Decisions, decisions... What size wheel, etc?

Unicycles and Equipment
1

I currently have a 20" unicycle with what I think are 140mm cranks. (do
you measure cranks from axle centre to pedal centre?). It has served me
well. I learned to ride on it and now I’m using it to learn to idle.

On occasion (see previous post about picking my Mini up from it’s service)
I’ve needed to travel 4/5 miles on this thing and it got quite tiring (and
quite sweaty, though not very uncomfortable since I converted it to an air
seat). I’m now thinking of investing in a second unicycle (or a
replacement) for longer distances and urban usage - whilst the 20" is nice
for getting around town, it’s a little slow (typically 6-8 mph. I got it
up to 10 but that was only for about 1 second*). For urban usage, a 24"
unicycle must surely be the best?

I’m not a speed freak but I’d like a little more oomph to help me feel all
that peddling is doing something useful. I felt like a hamster in its
wheel during the 4.5 mile journey into town - all that movement, barely
getting anywhere on that long road…

I was thinking maybe I could get:-

  • A 26" or 28" wheel (which would people recommend? Where do I get one?)
  • Suitable cranks (how long?)
  • A frame for 26"/28" wheels (saw one on the UK rendition of unicycle.com
    • “Frame, Numbus/Rogue 28 £23.00” (a reasonable price?, is this frame
      any good?))
  • Pedals.

And, using quick-release clamps (are these any good?) swap my air-seat &
seat post between the two cycles depending whether my mood is
business-like-places-to-go-people-to-see or
frivolous-I-think-I’ll-have-some-fun-on-one-wheel. With luck I should be
able to store both wheels and the seat in the boot of my Mini.

Is this a good idea? Unicycling.uk.com is strangely silent about spare
wheels. Should I just get a 28" unicycle and forget the whole
seat-swapping idea? What would be the most cost-effective option? Are
cranks difficult to add to a new wheel? Do wheels come with cranks? Is
this a record number of inane questions in a single usenet post?

All thoughts welcome.

Andrew xADF

  • I once used my unicycle to travel, in my nicest suit (only suit, in
    fact), to a concert where I sang in a barbershop group. On the way I
    lost control (a bump in the pavement I hadn’t seen) I began falling
    forwards rapidly and, not wishing to remove the knees of my nice
    trousers, I quickly decided to step off… only my nice shoes had quite
    big heels on them and I couldn’t get them up over the pedals in the
    1millisecond or so I had to put my paws onto terra firma… Fortunately
    my stumbling-stepping-off action acted as a very messy speed increase
    which got the wheel back under me. I reckon I broke 10mph then… And
    there was a strange smell.
2

I have only been riding about 4 months. I started on a 20" and found that, yes, you can’t go anywhere on it, for the reasons you stated in your post. I then bought a 24" Muni and thought oh, I can now go around the neighborhood. Wrong!! I rode it to work one day 2. 5 miles and it took forever. The wheel diameter is just two small for it, but better than the 20".

The rotations were just to quick. Go for the 26 or the 28" I don’t know much about the other questions. I am sure others will contribute.

3

I agree - 24" is certainly better for getting around town, but 28" is
better still. Personally though, I always take my Coker if I am just going
on an errand, from 0.5-15 or more miles. But a 28" with 5" cranks is more
maneuverable etc than a Coker and you might like that the best.

—Nathan

“teachndad” <forum.member@unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:9p08de$nie$1@laurel.tc.umn.edu…
> I have only been riding about 4 months. I started on a 20" and found
> that, yes, you can’t go anywhere on it, for the reasons you stated in
> your post. I then bought a 24" Muni and thought oh, I can now go around
> the neighborhood. Wrong!! I rode it to work one day 2. 5 miles and it
> took forever. The wheel diameter is just two small for it, but better
> than the 20".
>
> The rotations were just to quick. Go for the 26 or the 28" I don’t know
> much about the other questions. I am sure others will contribute.
>
>
>
>
> –
> teachndad Posted via the Unicyclist Community -
> http://unicyclist.com/forums

4

I agree with Nathan, if you really want to go places, just get a Coker.

Then again, if the Mini is your only car, a Coker may not fit in there at
all, let alone conveniently. I used to own a Bug, and I know a 40" wheel
will fit in there, but not my old 45"…

Also a Mini boot is fairly small, so you might check to make sure a 28"
wheel will fit in there.

> Unicycling.uk.com is strangely silent about spare wheels. Should I just
> get a 28" unicycle and forget the whole seat-swapping idea?

Yes. It is highly unlikely you would save money by piecing one together
yourself, unless you had an old unicycle to start from.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

“Freedom is not free”

5

A 26" or a 700c (28") rim will eat pavement much faster than a 24". I
recently purchased a 26" and put a 1.25" slick tire on it. It’s amazing
how fast and how far you can go with a tire that size. On the road the
slick feels like you’re floating on air. I’ve used 5" or 127mm cranks.

The good thing about a 26" wheel is the variety of tires available is
almost limitless, and very inexpensive as compared to a 24". If you want
to go a little bigger, a 700c rim (I think about 28") is also a great
option. It’s not Coker size, but you can get lots of standard cycle
cross tires in a huge variety, from knobbies, to slicks. Just make sure
the rim is really 700c, because I’m sure there’s a difference between
700c and 28" rims.

To be exotic both 26" and 700c also have tubeless rims and tires, so
you’ll never have a punctured inner tube again!

There’s much to be said for using standard sizes. You can take advantage
of economies of scale from the biking industry. The result is better,
stronger, more innovative and less expensive equipment. There’s a lot more
of them than us.

Don_TaiATyahooDOTcoDOTuk, Toronto, Ontario
http://torontounicyclists.tripod.com

Andrew Feldhaus wrote:
>
> I currently have a 20" unicycle with what I think are 140mm cranks. (do
> you measure cranks from axle centre to pedal centre?). It has served me
> well. I learned to ride on it and now I’m using it to learn to idle.
>
> On occasion (see previous post about picking my Mini up from it’s
> service) I’ve needed to travel 4/5 miles on this thing and it got quite
> tiring (and quite sweaty, though not very uncomfortable since I
> converted it to an air seat). I’m now thinking of investing in a second
> unicycle (or a replacement) for longer distances and urban usage -
> whilst the 20" is nice for getting around town, it’s a little slow
> (typically 6-8 mph. I got it up to 10 but that was only for about 1
> second*). For urban usage, a 24" unicycle must surely be the best?
>
> I’m not a speed freak but I’d like a little more oomph to help me feel
> all that peddling is doing something useful. I felt like a hamster in
> its wheel during the 4.5 mile journey into town - all that movement,
> barely getting anywhere on that long road…
>
> I was thinking maybe I could get:-
>
> * A 26" or 28" wheel (which would people recommend? Where do I get one?)
> * Suitable cranks (how long?)
> * A frame for 26"/28" wheels (saw one on the UK rendition of
> unicycle.com - “Frame, Numbus/Rogue 28 £23.00” (a reasonable price?,
> is this frame any good?))
> * Pedals.
>
> And, using quick-release clamps (are these any good?) swap my air-seat &
> seat post between the two cycles depending whether my mood is
> business-like-places-to-go-people-to-see or
> frivolous-I-think-I’ll-have-some-fun-on-one-wheel. With luck I should be
> able to store both wheels and the seat in the boot of my Mini.
>
> Is this a good idea? Unicycling.uk.com is strangely silent about spare
> wheels. Should I just get a 28" unicycle and forget the whole
> seat-swapping idea? What would be the most cost-effective option? Are
> cranks difficult to add to a new wheel? Do wheels come with cranks? Is
> this a record number of inane questions in a single usenet post?
>
> All thoughts welcome.
>
> Andrew xADF
>
> * I once used my unicycle to travel, in my nicest suit (only suit, in
> fact), to a concert where I sang in a barbershop group. On the way I
> lost control (a bump in the pavement I hadn’t seen) I began falling
> forwards rapidly and, not wishing to remove the knees of my nice
> trousers, I quickly decided to step off… only my nice shoes had
> quite big heels on them and I couldn’t get them up over the pedals in
> the 1millisecond or so I had to put my paws onto terra firma…
> Fortunately my stumbling-stepping-off action acted as a very messy
> speed increase which got the wheel back under me. I reckon I broke
> 10mph then… And there was a strange smell.

6

I extracted some inane questions from my original post which I’d really
like answered (sorry):-

Do you measure cranks from axle centre to pedal centre?

Is the Nimbus 28" Unicycle any good?

Are quick-release clamps any good?

Thanks for any help.

xADF

7

I am allowed to review my own products? well I will.

It is excellent, superb, brilliant and wonderful :wink:

ok I’ll do it properly… it is a standard Taiwanese frame which is
reasonable for rigidity and durability. The seat clamp is one of the
better standard ones on the market and is there to make it easier to set
up. If it is only to be used by your self I would suggest that you look at
one of the double seat bolt clamps that we sell - we have some really nice
ones in, but you can not see them in the catalogue because my digital
camera has just given up the ghost (new one next week!). The unicycle
comes with 127mm cranks (axle to pedal centre), these are nothing special
but are good ones to start with, once you comfortable go for 110 or 102’s
that will give you a good increase in speed and smoothness. The rim is
again a pretty standard cheap light weight narrow rim, the tyre could be
described the same way! A good upgrade would be changing it to a bigger
one. We sell a 700cx45 that I have been told is a radical improvement,
although I have ridden the one that Unicycle.com in the US sells and is
massive at 29"… Wonderful! One of the good things about the frame is
that it takes the 24"x3" tyres, so several people have bought a Nimbus 28
for the road along with a Max Traction wheel set to change when they want
to go off road.

Hope this helps.

Roger

                     The UK's Unicycle Source
                   <a href="http://www.unicycle.uk.com/">http://www.unicycle.uk.com/</a>

----- Original Message ----- From: “Andrew Feldhaus” <Reply@Thread.pls>
To: <unicycling@winternet.com> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2001 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: Decisions, decisions… What size wheel, etc?

>
> I extracted some inane questions from my original post which I’d really
> like answered (sorry):-
>
> Do you measure cranks from axle centre to pedal centre?
>
> Is the Nimbus 28" Unicycle any good?
>
> Are quick-release clamps any good?
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
> xADF

8

John Foss, The Uni-cyclone, wrote:

> [A] Mini boot is fairly small, so you might check to make sure a 28"
> wheel will fit in there.

hmm. I think you might have a point there. It doesn’t look like 28" will
fit - the car’s spare wheel is about 19" in diameter :slight_smile: 26 might fit
though… Is that worth travelling 4 miles on?

I’m not too keen on a coker - it doesn’t look street-maneuverable and it’s
twice the price of a 28".

> It is highly unlikely you would save money by piecing one together
> yourself, unless you had an old unicycle to start from.
I see.

Is £120 ($176) a reasonable price for a 28" unicycle?

The UK version of Unicycle.com isn’t as big as its USA counterpart (yet) -
are there any other UK suppliers which would carry a wider range?

Thanks for the info.

Andrew xADF

9

Regarding wheel size. A 20" is a total toy (and I mean that in a very good
way). It’s fun for goofing around on and working on freestyle skills.
However, it is not very fun for rides where you are trying to get from
point A to point B. But for riding in a small area and goofing around it
is the best.

A 24" will get you from point A to point B faster and a 24" is the
standard size for track racing at conventions. It’s still small enough and
maneuverable enough to do freestyle skills on. It’s maneuverability makes
it good if you need to ride through crowds of pedestrians.

A 26" gets to be big enough that you can cover some distance without
feeling like a hamster. A 26" also has a wide variety of tires available.
A fattish cruiser bike tire 2.25" or larger would be great for city type
riding. This size is also good for riding down curbs, hopping up curbs,
handling rough sidewalks (I think that’s a pavement for those in the UK),
riding down stairs, etc. It’s the perfect size for a good city ride when
you don’t have to deal with dense crowds of pedestrians.

A 28" goes faster, but I’m not aware of a good fat 700cc (or 28") tire.
All the 28" tires I’ve seen have been too skinny. IMHO, you need a 2" or
larger tire on a city cruiser unicycle. The fatter tire will absorb the
bumps better, handle riding off curbs better, roll over sidewalk cracks
better, etc. If you can find a good fat 28" tire then this would be a good
size, but otherwise I’d suggest going with a 26". A big part of what makes
a Coker so magical is the fat 2.25" tire. Skinny tires are bad.

Now you know why you can never have just one unicycle. :slight_smile:

I have tried the seat swapping on some of my unicycles and I quickly gave
it up. It was too much of a hassle for me. Getting the seat off and then
getting it readjusted on the new uni took too much time.

Unless you are going to be sharing your uni with other riders, I’d avoid
the quick release. A double bolt BMX seatpost clamp is the best way to
keep the seatpost in place. Everything else will twist when you drop the
uni or get rough with it.

john_childs

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10

Andrew Feldhaus <Reply@thread.pls> wrote:
> 26 might fit though… Is that worth travelling 4 miles on?

yes, quite resonable for that sortof distance, consider putting a slick
tyre on if your useage is on road rather than on dirt, its more comfrtable
and probadly faster with a slick on tarmac.

> I’m not too keen on a coker - it doesn’t look street-maneuverable and
> it’s twice the price of a 28". Is 120ukp (176usd) a reasonable price for
> a 28" unicycle?

Very resonable. buying a 26inch muni from a bike shop will cost you more
than that. The 28inch nimbus fram seems pretty good, I’ve bought one
recently to take a 20inch monty/onza wheel and its eems fine. ( got a big
frame as I had a number of short seat posts sitting in the shed, ditto
cranks and pedals)

> The UK version of Unicycle.com isn’t as big as its USA counterpart (yet)
> - are there any other UK suppliers which would carry a wider range?

No, Unicycle.uk.com is the widest range in one place in the UK for
unicycle specific things. If you can’t see what you want in the catalogue
, drop roger an e-mail and ask, he might be able to get it. Spare wheels I
expect come in that catoragry, ask and see:-)

sarah

–
British Muni Weekend September 14th-16th Bracelands Campsite, Forest of
Dean http://www.vimes.u-net.com/bmw.html

11

Thanks for the help. It seems a 26" Slick is the way to go.

Does anybody know somebody with a 26" unicycle and a Mini
(http://www.pmail2.fsnet.co.uk/mini.jpg :slight_smile: who has succesfully put one
into the other?

Andrew xADF

Sarah Miller wrote:

> Andrew Feldhaus <Reply@thread.pls> wrote:
>> 26 might fit though… Is that worth travelling 4 miles on?
>
> yes, quite resonable for that sort of distance, consider putting a slick
> tyre on if your useage is on road rather than on dirt, its more
> comfrtable and probadly faster with a slick on tarmac.

>> I’m not too keen on a coker - it doesn’t look street-maneuverable and
>> it’s twice the price of a 28". Is 120ukp (176usd) a reasonable price
>> for a 28" unicycle?
>
> Very resonable. buying a 26inch muni from a bike shop will cost you more
> than that. The 28inch nimbus fram seems pretty good, I’ve bought one
> recently to take a 20inch monty/onza wheel and its eems fine. ( got a
> big frame as I had a number of short seat posts sitting in the shed,
> ditto cranks and pedals)
>
>> The UK version of Unicycle.com isn’t as big as its USA
>> counterpart (yet)
>> - are there any other UK suppliers which would carry a wider range?
>
> No, Unicycle.uk.com is the widest range in one place in the UK for
> unicycle specific things. If you can’t see what you want in the
> catalogue , drop roger an e-mail and ask, he might be able to get it.
> Spare wheels I expect come in that catoragry, ask and see:-)
>
> sarah
>
> –
> British Muni Weekend September 14th-16th Bracelands Campsite, Forest of
> Dean http://www.vimes.u-net.com/bmw.html

12

I have a 26" Pashley and my wife used to have a Mini Cooper, where in the car do you want to put the Uni?

You might get the wheel in the boot (it is amazing what does go in) but your problem will be the frame etc.

The total length when set up for me is 43" (110cm) approx. This is unlikely to fit in the width of the boot considering the fuel tank takes up a fair proportion of the left hand side and the front screen washer bottle takes up the RHS. Also the pedals stick out and therefore restrict the angle you will be able fit the wheel.

Your best hope would be a quick release saddle and possibly removing the pedals.

Why don’t you borrow a wheel off a mountain bike and see if that fits first? Then measure the length the frame could be whilst still fitting (remembering how you’d get it through the door might be less).

I’m sure the Uni would fit in the back seat or possibly the front passenger seat, the hardest challenge would probably be holding the front seat up whilst manouvering the Uni through the gap!

Hope this helps

Keith

13

keg wrote:

> I have a 26" Pashley and my wife used to have a Mini Cooper, where in
> the car do you want to put the Uni?
The boot ideally.

> You might get the wheel in the boot (it is amazing what does go in) but
> your problem will be the frame etc.

> Also the pedals stick out and therefore restrict the angle you will be
> able fit the wheel.

> Your best hope would be a quick release saddle and possibly removing
> the pedals.

Hmm. I got a quick-release seatpost clamp today so I could quickly
dis-/re-assemble my 20" unicycle (with its 20" seatpost 'cos I’m 6’4"
(don’t believe anything people say about tall people not fitting in Minis)
) and that works pretty well. I see what you mean about the pedals -
they’re a bit inconvenient. You’re right, a spanner stored wtih the
unicycle and I could whip them on and off at will - fiddly, perhaps. The
frame on said little unicycle wasn’t much of a problem - although I was
worried about it rotating around the wheel and causing knocking noises -
just a case of wedging it somewhere or tying it down, I suppose.

> The total length when set up for me is 43" (110cm) approx. This is
> unlikely to fit in the width of the boot considering the fuel tank takes
> up a fair proportion of the left hand side and the front screen washer
> bottle takes up the RHS.
Fuel tank, sure, but front screen washer bottle? Not in my '91 cooper - my
front (only) screen washer bottle is under the bonnet (US read: “hood”) I
discovered that the boot, apart from the fuel tank, is quite wide - I
don’t think the height of the dissambled parts would be a problem.

> Why don’t you borrow a wheel off a mountain bike and see if that fits
> first? Then measure the length the frame could be whilst still fitting
> (remembering how you’d get it through the door might be less).
Good idea.

> I’m sure the Uni would fit in the back seat or possibly the front
> passenger seat, the hardest challenge would probably be holding the
> front seat up whilst manouvering the Uni through the gap!
Previously, before today’s purchase of the quick-release seat-post clamp
and a set of hex keys, the unicycle was in permanently in one piece. It
fitted nicely in the front passenger seat (wheel in the footwell, saddle
over the headrest) and also in the back. It has been tricky to lift the
driver’s seat to put the thing in the back but with the saddle resting in
the convenient passenger’s storage- ompartment and the wheel behind the
driver’s seat it does fit quite nicely.

The idea about keeping it in the boot is so that it’s out of sight
(paranoia is only bad if it’s unnecessary) and so that I could, if I ever
got any, carry friends in the back seats.

I think what I might do is get the Nimbus 28", using it for
non-Mini-oriented medium distance journeys, and keep my current 20" in two
pieces in the boot of my car for unicycling emergencies and/or town usage.

I honestly can’t see a 28" wheel fitting in the boot of my little car.
I poked a tape mesaure into my boot today and I reckon even 26" would
be a squeeze.

> Hope this helps
It does. Thanks.

Andrew xADF

14

About a month ago, I upgraded from my 24" Schwinn to a 28" Pashley in order to cover more distance and more varied terrain. I plan to get a Coker eventually, but wanted to get used to increased size and speed gradually without sacrificing maneuverability or transportability. The Pashley proved to be the perfect in-between size, still easy to carry into the office and store by my desk, and a dramatic improvement speed-wise over my 24" for 8 mi commutes.

As far as size, mine measures 44.5" tall (the Gemcrest/Miyata air seat is nearly 3" thick and the lowest pedal position to seat top measurement is 35"–long legs, I guess), nearly 16" wide across the pedals (only 7.5"-8" wide across the cranks if the pedals were removed), and has a 29" x 2.1" tire. With the seat /seatpost removed, the uni would measure about 37.5" from wheel bottom to top of clamp. Hope this gives you a good enough idea.

If you still can’t find a suitable unicycle to fit into your Mini, perhaps that’s enough incentive to design a folding, collapsible, or telescoping uni.

Anne

15

all i can say about wheel size is, if you like to do lots of drops and
extreme stuff i suggest the 20 inch. it will last alot longer than
anything else. The 20" is also awesome for trials. dylan
www.extremeunicycling-bcmat.cityslide.com

16

That statement just made me think “If Bike Friday made a unicycle
what would it look like?”. It makes for some interesting ideas for
a folding uni. In keeping with the Bike Friday style it would
likely have a small 16" or 12" wheel and be a sort of mini giraffe.
See http://www.bikefriday.com/ for info on Bike Friday and their
folding bikes.

john_childs

>From: Anne <forum.member@unicyclist.com>
[snip]
>If you still can’t find a suitable unicycle to fit into your Mini,
>perhaps that’s enough incentive to design a folding, collapsible, or
>telescoping uni.
>
>
>Anne

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17

> That statement just made me think "If Bike Friday made a unicycle what
> would it look like?". It makes for some interesting ideas for a folding
> uni. In keeping with the Bike Friday style it would likely have a small
> 16" or 12" wheel and be a sort of mini giraffe.

There’s two things you need to do to “fold” or otherwise compact a
unicycle. Having the fork crown close to the top of the tire, and the seat
post start a short distance above that, a quick release at that point cuts
the cycle’s height in half. Then if there were an easy way to fold the
pedals, that would cover the other dimension for making a small package.
Otherwise you just carry a pedal wrench.

This works for a standard unicycle, but is not effective for a “fast”
unicycle. You can’t fold up a Coker. So that’s where you might try making
small-wheeled giraffes with gear ratios that make them go fast. But they
won’t ride as smooth or stable as something like a Coker.

Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

“Freedom is not free”

18

> > You might get the wheel in the boot (it is amazing what
> does go in) but
> > your problem will be the frame etc.

> > Also the pedals stick out and therefore restrict the angle you will be
> > able fit the wheel.

> > Your best hope would be a quick release saddle and possibly removing
> > the pedals.

I think you guys are going a little overboard here. The Mini has a tiny
boot. Lots more room in the back seat! Even if one unicycle fits in the
boot, if you have a friend and another unicycle, you still have to put it
in the back seat. If you have four people and four unicycles, you’ve just
outgrown your Mini (or need a roof rack).

Save the boot for your helmet and pads, and toss the uni in the back seat.

Have a nice day, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com

Never owned a Mini, but I had a Japanese copy, the 1972 Honda 600N
sedan…

19

I wasn’t saying that a folding, geared up, mini-giraffe with a smaller
than normal wheel would be a good uni or a practical replacement for a
regular uni. But it would be distinctively Bike Friday.

And one thing I’ve learned is that Bike Friday owners love their bikes so
there must be something magical in that design.

john_childs

>From: John Foss <john_foss@asinet.com>
>
>
> > That statement just made me think "If Bike Friday made a unicycle what
> > would it look like?". It makes for some interesting ideas for a
> > folding uni. In keeping with the Bike Friday style it would likely
> > have a small 16" or 12" wheel and be a sort of mini giraffe.
>
>There’s two things you need to do to “fold” or otherwise compact a
>unicycle. Having the fork crown close to the top of the tire, and the
>seat post start a short distance above that, a quick release at that
>point cuts the cycle’s height in half. Then if there were an easy way to
>fold the pedals, that would cover the other dimension for making a small
>package. Otherwise you just carry a pedal wrench.
>
>This works for a standard unicycle, but is not effective for a “fast”
>unicycle. You can’t fold up a Coker. So that’s where you might try making
>small-wheeled giraffes with gear ratios that make them go fast. But they
>won’t ride as smooth or stable as something like a Coker.
>
>Stay on top, John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone jfoss@unicycling.com
>www.unicycling.com
>
>
>“Freedom is not free”

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20

A Coker, although very much like mounting a Clydesdale horse, is also very much like driving a Cadillac. It is wonderful for long distances albeit a bit difficult on the downhills. It is not a particularly manueverable machine. The massive wheel demands that one keeps moving once started but also makes bumps and pavement irregularities disappear. The rider is WAY up high with great peripheral vision (over the tops of cars, vans, what have you). Tricks are not practical.

In comparison, a 24" is like a Mini Cooper (except it doesn’t have to be repaired constantly…I used to own a '67 Cooper-S). It is responsive and cat-like but the rider can feel a postage stamp when he rides over one. It weighs nothing and is easy to store and transport.

Owning both is a plus. If I had an infinite cash supply, my third unicycle would be another Mini.