I hope that Innova will finally build a modern tyre. So we all could start using modern hookless rim from modern rim manufacturer
We could also ask Vee-Tire to build a road 36er tyre.
That would be great. But 36er seems to be the least of their problems. During the Covid-19 pandemics, they stopped producing T-Monsters to focus on more traditional tires, meaning they probably don’t sell many T-Monsters. I’m not sure they want to invest in a new 36er tire. But I may be wrong. And I hope so!
I think I’d be a happy chap if I saw a carbon rim work with a Vee tyre at its max PSI.
Sure the tyre isn’t really road focused but when I’ve pumped mine up to a high PSI on my standard rim I’ve found it to feel super fast rolling. No more sluggish that a NR lite. In fact it was less so perhaps because it felt like it reacted more to the PSI going up.
Off the back of this whisper re a 36” rim from LB I decided to ping them an email to express interest in such a thing - you know, stoke the engines so to speak. I got this by reply:
What inner width of 36" rim do you like? Also what about the rim width?
What tire size will you use? How much tire pressure will you use on it? We can design the rim accordingly.
I don’t quite know what to make of it. I guess it is the first intro before forwarding to an engineer - but if taken at face value it makes it seem do-able. However I do feel like I’m seeing signs of déjà vu (re the previous mission to get a rim built by another company)
I got the same reply after emailing them
I guess it’s worth giving it a try, while explaining them the issue we have faced with Nextie.
So, here is the mail I sent them this morning, with all the information I have:
Thanks for your reply!
Regarding a 36" rim:
- Currently, the only available tires are 2.25"-wide. The first three of them are produced in “heavy” and “light” versions by Innova: TA, Nimbus NightRider & Qu-ax King George. The last one is produced by Vee Tire and is called T-Monster. They are usually used with a pressure between 30 and 60 psi (except the TA tire, which is an old tire ; I wouldn’t expect it to be used with a light carbon rim).
- The rims we currently use are the following:
- Nimbus Dominator2, AKA Stealth2 (aluminum): 33mm inside, not sure about the depth, 36 holes
- QX RGB (aluminum): 26.4mm inside, 25mm deep, 36 holes
- Braus Alchemist (carbon): 28mm inside, 28mm deep, 32 holes
- Nextie Unicorn (carbon): 34mm inside, 32mm deep (see at the end of this mail for more info), 28, 32 or 36 holes
For reference, drawings for the Braus Alchemist and the Nextie rims:
As per our experience, too large rims are more prone to blow-outs. We would recommend to design a rim around 27~28mm inside. Regarding the depth, I don’t know much but Braus Alchemist rims seems really great. Please note that we’re kind of limited by the available inner tubes, too. We can’t have a too-deep rim or we will face inner-tubes supply issues. So sticking to what actually exists would be great.
- Here are some of the most used hubs:
- Schlumpf Geared hub: the only available gear box, so almost any advanced rider has one. They will be available in 32 or 36 holes, symmetric (disc outside) or asymmetric (disc inside), with a bearing pitch of 100mm or 125mm as of February 2023. Right now, we only have symmetric 100mm with 36 holes - except the BrakeFast adapter which leads to other configurations: asymmetric 36 holes, symmetric 32 holes or asymmetric 36 holes.
- Qu-ax Qaxle Disc hub: light 36-hole aluminum hub. The lightest, so probably the most used hub for light carbon unicycles.
- Qu-ax Qaxle Disc hub, 32-hole: same as the one before, except it is 32-hole. Please note we don’t have many 32-hole rims for unicycles so people usually go for 36-hole hubs.
- Kris Holm Spirit hub: 36-hole, 100mm bearing pitch, symmetric. Nothing fancy about this hub. This is probably the older and I guess not a lot of people buy these hubs now. They are mostly swapped from older unicycles to fit into new setups.
- Nimbus ISIS hubs: quite a lot of versions: 32 or 36-hole, 100mm or 125 bearing pitch, symmetric or asymmetric. Probably more popular in the US and in the UK, as they are kind of hard to get in Europe.
- There may also be some ISIS Mad4One hubs around there, but I’m not sure how many.
Least but not last, Nextie promised us their 36" carbon “Unicorn” rim last year. But it was a fail. As unicyclists, we were unaware that the 36" tires made by Innova were a bit out of spec. Nextie told us these tires have an oversized bead after we’ve had lots of blow-outs, with people trying to inflate their tires at 45+ psi. To mitigate this issue, Nextie developed a second - hooked or hookless, I don’t remember which one came second - version… But this did nothing and the blow-out issues are still there. The only solution is to use a Vee T-Monster tire, which were out-of-stock when the Nextie rims came out. They are now back in stock, but relying on a single manufacturer for the entire market seems dangerous to me. So we should aim for a rim that fits both Innova and Vee tires.
Feel free to add more info to this thread so I can forward to LB
After seeing this reply - I’ll leave it in your more capable hands Maxence.
Perhaps useful linking them to the green rim page that shows this:
I’d love it if they took inspiration from the Dominator2 rim regardless of whether this is the most modern design.
Backwards compatibility to older designed tyres should be key IMHO
Do we know the height of the sidewalls for each of the existing rims? It is never specified on the drawings, and according to schwalbe, it is a key element of the “derailing safety”.
Why would you like a new rim to be similar to the Dominator2 rim? IMHO, the Braus Alchemist rim profile looks better for my practice. But maybe yours is different, so you see different advantages
They’re definitely higher on the Dominator2 36" (Stealth II 36") than the Nextie Unicorn
Nextie stated that they couldn’t make the walls any higher due to physical machinery size limitations.
I guess because I know it works with the NR tyres.
I prefer the Braus design look compared to the Nextie -
But the key thing I was saying was take inspiration from the Dominator2. I think Nextie said they would / were doing so, but … it wasn’t the tested inspiration I’d dream up.
I’m not engineer. But my gut says - A Braus+Dominator2 baby would be great.
And so does the Braus rim
It’s just kinda harder to fit the tire in the rim. But once it is, it’s a real pleasure.
Exactly my opinion! Let’s make this real
I do believe you. But I have 1% doubt around the process to achieve that and then another 1% that the NR would blow off. It’s that 1% that could stop me from riding. So I would want to get to that sense I have with the Dominator2. That it isn’t going to blow off unless I’m stupid with it.
Perhaps I’d not have that if the Braus was using Schrader values or Presta tubes were plentiful. (Oh and ideally I’d prefer it at 36h)
But yes. Let’s make it happen
Yeah, that’s the two issues I see with the Braus rim. 32 holes & mandatory Presta tubes. But LB seems to be more flexible on these points. Let’s hope we will have the rim of our dreams
On the valve choice and spoke hole number, I think LightBicycle tend to drill their rims however you want them to, just as Nextie do.
Obviously if it had fancy moulding (like the Braus ones) then that’s not an option, but with a plain rim profile it makes sense to give your customers options.
Vee-tire started shipping this year a new T-monster of softer compound. I’m awaiting for a review about weight and differences. Rumors are about a new 36er TPU tube (thank god I can stop try to build/print my own one) within one year
Before sending it, we should come up with precise measurements of the current rims:
- diameter of the rim where the tire sits
- height of the flanges
- position of the hooks within those flanges
Ideally measuring this on the Nimbus, Nextie and Braus - which might also give us an explanation for the blowouts.
Probably @rogeratunicycledotcom is the most appropriate person to manage these points ?
I think the best course of action would be to supply them with the physical products to measure, rather than try and provide measurements ourselves.