for now,
> I’ll say only that the “time exposed to risk” is more important than
> the distance travelled when comparing accident statistics.

Not necessarily - because most journeys have some function that depends
on distance, not duration. That is, people practically never say “I
shall go for a walk of 18 minutes duration” - they normally walk to
some destination (walk to school, to work, to the library, whatever).
Thus, if safety on the journey were to be a factor in choosing the
mode, using danger-per-hour is an indirect indicator also requiring
consideration of speed, but danger per distance is direct.

Danger per distance is thus a much better measure for transport
activities. Whether it is for unicycling probably depends most upon
whether you do it for play, or for transport. If play, you are
probably much more likely to go out for 30 minutes (or whatever)
riding, regardless of the distance that involves.

But, if you really are determined to stick with danger-per-time, I
could alternatively observe that cycling is very safe (in the UK it is
safer per hour than driving).

Normal A-to-B cycling (bicycling), even in proximity to motor traffic,
is safer than lots of other activities that don’t seem to regard
specific protective equipment. Trials, racing and so on is rather
different, but the automatic assumption (by most people, it seems)
that it is crazy to cycle without a helmet has little rational
justification (or at least, no more rational justification than
wearing a helmet to walk in the street, or drive, or walk down
stairs).

I suspect that no-one knows whether easy A-to-B unicycling is more or
less dangerous than walking or driving or skateboarding or
camel-riding, because I doubt the statistics are collected, let alone
collated or analysed. I think it’s reasonable, however, to believe
it’s not much more dangerous than A-to-B bicycling, and could well be
safer (it’s slower, I find I get a wider berth from motorists, I tend
not to mix as closely with motorists). I think sedate unicycling is
safe enough that it does not justify dressing up in special protective
clothing.

regards, Ian SMith

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imo:
helmet
big street/trials
learning new stuff
high speed
learning to ride
hard muni

no helmet
riding around
hopping less than 4 sets
most flat
easy muni

Mike, you rock.

Re: Helmets: Do you wear one? Why? When?

On Wed, 6 Aug 2008, surfcolorado <> wrote:
>
> Ian Smith wrote:
> >
> > Out of interest, however, what don’t you believe? That a brain
> > can suffer an injury from torsion? That a helmet won’t protect
> > from torsion? Or that a helmet is likely to make torsional injury
> > worse?
> >
> > Have you suffered a life-threatening (or life-changing) head
> > injury of any sort? Do you believe in them?
>
> I believe that with how light helmets are today, that there is only
> a slim chance that a helmet will make a torsional injury worse.

But surely lower weight makes it more likely - in a tangential impact
you have greater lever-arm than a bare head, so greater applied
torsion, and not equivalently greater mass, so proportionately less
torsional inertia, hence greater torsional acceleration. (Also, this
neglects that helmet on tarmac has a higher friction than skin and
hair on tarmac). It’s the high torsional acceleration that leads to
slip between brain and skull (effectively ‘sloshing’) and therfore
damage. AIUI.

> However, the chance of a helmet protecting you from a head injury
> (concussion, cuts) is far greater.

Almost certainly, but is a slightly greater chance of being a
vegetable an acceptable trade-off for a greater chance of reducing
non-life-changing injury like concussion or merely painful and/or
embarrassing injury like scalp cuts?

After all - I don’t think any of the proponents here said ‘always
wear a helmet, because it protects from cuts and grazes’, it was
generally all about serious head injury and brain impairment.

It may be acceptable, but it is not necessarily the obvious conclusion
that some suggest, IMO. Observing that the helmet wearing rate has no
clearly discernible influence on head injury rates in the real world,
I conclude that it is unlikely to have a net benefit on balance in any
incident. Given that, the decision hinges on minor matters - and I’d
rather accept the increased chance of minor injury (because it is so
rare) than accept the guaranteed every-time-I-ride minor discomfort
and inconvenience of a helmet. Other people may be more scared of a
superficial scalp wound, and less inconvenienced or discomforted by a
helmet. They may reach a different conclusion, and if they do so in a
rational manner, good luck to them. What is wrong, however, is to
automatically assume the helmet must be beneficial, and must reduce
the chance of life-changing injury, and must therefore be a good
thing.

regards, Ian SMith

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ian u use to many big words

That is consequent on him possessing a substantial and diverse vocabulary and exceptional linguistic facility.

shut up

As always, the anti-helmet argument can be summarised as, “I don’t like wearing a helmet, so I’ve thought of these reasons to justify not doing so.”

On the other hand, the pro helmet argument is often simply an expression of our society’s irrationally exaggerated obsession with safety at all costs.

We live in a world where children sit in front of the television set developing heart disease because their parents won’t let them go out to play in the dangerous wide world where there is an axe-wielding paedophile around every corner.

I was on a Muni ride today in the forest, a mile or two from the nearest road, and - not for the first time - I saw mountain bikers riding on wide smooth forest tracks with blindingly bright halogen headlights switched on.

It must work: not one of them had a bus pull out in front of them from behind a tree.