No, not much, but how much is too much? For example, my last real road crash left me with a broken bone that never healed properly. A similar crash might break that same bone again (having your shoelace wrapped around the spindle is basically the same as an unsuccessful un-clip).
In road riding the bad crashes are much more rare, but the speeds are high so again it goes back to how much risk you’re willing to tolerate.
For MUni, it’s more about the terrain you ride and your approach to it. If you’re aggressive and/or fast, even on relatively easy terrain you’re pushing it to be clipped in. But if you ride more relaxed, you can probably relax mentally as well and feel a lot better about being clipped in.
I still think that uphill riding/racing would be the best offroad use of clipless. But at least in my case, in uphill racing I don’t have any problem keeping my feet on the pedals. Speeds are slow so pedal grip isn’t a problem; but what you don’t get on conventional pedals is that 360-degree power stroke. You should have a lot more power and “dead spot resistance” with clips of any kind.
Now I want to try it. It’s hard (expensive) to get started with clipless if you’re not already invested in it with a bike. Unless you fit your friend’s shoes, you have to buy those too…
Using MTB as an example, there are forms of MTB where clipless isn’t generally used. Nothing to do with fear, more to do with common sense and technique, what shoe/pedal connection is the most appropriate for the style of riding (personal preference and genre).
Great point, given the type of trails and riding guys like Terry do, he might easily be compared to bike trials and I have NEVER seen a trials bike with clipless. Also, about half of the extreme DH and freeride folks ride platforms and I would doubt you would put them in the fearful class.
Once again if you want to use them, great, but for me the added risk (YOU WILL FALL HARDER) outweighs the benefits.
Joe, thanks for writing that up. It must have been somewhat painful, psychically, to relive that moment and to consider the before-and-after differences in your life. I was nervous for your marriage as well – your wife had a really demanding ride ahead of her that week, and she didn’t seem happy about it!
I’ve been curious about what happened to you ever since that day. I didn’t want to intrude. I figured that at some point, you’d discuss it. It’s good to know that it wasn’t the clips themselves that you blame for the disastrous outcome of that fall.
I hear what you’re saying about wet-pedal conditions. Rather than any type of clippy pedals (and shoes), I’ve opted for grippy pedals. With the right kind of sneakers or riding shoes (which is pretty much any rubber-soled shoes), you get a pretty solid grip that prevents rainy day slippage.
Another +1 here. I suggest AscenXion ride off a few big drops with just his toes on the pedals and tell us how his ankles fare before insisting that “clipless is the future of extreme muni”.
Ever since I switched to shoes with “sticky rubber” I’ve never had any trouble losing grip. I’ve put extra long pins on my pedals, trading extra grip for shorter shoe life… they really chew up that sticky rubber.
The technique requirement is essential, as no pedal / shoe combination will keep your foot on the pedal during the upstroke. This comes with experience, and isn’t rocket science… just muscle memory… IMHO.
The challenge I find in riding “extreme muni” is picking a line, maintaining balance and technique while staying on that line, and not running out of gas at any point along the way. Honestly, I fail to see how clipless pedals will help with any of this.
You have a thought, that thought pertains to something happening to you that you do not want to happen, and that thought holds you back. That’s called fear. But I really didn’t mean to offend you with a word, I didn’t even really realize that you didn’t use that word, I was just going on what you said, not trying to say anything negative about you.
And no, I do not share your other reasoning. I am not afraid, not at all. I feel much safer riding clipless. For me, there is actually less of a chance of injury, because my falls are so greatly diminished. Yes, I fall to my hands more often. All that means is that instead of stepping right of like I used to (much more frequently), I now have to put my hands down as I’m in too low of a position to comfortably run out a fall. However, my falls are so much less now, that overall I injure myself far less. (Most upds on bear trap pedals don’t result in injury, but a few do, and depending on the landing, some can be quite painful)
That’s why I really took it odd that you were the one saying what you said. Because you always struck me as quite the risk taker.
And while I greatly appreciate you saying that you are speaking for yourself, the insult is still implied. That my thoughts and actions contradict “common sense”, and that’s just not true. Clipless riding is not more dangerous, from my experience, it is actually safer. That’s all I’m trying to get across. And someone that has never tried them saying that they’re “pretty sure” that I’m wrong is just kinda insulting. But, I am truly not trying to be argumentative, and I hope that I don’t come across that way.
First, let me address this fear thing. I REALLY didn’t mean anything by it, as it seems that all of you think. I wasn’t trying to slight anybody in the least. I didn’t even realize that nobody had used that word, that was just the word that I used to summarize what people were saying. I wasn’t trying to psychobabble at all, just trying to relate to you guys. So, sorry for my unintended insults. However, again, you stating with no evidence that something that I have first hand knowledge of being very safe and effective goes against “common sense” is insulting.
Anywho…Mtb clipless actually hasn’t been around all that long. And it had the EXACT same response from most people as I am now seeing. Road riders used clipless first, then a few started touting the wonders of using them off road, and everyone called them kooks. Until a short time later, when everyone realized that the “kooks” were indeed correct. And now almost every advanced rider uses them. And muni really hasn’t been around that long. It is totally in it’s infancy. We’ll get away from the words fear and afraid, but the reason that clipless aren’t yet popular amongt muniers is that essentially everyone has thought how you guys think, and how everyone thought about mtb at first. That clipless might work well for those “other” activites, but it’s just not going to work for muni.
And to the moving your feet around on the pedals thing. I guess I can’t blame you guys for addressing issues that I covered in my “slightly” long first post, but that’s one of the things that I specifically addressed. I have ridden bikes all over the place since I was a little kid. And I have NEVER once wanted my feet anyplace other than EXACTLY where cleats place them. Yes I can see, just as you said that in some aspects of biking clipless aren’t used, that there are areas of unicycling that clipless shouldn’t be used for. Trials and big street and whatnot, and possibly huge northshore muni stuff. But for 90% of the muni that us non-northshorers have available, clipless is totally what we should be using. I am a strong proponent of having the correct musculature built up to safely accomplish what you intend to do. Weak, frail, and injury prone people should perhaps not use clipless, but that isn’t because clipless is bad, that’s simply because they aren’t “ready” for it. If you move your feet around on the pedals, then as ALL of the users of clipless pedals would seem to agree with, you do not have the correct musculature built up. And again, I REALLY do not intend for this to be a bashing statement, just my opinion on the subject.
To your last point, that muni includes lots of crashes, and a need for the freedom to bail instantly. THIS IS WHAT I’M TRYING TO GET ACROSS. I don’t mean to shout, only to greatly stress that sentence. I used to crash quite frequently, but now I just don’t. And it was night and day, without clipless on “Saturday” I fell all the time. With clipless on “Sunday”, I didn’t fall once. So no, for me muni is NOT about frequent falls, muni for me is wishing that I’d mess up and fall, because my crotch is starting to get numb. However, if it were about frequent falls, or indeed about the very infrequent falls that I now have, clipless STILL ALLOW that instantaneous freedom to bail. I keep saying this, and it seems that nobody believes me. (And maybe it truly is just me) But in my experience, I fall, I unclip. Nothing else to it. Never once have I had anything else happen to me. The only reason that I fall to my hands is because of the “angle” of my fall. But when I bail at the same “angle” that we must when not clipped in, ALL of my falls are to my feet, exactly the same as before. It REALLY isn’t more dangerous…in my experience.
Oh, and I don’t know if that was a little back handed dig at me, but either way, no the stuff that I ride isn’t northshore or socal downhill, but it is certainly not easy muni. At least by anybody other than KH’s opinion. Some of the trails that I ride, and unfortunately all of the part of the trail that was featured at NAUCC a couple years back is easier muni. But a great many parts of the trails that I ride feature very technical riding. And though some of you seem to believe that Michigan is the next Florida, we may not have mountains, but we certainly do have hills. And trail builders that really know how to feature the hills…over and over and over again. I’m not saying that I’m great or anything (I’m also not necessarily saying otherwise, as I’ve never ridden with anyone else) but I am fairly confident that I am in the upper echelon of muni riders, and I strive to ride to my limits.
And finally, I’m not sure where you’re even coming from with that “religious side show” comment. But I’m certainly not trying to make anyone drink the kool-aid or anything. I do, however, hope that people will begin to open their eyes to what I have seen. That clipless is INDEED a game changer. Just as it was for mtb it will be for muni.
I assure you, I can outperform my unicycle on any drop that you’d like, provided you buy me a new uni. As I’ve said previously (in this thread) my calfs are almost as big as my quads, as sad as that is. So this is just not an issue for me. And again, perhaps I’m alone in this. But the proliferation of clipless in mtb would seem to suggest otherwise.
However, I don’t ride like that anyways, and maybe if you do, clipless might not be right. But I just don’t see the need to do a singular activity that has a very high likelihood of damaging my equipment. I ride very technical, tight, twisty, hilly, rocky, rooty, bumpy trails, that’s what I find fun. A large drop here or there can be cool, but it’s not the kind of riding that I’m into.
I did say very early on, that I figured that clipless would bridge the gap between my skill and how I wanted to ride. So I can see where you’re coming from insulting me by stating that it’s not “rocket science”. However, both of us were wrong. Clipless does far more than just help out poor technique, I can’t say anything with more detail than I have in the past. Suffice it to say, that they are a completely new world.
As to the challenge of muni, you are correct in your summary. However, when you step up to things that are beyond the realm of being able to do those things, that is where clipless comes in. If nobody ever fell, then I’d say that you were right. But seeing as you all seem to agree that there is a necessity to accommodate numerous, quick falls in muni; I’m thinking otherwise.
The numerous falls that I see on YouTube all the time are the types of falls that I used to share. I now come very close to never falling. I don’t know how to make it more clear than that.
Oh, and btw thanks for attempting to belittle me several times in your post though, makes me feel like the good ole’ days.
I don’t see why this has become such a fight. Obviously there are pros and cons to using pinned flat pedals or being clipped in. With flat pedals there can be crashes caused by feet accidentally coming off the pedals; when clipped in there can be crashes caused (or made worse) by feet NOT coming off the pedals. With flat pedals you can move your feet around depending on the current terrain; with clips you have to stick to where you have the cleats.
I’ve used SPDs on bikes for ages, and before that I used traditional clips and straps. It certainly makes a big difference to security and pedalling efficiency on a bike, and far outweighs the slight risk of getting a foot stuck and falling over. Saying that, I have hurt my ankles and knees in crashes where my foot hasn’t released as I fall (bike bounces and twists over still attached to your foot). That’s more common with traditional straps done up tight for racing - SPDs tend to pull out if forced.
I have had times on a unicycle where my foot has been bounced off the pedal riding fast on rocky trails, or where I’ve accidentally lifted my back foot off the pedal on a steep climb forgetting I’m not on my bike with SPDs. I think in theory SPDs would suit my unicycling (mostly xc) well, and I have pedals and shoes already, so cost isn’t an issue (although my shoes are very much road shoes, not at all suitable for walking or running out of a UPD). But I don’t trust my unicycling skill enough at the moment to go for it - I reckon I’d hurt myself. Perhaps it’s an irrational fear, but at the moment it’s keeping me on flat pedals on the uni. I suppose I could run the SPDs really slack so they’re easier to get out of, but that’s what I used to do on bikes off-road when I started with SPDs and it becomes too easy to pull your foot out accidentally, rather defeating the point.
Anyway, I don’t think we should be arguing over this - there ARE benefits, there ARE risks; being clipped in suits some people and some riding styles more than others (same for bikes as well). The people who are riding SPDs love them and wouldn’t go back (as I wouldn’t on bikes), but they’re not for everybody or every situation. Pinned pedals and sticky shoes are way better than any other flat pedals I’ve used in the past, and at the moment they’re the best balance between security and easy release for me.
I’ve only been at this 2-3 rides a week for going on two years, so my opinion isn’t very informed. But despite the fact that I’ve had two pulmonary embolisms and have been put on blood thinners for the rest of my life, making it much easier for a good knock on the head to kill me, I plan to give clipless a go for the mild XC muni I enjoy. If it works, feels safe, and lets me use some of the muscle and “pedaling circles” knowledge I’ve accumulated from mtb and road bike racing with clipless pedals for over 25 years, cool. If not, que sera. Maybe it will be very similar to mtb, where the downhill huckers use flat pedals and the xc spinners go clipless.
Or maybe as this sport continues to evolve, someone like KH will develop a special clipless pedal just for muni. One of the great attractions of this sport is how young and quickly evolving it is. So many envelopes being pushed right now with handlebars, suspension, tubeless setups, trials tricks, etc. etc.
I have really enjoyed AscenXion’s views and appreciate the time he has spent in documenting his findings. I am new to unicycling (well a I’ve been riding unsupported for about one year but unfortunately due to a long daily commute and at the weekend other duties, I do not have the time to ride/practice as much as I would like to).
I am intrigued and will likely try clipless (I have been riding clipless on bikes for years) but that “fear” of falling haunts me before I have even tried!
This forum is about sharing thoughts and ideas and this discussion should not devolve into a fight!
There’s a “meet up” coming 10/18 at an mtb “freeride” park. They will be doing some very big jumps. One of the requirements is:
<REQUIRED:
You must have elbow/knee pads, and a full face helmet. You must also have flat pedals no clip pedals will be allowed, flat footed shoes only(no running shoes), and you must also be able to drop your seat post down on your bike. These requirements are for your safety if you fail to meet these requirements you will not be allowed to participate in this event.>
There is no “fight” (from me anyway) I actually agree with 95% of his write-ups and was inspired to give clipless what I think is a pretty good go. I found them to be everything he said they were, save the potential for injury. It is my OPINION that falling to your hands is far more dangerous than jumping off to your feet.
I am simply sharing my experience and thoughts and I think the discussion has been generally respectful. I certainly have not taken offense and from the many continued write ups it is obvious AscenXion has not been holding back on his opinions and I hope he does not feel attacked.
I hope your not putting me in with the group that is “arguing”, because I’m not attempting to in the slightest. I fully understand that my “reputation” amongst many people on this forum is probably fairly low, and so I’m really trying to keep a positive attitude about discussing my opinions. I also completely agree that clipless are not for everybody. I would just like to share my experiences that I’ve discovered first hand, and then help to quell any negative “thoughts” that anybody might have. If you try them, and find out for yourself that they are not right for you, I will say nothing about it. But when someone says that they think they won’t work for a particular reason, I’m just trying to share my experience on the subject, and on their particular worry, and try to put it to rest.
I like your prefaces to your decision to give them a try. I hope you don’t get a back knock on the head, and I’m fairly sure that you won’t. I hope that they work for you as well as they have for me.
I have just googled a bit to find if extreme downhillers truly do use platforms more often. That does seem to be the case, though there are still many that use clipless. (as an aside, I think it might actually be a lot like what were discussing now, but I’ve never tried mtb downhill, so I can’t say for sure that clipless would be right for me) It’s not that I didn’t believe you, I’ve just never looked into it before. But anyways, I was just curious because for me on a uni, on longish downhills (but nothing like “downhill” of course) I find clipless to actually be a GREAT benefit. It’s actually the reason that I got them in the first place way back when. I don’t use a brake, and don’t ever intend to, and so on downhills my feet would bounce off the pedals on bumps, and I’d have to try so hard to keep my speed checked that I didn’t get to rest at all. Now, as I’ve said before, I literally just “let go”. I don’t really do anything on the downs except go along for the ride, so I never worry about bouncing off anymore, and I can FINALLY get some rest.
I’m not arguing at all with anything that you said, it just provided me with a thought that I wanted to expand on. I’ve never had the fortune to ride extreme downhill on muni yet, but I’m almost positive that I’d use clipless for it.
That’s all I’m trying to do, is provide my findings and discuss my views. I’m glad that SOMEONE appreciates that.
I fully understand insurance reasons and whatnot, but I still completely disagree with others being allowed to tell me what to do with my body. So I would personally never enter something that even required me to wear a helmet, let alone disallow me from using my clipless pedals.
That aside, I think that you’ve helped to prove my points in a way. I don’t think there’s any argument over the superiority of clipless for mtbing. So if there is a subgenre in which clipless are not used, then the same should be true for muni. If at the far end of the spectrum, clipless seems too dangerous, that’s fine don’t use them. But when you move down the line a little bit, clipless should become the norm, as they are in mtbing.
But I’m not really sure the point that you’re trying to make. I never once said anything about freeriding muni, and I specifically said that I don’t do large drops and jumps. Nor do I think that most of that stuff is even possible on a unicycle. (Freeride stuff, that is)
And again, from the posts that I’ve read in the past, I began to develop respect for you. So it’s sad that you continue to feel the need to backhandedly insult me. Obviously clipless works for me and I will continue to use them. You telling me that I’m “allowed” to do this, and implying that my insights provide nothing for anybody else is quite rude, imo.
I don’t feel as if we’re “arguing”, I think that there are just people slightly reluctant to believe some of the things that I say. I don’t feel “attacked” I just don’t really appreciate the very small insults that are sneaked in. They are the type that coming from friends would be funny, but coming from people disagreeing with me, they just get my goat a little bit. I like to live my life as closely as possible to how the “human animal” should though, and so I think that taking umbrage with slights is completely normal and natural.
I never implied or intended to “insult” or “slight” you in any way. As I was careful to preface my opinion(s) my saying I was “speaking solely for myself”. And regarding your statement above: “You telling me that I’m “allowed” to do this, and implying that my insights provide nothing for anybody else is quite rude, imo.” I never said or implied anything of the kind. I think you may have misinterpreted or read something into my statements that I never said. On the other hand, you seemed to have no problem assuming that anyone who didn’t like the idea of riding clipless was held back by “fear”. But in your case you didn’t “imply” it, you flat out made that assumption.
For example, when I used the phrase, “common sense”, which by the way, IUnicycle echoed in his post, I was simply referring to the way I feel, and what my own common sense tells me…etc. But I was not projecting that onto you, or implying that you did not have common sense. I apologize if you took it that way. Unfortunately, the internet is a poor substitute for speaking to someone in person, where a mere “inflection” on a word or phrase can change the meaning completely. Peace.
No worries - I wasn’t referring to anybody in particular, just felt like the discussion was in danger of drifting towards the “I’m right, you’re wrong” area, which is never a good thing.
Rob
(FWIW, I’m not aware of any reputation, good or bad, you may or may not have - I don’t think I’ve read anything you’ve said on here that has annoyed me - or perhaps I’ve just missed the bits where you wound people up :p)
Just curious if anyone has any recent updates on this subject? Anyone recently tried it? What were your conclusions?
I tried Crank Brothers candy pedals on my muni and my giraffe a few months ago, and for the most part had a lot of fun. I did have one upd on the giraffe that I didn’t unclip for in time, and had a hard fall (but no injury). At the time I was idling under a tree and trying to retrieve my headphones from it, so I know it was the sideways pulling that threw me off.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, I really liked the ability to just relax and coast down hills, and more effortless torque on the climbs. Also, there is a connectedness to the uni that is a really unique feeling.
I’ll be getting my 36" later this month, and I know I will have to try out clipless on it too. I realize this thread is titled “Clipless pedals for Muni”, but I didn’t want to start a new thread when there is a lot of good reading in this one. As far as the muni goes, I personally didn’t do any drops that were over 2 feet, and I don’t think I’d want to with clipless.
I was actually going to update this thread a while ago, but decided that I’d just leave it unless someone else did, so thanks for the impetus.
What I wanted to say was that I got my first fixed gear bike, and for the first time in years I started mountain biking again. I (of course) took the brakes off the fixie, and without recent biking experience, and certainly no brake-less fixie mountain biking experience, I was QUITE afraid at first. I had platform pedals, and I felt that I really needed them as I would frequently have to bail when I couldn’t slow enough down a hill leading into a corner. With the need to quickly throw my feet down and “Flinstone stop” my bike whilst rolling off the trail into the woods.
The thought of throwing clipless into this scenario seemed absolutely ridiculous.
Until that’s just what I did, and wonder of wonders, I gained a great amount of control, and moreover, the power that allowed me to skid stop. Obviously, that’s not a part of unicycling…yet. But the point was very clear to me. I felt the way that most of you feel, that clipless was silly at best, and possibly downright death defyin. And then I tried it, and found that I had been wrong. That clipless was what I was missing, and now clipless brake-less fixie mountain biking (that’s a mouthful) is one of the most fun activities that I’ve ever done. <whisper> possibly more fun than muni…
That’s cool that you’re using them, and have some of the same thoughts that I do. And thread resurrection and resulting drift is cool by me.
Oh, and btw, I just reread a lot of my posts. It’s funny how this was just a few months ago, and yet my words seem like they’re coming from someone much more immature than I feel now. So, sorry for all of my whining and moaning, and possible insults, I really was just trying to help.
Oh, and btw2, lest some of you think that I’ve been lurking (that’s a good word) here just waiting to pounce on this thread once it was alive again. I haven’t been here for months, this was really just a complete coincidence that it was today that he posted and that I saw it.
If it weren’t for this thread I wouldn’t have imagined clipless being a sane option on a unicycle. Initially, even though I was reading about dudes wearing clipless I assumed it was within the domain of the somewhat foolhardy. Yeah! I actually assumed clipless unicycle riders were ‘obviously’ so fanatical they went beyond caring for their own safety. OK we are all obviously fanatical but we do care for our safety, right? The more I have followed this thread the more curious I am. Nurse Ben’s post has flipped me and the ‘Easy Out’ cleats seem to me worth trying.
I have cleats on my road racing bicycle but wondered if anyone can give some feedback on what brand of pedal they particularly use with clipless on a unicycle.
I think I have to add I am ‘fanatical’ about road riding and want to put more and more distance under my wheel. So the idea of clipless is worth a try in riding comparitively smooth tarmac. My mind will ‘probably’ never make the jump to putting clipless on my MUni!
That’s cool that this thread has helped to shed a little light on the subject for a few people. Makes me proud.
I don’t think it really makes much of a difference which pedals you use. But my recommendation would be for the dual clipless/platform pedals. That way you can still ride around without clipless if you’d like. That’s what I used the first time around, and they worked great. I sold those pedals and went back to platforms for a while, and when I got clipless again, I just got the cheapest normal pedals I found, which brings me to the next point.
I went with normal (no platform) clipless pedals because I don’t EVER want to ride mUni again with platforms. It is just such a pain in the butt…and legs, and knees, and feet, and… Road riding (though I rarely do it) with clipless, for me, is now normal and more efficient. But, it’s funny, at first I was afraid to ride on the road clipped in, but totally fine with hurling myself into any situation on the trails clipped in. Odd how some people just look at things differently.
but we do care for our safety, right? 
The more I have followed this thread the more curious I am. Nurse Ben’s post has flipped me and the ‘Easy Out’ cleats seem to me worth trying.