Within the next several months I am going to try and complete both of the following two challenges:
25K (15 Mile) out and back flat time trial in 1 hour or less
100 miles (flat) with an elapsed time of 8.5 hours or less (aprox. 12 MPH average speed including stops)
Which ride do you all consider more challenging?
dan
Re: Coker Challenge
I know that both are presently beyond my fitness and ability levels. I
think that the 100 miles is the harder of the two.
Like you, I think that both would be significantly easier with a geared-up
hub laced to a 700c rim. In fact, I believe I could accomplish the first
already if I had a uni with large enough gearing. The 100 mile is something
I don’t know about. I’ve never done more than about 30 miles in a day and
that was at a leisurely pace.
-mg
“dan” <dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
>
> Within the next several months I am going to try and complete both of
> the following two challenges:
>
> 25K (15 Mile) out and back flat time trial in 1 hour or less
>
> 100 miles (flat) with an elapsed time of 8.5 hours or less (aprox. 12
> MPH average speed including stops)
>
>
> Which ride do you all consider more challenging?
>
> dan
>
>
> –
> dan
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> dan’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/78
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/19163
>
Re: Coker Challenge
dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com writes:
>
>Within the next several months I am going to try and complete both of
>the following two challenges:
>
>25K (15 Mile) out and back flat time trial in 1 hour or less
>
>100 miles (flat) with an elapsed time of 8.5 hours or less (aprox. 12
>MPH average speed including stops)
>
>
>Which ride do you all consider more challenging?
Well, that’s obvious from a ‘challenging’ perspective: The longer ride.
8.5 hours on anything is pretty awful, even if what you’re on is awful
pretty.
As for which is more doable, I’d say the shorter ride, again. On a flat
track, a good runner can transfer those skills to riding fast. If you are
athletic, you can do this one.
David
Re: Coker Challenge
“Dan” <dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
>
> Within the next several months I am going to try and complete both of
> the following two challenges:
>
> 25K (15 Mile) out and back flat time trial in 1 hour or less
>
> 100 miles (flat) with an elapsed time of 8.5 hours or less (aprox. 12
> MPH average speed including stops)
>
>
> Which ride do you all consider more challenging?
The century.
Re: Coker Challenge
“dan” <dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
>
> Within the next several months I am going to try and complete both of
> the following two challenges:
>
> 25K (15 Mile) out and back flat time trial in 1 hour or less
>
> 100 miles (flat) with an elapsed time of 8.5 hours or less (aprox. 12
> MPH average speed including stops)
>
>
> Which ride do you all consider more challenging?
definately the 100 miles although as you’re training for both speed and
endurance at the moment I expect you’ll be able to do it soon. The 25k
wouldn’t be too hard if you can find somewhere nice and flat without many
traffic lights to ride it. If you had access to a really boring running
track or something it’d be pretty easy on 125 / 110 cranks you could
probably do it now. I’d suspect there are quite a few people who could do
this now, I think Roger of unicycle.com is probably that fast for instance.
If you’re able to ride 8 hours + in the saddle already, then for the 100
then you’ve probably got past the major hurdle of being able to ride
comfortably for ages, so it’s just a matter of working up the pace to get a
bit faster and getting in lots of carbohydrates and water during the ride.
I’d recommend getting a speedo with a pace indicator and a big average speed
display and mounting it on a bar end or handle on your coker. Pace
indicators are nice for this sort of thing, basically it’s just an up / down
arrow which shows if you’re riding above, below, or at your average speed
and makes it much easier to keep your speed within a certain target range.
The big average speed display is really very cool, very easy to see if you
need to work a bit harder or slacken off. It’s given me an increase of 0.5
mph so far on the 6 mile ride to work just because it makes me push the
average up and stops you getting lazy and makes you compensate for any long
traffic light stops. Cateye Mity 3 has this feature, I don’t know which
other ones do, look for the ability to put your average speed on the big
display where the current speed usually is.
Joe
OK, I am going out this weekend to give the 1-hour 25K another attempt. Unfortunately I don’t think I am capable of doing it yet. I think I am a month or two away. For me it is a very difficult thing to do
I do think that I am ready to do the 100 miles in 8.5 hours. The problem is the HEAT. The ride would be impossible for me to complete in 100+ degree heat. With that said, that goal will have to wait.
I think it would be cool to make the ride a skill level. Most people have agreed that with adequate training they could do it. I would think it would be every bit as hard as riding backwards, or with one foot, or whatever. I don’t know foreshore because I’m not able to ride any other way but straight forward, with both feet. It would be nice to have something in there related to speed or distance.
It would be interesting to hear form a high level rider who has ridden, or is within reach of a 25K 1-hour time trial. Where would the difficulty lie when comparing a fast 1-hour ride like the 25K with some of the skills in the 10 skill levels?
Anyone?
dan
Re: Coker Challenge
In article <dan.7hy2c@timelimit.unicyclist.com>,
dan <dan.7hy2c@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:
)
)I think it would be cool to make the ride a skill level.
Not if it requires people to buy a Coker to pass the level.
I think it would be much better to figure out a 1-hour distance target
for a 24" wheel.
-Tom
RE: Coker Challenge
> It would be interesting to hear form a high level rider who
> has ridden, or is within reach of a 25K 1-hour time trial.
I can’t claim that, though I have done a 9.5 mile race on a 24" wheel in
under one hour. So if I were in the same kind of shape I think I could work
my way up to 25K on a bigger (or faster) wheel.
> Where would the difficulty lie when comparing a fast 1-hour
> ride like the 25K with some
> of the skills in the 10 skill levels?
It wouldn’t. On the skill levels it’s level 1. Actually it’s “Rider Level”
(level 0) as it doesn’t require the skills of mounting or dismounting.
When we redid the original (1979) 4 levels to the 10 levels of today (mid to
late 80s), we took out everything other than skills you can do in a gym. The
only thing left not requiring a flat floor is the 10 x 10 obstacle (which
BTW generates the most questions and complaints of any skill). There used to
be a requirement to ride a mile in under 8 minutes (level 3), and another
requirement to ride while doing “another” skill, such as playing a musical
instrument (level 4). These were taken out in favor of a set of levels that
were more “skill” oriented.
There remains the possibility to do separate sets of levels for various
forms of unicycling, such as Trials, MUni, and racing. 25K in an hour would
be great on a set of unicycle fitness levels, but is not appropriate for the
kids in the gym who are trying to increase their “skills”. To them it’s
still level 1.
Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com <http://www.unicycling.com>
“This unicycle is made all from lightweight materials. But it uses a lot of
them.” – Cliff Cordy, describing the very heavy new prototype unicycle he
brought on the Downieville Downhill
Why do you say kids, John? The skill levels are age-independent, and so is the challenge they represent. I’m having a great time trying to pass the levels, and I feel a great sense of accomplishment when I achieve a new skill. My 13 yo nephew does too. It’s good that I got a head start on him, though! It’s also a challenge to try to stay ahead of him.
Re: Coker Challenge
dan.7hy2c@timelimit.unicyclist.com writes:
>I would think
>it would be every bit as hard as riding backwards, or with one foot, or
>whatever. I don’t know foreshore because I’m not able to ride any other
>way but straight forward, with both feet. It would be nice to have
>something in there related to speed or distance.
>
>It would be interesting to hear form a high level rider who has ridden,
>or is within reach of a 25K 1-hour time trial. Where would the
>difficulty lie when comparing a fast 1-hour ride like the 25K with some
>of the skills in the 10 skill levels?
Hard to say. I know there are ‘niche’ riders who get really good at their
favorite things at the ‘expense’ of other areas. There are excellent muni
riders who would not be able to walk wheel and would not qualify as level
5. There are excellent skills riders who can’t do much in the area of
trials or muni.
I think (and this is conjecture based on limited samples) that there is a
relationship bw riding fast and running fast. For example, my brother and
I were always the fastest runners among our classmates (at least until
high school), and we have always been able to ride pretty fast.
So riding 15mph for an hour seems to be more about stamina than about
learning to ride fast. It certainly isn’t easy to learn how to ride much
faster than you already can.
Your idea of riding a certain speed being on par with certain skills is
probably not far from the mark. I wouldn’t vote to include speed in levels
testing, tho.
By the way, Josue Bereto (sp?) from Puerto Rico, is an extremely fast
rider who happens to be level 10. And he turned 30 this year, so he’s in
my age category…
Hope this helps.
David Stone
Co-founder, Unatics of NY
1st Sunday / 3rd Saturday
@ Central Park Bandshell
1:30 start time after 11/1/01
RE: Coker Challenge
> Hard to say. I know there are ‘niche’ riders who get really
> good at their favorite things at the ‘expense’ of other
> areas. There are excellent muni riders who would not be
> able to walk wheel and would not qualify as level
> 5. There are excellent skills riders who can’t do much
> in the area of trials or muni.
Exactly. The 10 skill levels are basically aimed at artistic riding. They
mean “skill” in terms of things like the Standard Skill event.
Though I can picture a set of levels for Trials/Muni, I don’t see one for
racing. Some racers like to sprint, and others are into long rides. In
bigger sports (like what you see in the Olympics), you don’t see people
generalizing in all different events, which is what a set of racing skill
levels would do. So for racers, I think sets of local, national, and world
records are the marks to judge oneself by.
Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com <http://www.unicycling.com>
“This unicycle is made all from lightweight materials. But it uses a lot of
them.” – Cliff Cordy, describing the very heavy new prototype unicycle he
brought on the Downieville Downhill
Re: RE: Coker Challenge
The idea is to promote speed and distance unicycling. I assume you are referring to local, national, and world records set on 24-inch unicycles. These records are fantastic but are no significance to speed and distance enthusiast who are riding Cokers. I think the records you are referring to are set on a track, designed to promote small wheel unicycling. With the advent of the Coker, speed and distance riding has grown, and is undergoing a dramatic change. Wait until the Internally Geared Hub becomes affordable.
On the same note, the 100-mile record in 6 hours and 44 minutes is not a realistic goal for anyone either. It is my understanding that that record was set on a large pneumatic big wheel (larger than 36 inches). This record does not provide much inspiration or motivation to speed and distance enthusiasts who do not have access to this vehicle.
There are a large growing number of Coker enthusiasts who have nothing to gauge themselves by. I think its time to provide them with something. The 25K flat out and back time trial is a good start. It takes a lot of riding (training) in order to do it, and most riders can work to accomplish the 1-hour mark. It requires speed, power, and endurance in a single event. The 1-hour flat out and back TT is considered the mark of excellence in amateur cycling. Unicycling enthusiasts need a similar mark to shoot for.
BTW-If anyone is under the impression that 15 miles in 1 hour on a Coker is too easy than please be the first to record it. To my knowledge it has not been recorded by anyone yet, at least in an “out and back” fashion.
dan
RE: Coker Challenge
> There are a large growing number of Coker enthusiasts who have nothing
> to gauge themselves by. I think its time to provide them with
> something. The 25K flat out and back time trial is a good start.
I agree. The first of many records for Coker enthusiasts to strive for.
The reason you don’t like Takayuki Koike’s 100 mile record is because it
wasn’t set on a Coker. What you need is a Coker 100 mile record to compare
with your own machines. Someone will do it sooner or later, but don’t expect
Guinness to care if it’s slower than 6:44.
As the audience of Coker riders grows, it is only a matter of time before
someone starts organizing races for them. We generally have a single road
race at the NAUCC or UNICON, but this is only one little event. I don’t
recommend using Cokers on an athletics track, as the lanes are too narrow
and I think the combination of the Coker tire and the tartan of a quality
track would make for too much friction. Plus the track is too small for
Coker speeds, and damage to tracks (and riders) would be more likely, making
it hard for the smaller unicycles to get permission to use them.
I also would like to see us move away from 24" racing, and am promoting a
change to 700c. But this is not intended as something to do instead of Coker
racing, just a more sensible wheel size for the track. Bigger wheels should
race on the road, and be thought of more in terms of bike racing than track.
Or on a velodrome, fine, but you still won’t get much out of those banks…
> BTW-If anyone is under the impression that 15 miles in 1 hour
> on a Coker
> is too easy than please be the first to record it. To my knowledge it
> has not been recorded by anyone yet, at least in an “out and back”
> fashion.
Somebody set a bunch of records in the late 1880s, I think, on a
penny-farthing front wheel of unknown size. He got just under 15 miles in
one hour, I believe. He also established times for 1-14 miles, which were
probably records at that time. But since his wheel was probably bigger than
a Coker, maybe his times weren’t that amazing after all…
Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com <http://www.unicycling.com>
“This unicycle is made all from lightweight materials. But it uses a lot of
them.” – Cliff Cordy, describing the very heavy new prototype unicycle he
brought on the Downieville Downhill
Re: Coker Challenge
I agree that longer distant races are needed. It takes me 5 miles to get my
self going and only reach my peak speed at about 8 to 10mile. 25k would
make a lot more sense than the sprint of 10k that UNICON have at the moment.
The 100 mile record will get broken and by a Coker. It is definitely
achievable. I really should have a go at it my self but it would be more
fun if others would try it as well.
Roger
The UK’s Unicycle Source
----- Original Message -----
From: “John Foss” <john_foss@asinet.com>
To: “‘dan’” <dan.7jcrb@timelimit.unicyclist.com>; <rsu@unicycling.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2002 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: Coker Challenge
> > There are a large growing number of Coker enthusiasts who have nothing
> > to gauge themselves by. I think its time to provide them with
> > something. The 25K flat out and back time trial is a good start.
>
> I agree. The first of many records for Coker enthusiasts to strive for.
>
> The reason you don’t like Takayuki Koike’s 100 mile record is because it
> wasn’t set on a Coker. What you need is a Coker 100 mile record to compare
> with your own machines. Someone will do it sooner or later, but don’t
expect
> Guinness to care if it’s slower than 6:44.
>
> As the audience of Coker riders grows, it is only a matter of time before
> someone starts organizing races for them. We generally have a single road
> race at the NAUCC or UNICON, but this is only one little event. I don’t
> recommend using Cokers on an athletics track, as the lanes are too narrow
> and I think the combination of the Coker tire and the tartan of a quality
> track would make for too much friction. Plus the track is too small for
> Coker speeds, and damage to tracks (and riders) would be more likely,
making
> it hard for the smaller unicycles to get permission to use them.
>
> I also would like to see us move away from 24" racing, and am promoting a
> change to 700c. But this is not intended as something to do instead of
Coker
> racing, just a more sensible wheel size for the track. Bigger wheels
should
> race on the road, and be thought of more in terms of bike racing than
track.
>
> Or on a velodrome, fine, but you still won’t get much out of those
banks…
>
> > BTW-If anyone is under the impression that 15 miles in 1 hour
> > on a Coker
> > is too easy than please be the first to record it. To my knowledge it
> > has not been recorded by anyone yet, at least in an “out and back”
> > fashion.
>
> Somebody set a bunch of records in the late 1880s, I think, on a
> penny-farthing front wheel of unknown size. He got just under 15 miles in
> one hour, I believe. He also established times for 1-14 miles, which were
> probably records at that time. But since his wheel was probably bigger
than
> a Coker, maybe his times weren’t that amazing after all…
>
> Stay on top,
> John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
> jfoss@unicycling.com
> www.unicycling.com <http://www.unicycling.com>
>
>
>
> “This unicycle is made all from lightweight materials. But it uses a lot
of
> them.” – Cliff Cordy, describing the very heavy new prototype unicycle he
> brought on the Downieville Downhill
>
> rec.sport.unicycling mailing list -
www.unicycling.org/mailman/listinfo/rsu
>
>
Re: Coker Challenge
When I mentioned the 15 mile time trial to Guy Hansen he said it sounded
easy. Next time I see him I’ll ask if he’s done it yet.
-mg
“dan” <dan.7jcrb@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:dan.7jcrb@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
> BTW-If anyone is under the impression that 15 miles in 1 hour on a Coker
> is too easy than please be the first to record it. To my knowledge it
> has not been recorded by anyone yet, at least in an “out and back”
> fashion.
>
> dan
Re: Coker Challenge
When I mentioned the 15 mile time trial to Guy Hansen he said it sounded
easy. Next time I see him I’ll ask if he’s done it yet.
-mg
“dan” <dan.7jcrb@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message
news:dan.7jcrb@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
> BTW-If anyone is under the impression that 15 miles in 1 hour on a Coker
> is too easy than please be the first to record it. To my knowledge it
> has not been recorded by anyone yet, at least in an “out and back”
> fashion.
>
> dan
Re: Re: Coker Challenge
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Roger Davies
[B]I agree that longer distant races are needed. It takes me 5 miles to get my
self going and only reach my peak speed at about 8 to 10mile. 25k would
make a lot more sense than the sprint of 10k that UNICON have at the moment.
The 100 mile record will get broken and by a Coker. It is definitely
achievable. I really should have a go at it my self but it would be more
fun if others would try it as well.
Roger
The Coker is a great distance vehicle. It will get you where you want to go fast enough to use as an effective commuter vehicle. As of now, because we have nothing else, it must suffice as a speed and distance vehicle as well. But for optimum efficiency, for most riders, the wheel has to be larger, or inches of travel per revaluation must increase with the internal geared hub.
My guess is that the record holder in the 100-mile ride had a unicycle set up that suited his speed and power capabilities. The wheel size and crank length combination enabled him to employ both speed and power equally for an incredible ride. I am not taking anything away from him. He was no doubt an extremely talented and fit rider.
Put this same rider on top of a Coker and there would have been very different results. The Coker is not set up to complement most riders’ speed and power capabilities. Spinning a 36-inch wheel, on flat terrain, at a cadence that will net 15MPH calls primarily on speed (aerobic capability) as the sole factor in the rides success or failure. Speed always translates to ones aerobic capabilities. Power stays pretty much dormant, unless a head wind or slight hill comes into play. A vehicle that limits ones ability to employ power is not efficient.
Training regiments that work the heart (speed) and save the legs (power) are designed to target the heart by lowering resistance and increasing cadence. The Coker is a perfect training tool for both runners and cyclist because on flat terrain optimal heart training is preformed without taxing the legs. With runners the characteristics of riding the unicycle mimic the motion more so than bicycling. It’s a perfect training tool. If coaches only knew!
With all that said, I think that it would take a special rider to beat the 100-mile record on a Coker. It would take a rider with a great VO2 max who is in tiptop shape. A good way to tell if you have this kind of capability is to do a 25K time trial. I am working diligently to accomplish 15 MPH for 1 hour. To beat the record you would have to average close to that for over 6.5 hours. My guess is that your 25K TT would need to be in the mid to low 50’s in order to get the job done. Should you decide to try for the 100 mile record I will be your best cheerleader! I on the other hand, am waiting for Harper to share his invention with the rest of us!
dan
Re: Coker Challenge
dan.7jcrb@timelimit.unicyclist.com writes:
>BTW-If anyone is under the impression that 15 miles in 1 hour on a Coker
>is too easy than please be the first to record it. To my knowledge it
>has not been recorded by anyone yet, at least in an “out and back”
>fashion.
In my Unithon ride, I rode the last 15 miles (of about 19) in under an
hour. I had started out slowly to try to give my brother time to warm up
(he hadn’t ridden in awhile). I then rode off as fast as I could,
averaging about 15.5-16mph for most of the ride. On a long, dedicated
route or track, I could easily maintain 16mph for an hour. The only
obstacle to such a ride is pain or numbness, and since I typically ride an
hour sans breaks on my ride from Manhattan to Brooklyn, tho it’s slower bc
of city traffic. On the bike path part, I ride over 5 miles in about 20
mins.
I am not saying that these rides are easy in general, but at this point,
they are easy for me.
David
Co-founder, Unatics of NY
1st Sunday / 3rd Saturday
@ Central Park Bandshell
1:30 start time after 11/1/01
Re: Coker Challenge
On Sat, 6 Jul 2002 17:43:03 -0500, dan
<dan.7e5hm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:
>25K (15 Mile) out and back flat time trial in 1 hour or less
Are you talking about 25 kilometers or 15 miles? The two do not
equate, as 15 mi is only 24.14 km.
Klaas Bil
Re: Re: Coker Challenge
David,
I have no doubt based on the miles you put in, and speeds recorded during previous rides, that you are capable of doing an out and back 25K TT in less than 1 hour. I have no doubt that Roger Davies can do the same. I suspect that so can Scot Cooper, Guy Hansen, and many others that I don’t know about.
We riders who are trying to get in shape to improve our speed need this kind of information to give us something to shoot for. Like yourself, other riders participating in various rides, have shared fast speeds with us, but none that I know of have dedicated an hour and put everything they have into an out and back 25K course. Maybe you could do 55 minutes or less. Finding a good course and putting everything you have into it is different than other types of riding.
Until a few good riders take the time to do the out and back 25K TT, we have nothing real to shoot for. Maybe the average speed of 15MPH for an hour is too easy. Maybe we need to increase the distance to 30K. Until I have more information I cannot make a good decision on a distance. I believe that this TT will help promote speed and distance unicycling.
I encourage you and other strong riders to ride the out and back 25K TT. Set the mark for us so that we have something to aim for.
dan