[QUOTE
One reason I ride the 24x3 most, is precisely because it’s suitable for both road and pavement- while I’m confident of my own abilites on the road, I don’t have the same faith in the abilities of some car drivers, and having the pavement/sidewalk option is useful.[/QUOTE]
+1
I was on my 24" muni on a very quiet stretch of road, a car came up behind me and bibbed his horn twice 
Maybe he was alerting me to the fact he was there 
+1
I was on my 24" muni on a very quiet stretch of road, a car came up behind me and bibbed his horn twice 
Maybe he was alerting me to the fact he was there 
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Maybe you pulled? 
Cool. Looks like pretty standard stuff, nothing weird. Here’s a few highlights, with my own comments added on:
So bikes and unicycles are not vehicles.
So unicycles also are not bicycles.
This means that, were unicycles to be treated like bicycles, you would need those lights and reflectors for nighttime travel.
Bells are cheap and easy to attach (again, if unicycles are to be considered as bikes).
This is built into every unicycle, except for the skid part. You don’t skid a unicycle unless you want to instantly fall off.
If you are going to be considered as a bicycle this law should apply as well (for riding on highways).
Of course he won. If he didn’t win both, it would suggest his unicycle fit either the bicycle or skateboard category, which it currently doesn’t. Citing the same guy with first a skateboard citation, and later a bicycle citation, was silly (but it happens elsewhere also).
Why not cite them with being dangerous to pedestrians? I’m sure there are regulations for that, but since none of that was mentioned, the two charges above seem more like harassment. Were the unicyclists a problem, or were they just annoying for riding “outside the lines” of known and regulated conveyances?
Based on the laws quoted above, the unicycle is neither a vehicle nor a bicycle. So it doesn’t have any rights. And currently there aren’t any specific rules against it, like skateboards. It should stay that way. There are tons of skateboards out there, but not unicycles. My suggestion below is mostly about adjusting your Bicycle definition to allow for unicycles.
Most of the people here will need help with at least two of those acronyms. We don’t have government-recognized associations (though we’ve tried in the past).
Sounds good. Also ask them where they think those unicycles should fit in the local laws, or for other ideas.
The ban on skateboards may have more to do than just with speed, such as the added hazard of a skateboard shooting out away from the rider. But at this point you need to address the jogger/runner aspect. There’s no point in using alternate forms of transportation if they can’t go faster than walking. So you might want to look into the speed thing of pedestrians vs. pedestrians on the sidewalk?
Inefficient yes, but they go about as fast as a skateboard. Those are Trials (or Street or Flatland) unicycles, which are made for jumping around on. More about that later.
So to consider how to treat unicycles as a form of transportation, you have to think about how it’s done with bikes. Like bikes, unicycles come in various shapes and sizes, and are ridden by kids and adults. You probably already have rules for kids on wheeled devices on the sidewalk. Since speed is usually not the issue, it’s more about hazards to pedestrians. And small kids usually aren’t trying to go somewhere; rather they are playing around.
Another question to ask the police when you speak to them is what the two unicyclists were doing. Were they riding in a straight line, as though to get to class? Or were they practicing tricks. Trials tricks can be anything from going up and down curbs, to jumping over benches, grinding rails, and riding on very high walls & things. Whatever the activity, if it’s not transportation, it probably falls under different categories or ordinances. In other words, they can ride through, but can’t hang out and play along those pubic thoroughfares.
But what if they’re trying to get to class, or to the store? Where do they fit? The general concept I try to promote is to treat unicycles to the same rights and responsibilities as bicycles. They should follow the rules for bikes, which probably means stay off the sidewalk. Not sure how that applies to things like wide sidewalks through campus (without roads next to them). Let’s stick to the roads.
The benefit to the “unicycle-is-a-bike” approach is that you don’t have to write new legislation. The only thing you have to do is consider the rules that make sense for bikes but don’t for unicycles, which usually involve brakes. Unicycles don’t need brakes. They are fixed-gear devices with a 1:1 gear ratio. Unlike a track bike, they can stop pretty quick. In fact, a brake won’t help them stop any quicker! So unicyclists shouldn’t be ticketed for that one.
The rule for lights & reflectors might be annoying, but if you want the rights of a bicycle and want to ride at night, it’s reasonable.
Same applies to the bell. I highly recommend having one of those for riding around pedestrians. It makes a huge difference for me in my bike path riding. It’s much safer if people simply move over, rather than turn around, do a doubletake, and then act randomly since they don’t know how to react to an oncoming unicycle.
And helmets too. If you’re out there with cars, not a bad idea.
For the campus itself, if there are lots of convenient sidewalks that don’t have accompanying roads, perhaps a different approach is needed. But the above is designed to work for the vast majority of other transport situations and unicycles.
Keep us posted!
That is the question that comes up when you consider legislation for unicycles. Your speed is so slow that it will impede bikes (or skateboards). It will not benefit you to ride with the traffic to your back, since the relative impact speed isn’t changed much by your own speed (in relation to riding facing traffic). The safest place for someone in your situation to be is on the pavement (sidewalk). But then the rules start to get really complicated. This is where I like to introduce an element of common sense. Riders need common sense, to know when to stop riding if the sidewalk is crowded. Peace officers need common sense, to allow for basic transportation and not cite someone in your situation. This doesn’t mean they should not stop people practicing tricks on a crowded sidewalk, or clearly too unstable to ride among people. Even then, maybe citing them is excessive. Just ask them to walk until it’s not crowded…
Were that true, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. So we wait to hear more from the officers involved to find out the specifics of that situation. Meanwhile, there are always a few anal cops who want to cite unicycles for no apparent reason. That is, for unicyclists that aren’t endangering pedestrians or otherwise doing anything dangerous to others (or themselves?).
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That one requires explanation. Are you speaking of crowded campus sidewalks vs. 20" unicycles? Because it’s not that hard to go 10 mph on a 20", or faster if you’re late for class. But if the sidewalk is really busy, the only riding that’s “safe” on it is really slow. Sometimes it just makes more sense to get off and walk.
If the purpose of the ride is commuting, the street version is probably the best. But it doesn’t fit will for unicycles that aren’t suited for commuting. My commute to work, when I do it, is on a 36" unicycle, traveling between 10-16 mph. I belong on the road. But someone on a 20" probably doesn’t…
I believe this is true for bicycles, but not as cut-and-dried for unicycles. We don’t have such a wide variation in wheel size/speed.
Yes to the second part. There are plenty of vehicle laws that have to do with # of wheels (or axles) but they’re not relevant here. The number of wheels thing for unicycles is mostly about brakes, and that we don’t need them. 
Ok so on my 20"…
I’m wanting to get a new uni and am not sure what size but if i had a 24"/26" muni type would i be stable enough/big enough to ride on the road? There is a small strip of “cycle path” there. It’s about a foot wide between the boundry and yellow lines and cars sortof-ish respect it… ish
Pedestrians are joggers/runners/sprinters, all on the sidewalk. That sets the speed limit, like a slow Coker ride is fine.
Once I was unicycling on the sidewalk with GalaTheDog on leash, and the police suggested I go into the road.
I could have demonstrated how dangerous that would be. Gala gets spooked by car doors opening and shoots out into the street, causing cars and me to maneuver to safety.
So we stay on the sidewalk where we seem to belong. We’ve been doing it on the sidewalk 6 years now without any incidents.
Once I had Gala on leash, carrying 4 bags of groceries on my Coker on the sidewalk, and as I passed a woman smoking a cigarette, she said: Dangerous.
I said I couldn’t see going much over 6mph because of the hills, I very doubt you could ride a 29" or bigger. The sidewalks aren’t that crowded, but they also aren’t very smooth, and certainly not level.
Roads here are narrower than most in the US. Most downtown streets are 10’ wide, many are narrower. The only roads over 11’ are interstates. Remember cars are typically 6’ wide.
The riders are only commuting. They aren’t doing any tricks.
The police currently aren’t enforcing the ban of bicycles on the sidewalk. We’re hoping that they continue to not enforce it, except when cyclists aren’t yielding to pedestrians. (Better to be on a bike on the sidewalk, than in a car-since we’re still working to get people to feel safe on the road).
USAC = USA Cycling; a national organization dedicated to all forms of bicycle racing, a branch of UCI (the world organization)
LAB LCI = League of American Bicyclists, League Cycling Instructor
I don’t think it’s reasonable to group unicycles with bicycles. They’re very different. In fact, I don’t see much difference at all from a pedestrian. Yes, a 36" can sprint at what 13mph at cadence of 120 RPM, (26" 9.3MPH @ 120 RPM), but a 6 min-mile runner is doing 10mph. I feel that other laws (public endangerment) cover that.
I’m still not convinced that unicycles belong in the street though. But I also don’t see the point in restricting unicycles at all as it’s just not that big of a deal.
I do need basis/facts/statistics to report/appease the police chief. I am getting a lot from this discussion.
A geared 36" can sprint at upwards of 25MPH with the right rider, and cruise in the high teens. Good riders on ungeared 36" wheels have cadences well above 120RPM (even above 200RPM). They use shorter cranks than bikes so high cadences are attainable.
I use the sidewalk sometimes, the street sometimes. My view is that if I’m moving at significantly over walking speed, I should be in the street, because cars are not expecting fast-moving objects on sidewalks. Even on my ungeared 29er I can cruise above 10mph (with 110mm cranks), and that’s not a reasonable thing to do on the sidewalk. I pretty regularly pass bikes on the street.
I use a 24x3 and switch between pavement (sidewalk) and roads, depending on which seems safest/best at any given time.
Certainly, a 24x3 or 26" is going to feel a lot more suitable on the roads, than a 20"-er.
I think the main thing for being on the roads is to be very competant in riding, as, ideally, you’ll be confident of having zero UPDs when on the roads.
Plus, you will be passed by police cars, so you need to be looking stable. (I think the helmet will be useful in that regard as well, plus, if it’s close to dark, front and rear lights on the unicycle as well as on your backpack).
If it’s flat where you are, a 29-er is also an option, though I think a 24x3 is more suitable if you also want to ride on footpaths as well as roads.
Yes!
Tell them you searched on line and the consensus is there are NO REPORTS of pedestrians being hurt by unicyclists.
Tell them unicyclists routinely ride on the sidewalk in NYC and elsewhere.
With the world hour record under 30 km (18.64 miles, set on a bike track), I’m guessing there aren’t many (any) folks cruising in the high teens on the road.
If a 36" wheel has ~2800mm rollout, 200 rpm would be 2.820060/1000 = 33.6 km/hr, so I’m guessing there aren’t many (any) folks cruising like that, either.
If unicycles belong on the road, it’s because normal unicyclists can share the road safely, not because of superhuman performance claims.
I ride a 29er. I ride about 150 miles a month. My comfortable riding speed it between 6 - 8 mph with very occasional bursts of up to 10mph. Based on my riding experience I would not suggest that a unicycle will traveling very fast, even slower on a smaller wheel. I make a point of stopping at all stop signs, and obeying the rules. It is reasonable to expect that when there is little room for a unicyclist, or bicyclist on the road, to use the sidewalk for safety, and when there is plenty of room to use the road. I think a ban on unicycles would only be appropiate perhaps in certain corridors where their would be heavy vehicular traffic and no shoulders, or space for the unicyclist. Common sense would tell a unicyclist not to be on that kind of road anyway.
[post]2127133[/post]
In addition to the poll, you may wish to offer more info by writing responses in the link thread above.
Ryan, glad to see you’re getting something over here.
As far as comparing a 36" unicyclist to a 6 min mile runner, that would probably put the runner on reasonably flat terrain. I know I go under the banner of personal experience, but when we have taken group rides on the rail trail, the slight upgrade portion I’ve been faster than most of the bicyclists. It is the rail trail and trains don’t go up big hills, so it isn’t a hard data set, but 10mph isn’t hard at all. I’ve been able to push much faster and still finish the 45 mile ride strong.
When we did the BCSR Stage Race (that you officiated), we did 3 laps of the bicycle course with the 3 lap riders (25.5mi) finishing the particularly hilly course in under 2 hours. Granted, that was race pace and a very strong group, but it is possible. A general several hour sustainable pace for me is over 10mph, hills included.
The point isn’t to say “I can do this”, but to hopefully note that casual to recreational biking speeds are very possible.
The big problem seems to be the wide range of unicycling. A strong rider on a big wheel would probably be better on the road (hills included), BUT they will also have the skill set (and hopefully common sense) to operate their uni on the road. Many people who ride unicycles don’t ever ride a big wheel at fast speeds (much like many people who ride bikes don’t race). I’m not sure if even many forum members here are comfortable in traffic. In the case of those who doubt their abilities or stray much closer to pedestrian speeds are better off on the sidewalk.
Unfortunately humans possessing common sense isn’t legislatable.
Just a thought regarding the unis vs. skateboards:
Even unicycles without a brake can be stopped in a reasonably short distance without dragging a foot. The same can’t be said for the skateboards.
Thanks for all the work you’re putting into the project! Volunteering to help a group you belong to is hard enough. Trying to understand someone else’s perspective is admirable.
Roads have downhills.
Depends on the crank length. I have personally recorded speeds that high while an ungeared 36" (with 100mm cranks) was gaining on me.
Obviously those aren’t typical speeds, but they’re attainable. The German Speeders averaged over 13MPH for 500 road miles in RTL, which would be neither advisable nor possible on sidewalks.
I’ve been to Morgantown, and I can’t imagine riding a big wheel (>26") around it for any length of time. Steep hills and narrow streets, for sure. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to confine unicycles to sidewalks, riding at pedestrian speeds, and dismounting as common sense dictates.
FWIW, I attended a (relatively) uni-abundant college for 4 years and the only serious uni accident was a uni/golf cart collision (due to a blind corner).
My meeting with the city is on Friday at noon. I’ll post what I learn.
I read over the brief polling thread, and I’m seeing as expected, typical pedestrian encounters. Blind corners, and inattentive pedestrians.
Odd, I’ve never been stopped in nearly 2 years. Maybe it’s because I’m not grabbing their attention with a flashy KH.
Any word on the final result?
Sorry, I wrote up the minutes of the meeting and then for distracted about making them public and forgot to respond here.
A few things came to light, first WV has 2 codes that define a bicycle. The 2nd one you’ll see could be a unicycle.
§17C-1-8. Bicycle.
“Bicycle” means every device which does not have a motor attached and which is propelled by human power upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels either of which is more than twenty inches in diameter.
§17C-11A-3(a)
“Bicycle” means a human-powered vehicle with wheels designed to transport, by the action of pedaling, one or more persons seated on one or more saddle seats on its frame. Such term also includes a human-powered vehicle, and any attachment to such vehicle designed to transport by pedaling when the vehicle is used on a public roadway, public bicycle path or other public right-of-way, but does not include a tricycle.
The complaints came from the public who believed unicycles were banned just as skateboards are. Then skateboarders complained it wasn’t fair they were banned and not unicycles. No injuries or damages were reported. The police did note that theres one rider who is not very adept and falls off often, letting his unicycle get away, which poses a risk to pedestrians.
The city manager was willing to accept whatever our committee comes up with, and our preliminary solution was to reword the ban on skateboards to incorporate unicycles, but limit the scope from all of downtown to just the 2 most populous streets.
why reword it at all, if there is no real cause other than skateboarders deeming it unfair why should you change anything. You said that there have been no accidents thus far anyway.