Building a 650B Muni

Interested to see how much it burps. Not that I’d ever go 650b. That’s just silly… :smiley:

nNot that silly, the 650 will have a lower relative gearing than a 29, but not as low as a 26. Not that I dislike the 29" wheel, but it is a little tall at times for,tech stuff, at the same time I feel like the 26" is a little too small form XC.

I really like the feel of the SG tire, it is super burly like a DH tire, but with a more pliable center, so it should conform to the trail, while having enough sidewall to resist collapse.

If you are going to stick with a 29 for muni, there is a Super Muddy Mary…

BTW, these tires have a high retail price, but can already be found on sale, I paid $72 delivered for my HD SG.

Keifer, do you have a 26" wheel? If not, have you considered building one and running spirits on all your wheels so you swap wheels? The you could have a tech muni wheel, maybe get an SG :smiley:

FYI, I took some measurements last night to see how tight the fit would be for my Knard on the Oracle 29 (+) frame and it is sooooper tight, 1/8" on either side and 1/4" to the crown. I think I’ll leave it on the Oregon. :roll_eyes:

My plan right now is to get an Oregon once I have a couple paychecks under my belt, probably the 29er though. But I do think that I may follow suit with you and build up a couple different wheelsets to use in the frame down the road. I may sell my Drak at some point too.

I’m just not crazy about the 26er wheelsize, unless it’s the original Oregon. :smiley:

Built up the 650b wheel last night, 32h Niimbus hub, Velocity Blunt 35 rim, tubed it for now, but will change to tubeless soon. Tire weight was spot on 1040gm as listed on the packaging, using a Specialized presta 27.5 tube, and a Schwalbe Hans Dampf 650b x 2.35 Super Gravity tire :smiley:

Here are some measurements for comparions (outside tread diameter):

Duro Wildlife 24 x 3", Nimbus Dominator rim (42mm) = 25.75"
Maxxis Ardent 26 x 2.4, Surly Large Marge XC (65mm) = 27.5"
Schwalbe Hans Dampf SG 650b x 2.35, Velocity Blunt (35mm) = 28.5"
Schwalbe Hans Dampf 29 x 2.35, Velocity Blunt (35mm) = 29.5"
Surly Knard 29 x 3" 27tpi, Surly Rabbit Hole (50mm) = 30.5"

Anyone have a measurement for a Duro 26 x 3"?

ill measure tonight for ya

Well, I was bored last night, had alredy let the HD Super Gravity stretch for a day at 50psi, so I pulled the tube, added a valve, and went tubeless :smiley:

It’s really quite easy, esp if you line the rim with tubeless tape from the beginning, then it’s just a matter of getting the tire to dry seal, deflate, add sealant, reinflate, swirl it all around, check for leaks, a little more swirling to plug the leaks, and ta da!

I checked this morning, holding pressure fine, did a little swirling before work, tonight I drop the pressure and ride!

If it rains I’ll get to see if the sticky rubber makes a difference.

When I bounced around on the HD Super G when it was tubed, it felt a lot stiffer than the regular HD, which is why I figured it would be fine tubeless.

Next I think I’ll go tubeless on my 29" Oracle wheel with a Knard :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyone need a used Hans Dampf 29 x 2.35? Trade ya for an Ardent 2.4 :slight_smile:

What do you want the Ardent for? Just curious, prolly missed it somewhere.

I think a 32in tire

Yup, I have one newish Ardent 26 x 2.4, need a set so I can start cutting…

I’d prefer to have a matched set, same style and wear pattern, the 26 and 29 are different…

I could also sell my HD, it’s bout 70% life, no damage, Pacestar long lasting rubber, folding bead, anyone?

I think the Knard is going on the 29er wheel next, if the fit is not crazy tight in the Oracle frame, I may keep it there and get a second Knard for the Oregon.

So put the freewheeling uni up before someone gets hurt and give us a proper review of the 650b. THAT’s the future!

So many unis, so little time :slight_smile:

I meant to ride it last night, but I got distracted and by the time it cooled off it was dark, but it’s loaded in the car, gonna hit the trails on the way home from work, rain or heat.

It’s a really stiff tire, even tubeless.

Hey Ben, any pictures of your setup? I’m still trying to get my 36h Velocity Blunt-35 rim!

Any chance you could weigh your 650b wheel with or without the tyre?

How about a sweepstake - I’ll bid 1400g.

The HD SG tire is 1041 gms, the Velocity Blunt 35 rim is ~400gms, spokes are standard SS 14ga, brass nips, hub is 32h Nimbus chromoly. I’m running tubeless, so ~ 125gms with tape, tube, and 2oz of sealant (Maxxis welterweight tube is ~300gm). The standard Hans Dampf is ~850gms. By being able to run tubeless in the SG (the HD is a little too flimsy for tubeless) the weight is about the same between the two set ups.

I rode last night, hot and humid, trails were firm, moist/ muddy in places, rooty and rocky per the norm. The smaller wheel size was obvious right from the car, easier to maneuver, quicker to accelerate, but it didn’t feel small.

The SG tire is quite a bit stiffer than a standard HD, feels more like a Duro in terms of sidewall stiffness, I kept dropping the pressure until it felt squishy, not sure of the final psi, but less than 20psi for sure. I rode hard, got all of my tech climbs, even a spot that I don’t often get on my 29" HD, the smaller tire circumference made it easier to climb and maneuver, and that was with running shorter cranks (150) vs my norm (165).

I like the balance of a slightiy smaller wheel and slightly shorter cranks.

Is the difference worth it? Yes, i think it is, it was clearly smaller riding than a 29" without feeling twitchy and small like a 26". I would probably be okay with a 26", but I hate the idea of going so small as to loose that swoopy feeling that comes from a bigger wheel.

I have a 26" Duro coming today, it’ll be going on the Oregon Large Marge. Once I have that mounted, then I can do a proper comparison; funny how the Duro is the standard to which all other tires are compared :roll_eyes:

In terms of the Hans Dampf Super Gravity tire, I think it is a great tire, a true DH tire without being overly weighty, stiff or rubbery. It rides like a normal HD, but without the sidewall collapse, so running low pressure and tubeless is fine. It’s so good that I will be dismounting my regular HD and selling it!

For perspective, when I ran tubeless on the regular HD I had a lot of sidewall collapse and numerous sealant spurts at pressures less than 20psi, so I had to run higher pressures which felt too hard. I went back to a tube on the regular HD and had a better ride, but it was still softish at pressure less than 20psi. On the HD SG I am running tubeless with less than 20psi, I had no sidewall collapse and I had one small spurt in 90 min of riding. Traction was awesome, the stickier trailstar rubber is really nice on roots and rocks, the difference from the Pacestar compound was clear.

I like the tire :smiley:

Also, rim width, I think this is something we may obsess on too much. I am running a Velocity 35mm rim on the 29" and 27.5" wheels. They have a decent rounded profile, I haven’t found any increase in autosteer or twitchiness over a wider rim, BUT my rim weighs half that of a KH Freeride 47mm rim and less than half that of a Nimbus Dominator 42mm rim.

Think about that, you are losing 450gms of rotational weight by changing rims, then another ~200gms with tubeless, that’s a loss of more than a pound over a KH Freeride with a Maxxis Freeride tube. If you’re running a DH tube, then subtract another 150gms!!

Sure, I like the look of rims with cutouts, but I prefer a lighter weight muni :wink:

Pics incoming after I switch tires from the ole HD to the Knard.

Are you sure about that? I thought they quoted them at somewhere nearer 600g, and an Open Pro is over 400g - I find it hard to believe a rim almost twice the width of a race rim is lighter.

Maybe Ben mistook the weight for the regular Blunt vs the Blunt 35. I know the 29er version of the Blunt 35 is listed at 590g, compared to 690g for a Rabbit Hole and 795g for a KH (Rabbit Hole and KH weights actual measures).

I haven’t ridden the Blunt 35 in any size but have owned both 38mm and 47mm KH 29" rims. For me, the extra width provides noticeably more stability and is worth a bit of weight.

Maybe Ben mistook the weight for the regular Blunt vs the Blunt 35. I know the 29er version of the Blunt 35 is listed at 590g, compared to 690g for a Rabbit Hole and 795g for a KH (Rabbit Hole and KH weights actual measures).

I haven’t ridden the Blunt 35 in any size but have owned both 38mm and 47mm KH 29" rims. For me, the extra width provides noticeably more stability and is worth a bit of weight.

I weighed the 29" velocity blunt 35 and I remember it being 450 grams. I posted it somewhere on the forum, so look for it to see if my numbers are correct; I didn’t weight the 650b rim, I just subtracted a few grams.

Internet is down, so I have to use the phone :angry:

At first i love the idea and would like to try a 27.5 rig specially Sxhwalbe’s SG Tyres

Cant wait to see some images and sounds like its a nice ride. If i were to make one up i like to have everything close to ideal as i can get.

Not seeing any 36 hole rims or 27.5" rims wider than 38mm… Hub choice is very limited and my personal preference is wider the rim the better on a uni.

Would not a wider rim, stronger hub ( maybe it would be lighter too ) and a Hans 26x2.35 Super Grav tubeless be almost the same overall wheel O.D, maybe lighter overall? which could be made geared also unlike 27.5"

Shame Velocity 650b rims arent drilled 36H… if they did i would build one to ride the Muni trails. Instead i have an unused KH26 disc frame from my old 700c Guni i bead blasted it and was wondering what to do. In so much dislike for my old KH24 with onza 165mm cranks im thinking to make a 26er like your 27.5" only going with 26" Hans SG Tubeless for more agressive Muni. I roll KH29 Guni offroad currently. Cant bring myself to tubeless my 29er.

Waiting in anticipation for your photos of the 650B!
Hope your net is back online soon…