But there are 36 hole drilled blunt rims Page Not Found :(
Why wouldn’t you want 32 hole?
That’s kinda what I’m prolly going to end up doing. I wanna see how I like the Duro first, but I think I may end up going with a tubeless HDSG on my new 26er eventually.
36H !? so they do cool. I search where i can buy one for easily without huge freight costs and onluy found 32H
32H limits hub options so i dont like 32 hole.
and still given a 36H Velocity even if i could put my paws on one it would give me what the width of a KH rim does for stability or grip. although minor it would be noticeable and worldly nicer to ride if its wider.
Duro arent my favorite tyres. Feel and look a bit primitive and heavy. Not sure if theyre rubber compounds match similar priced big name brand tyres
I found a Maxxis minion Front tyre 26x2.7 which i want to try. Weights a bit but i wont find much wider for a Muni and they are second best to the Hans IMAO. Grip and minimal rolling resistance at its best.
Wouldnt running a tube give a tyre better side wall strength?
and is going tubeless simply to save a few grams or to run scary low pressures?
If you can too please measure your mounted 650B Hans tyre. I can measure my 2.7 minion and see how the outside diameter compares to 26"?
Not knocking any ones ideas or build here, like i said love the idea its great and everything needs to be explored!
muni tasmania when you mount the 2.7 minion could you please measure the width of the casing please 
Also nurse ben it’d be awesome if you could do the same for your Hans that’d be awesome
roger wilco. Should become a wide beast on KH freeride rim
Still waiting anxiously to see the 650B build!!!
We have internet back, but I’m in the middle of rebuilding a deck, so no pics for a while.
Yeah, the Duro is primitive, but apparently it is what a lot of muni riders want because it is the most popular tire in use; yes, it also oem for many munis… as for the Minion, not my cup of tea, heavy and poor ride quality.
I already listed tire diameters in an early post…
Tubes are heavy, they probably help a “little bit” with tire support, but not enough to offset their weight, esp if you are comparing a Duro/Nokian DH tube (450gm) vs tubeless (100-150gm). You would be better off finding a good tire that has a little extra weight and going tubeless, than running a weak tire and a heavy tube.
For example: Hans std (850gm) with a welterweight tube (300gm) vs a Hans Super Gravity (1040gm) and tubeless(150gm). The Hans SG tubeless is far stiffer AND more resilent than the HD std tubed, plus I get flat protection.
The lightest tire I am running is 1040gm (HD SG), the Knard is 1100gm, the Todd is 1500gm. I don’t mind running a heavy tire if I can run a lighter rim and tubeless. All of my tires with the exception of the Knard are tubeless; the Knard will be tubeless next week
In terms of rim width, to each their own, but if wide rims were so necessary then bikers would use them, nuff said. I was once a fat rim and heavy tube proponent, been there and done that. Heavy unis are slow unis, now I want to drop weight and skinny rims with tubeless work great! The Oregon goes on the chopping block next.
Hans Dampf SG is 60mm casing and knobbies on a Velocity Blunt 35mm
Duro Wildlife 26 x 3" is 65mm casing, 70mm knobbies, on a Large Marge 65mm
Todd 36 x 2.25" is 70mm casing and knobbies on a Nimbus D2 42mm
Knard 29 x 3" 27tpi is 75mm casing and knobbies on a Velocity Blunt 35mm
The Enduro tire scene is exanding, more advanced tire compounds and composite casings, much like what Schwalbe has done with the Hans, XC casing under the tread and DH casing in the sidewall, also stickier rubbers. There are some Enduro 29" tires, take a look at the Bontrager Team issue.
Great info cheers,
This bit is odd though … “but if wide rims were so necessary then bikers would use them”
?? arent forces and steering a little different on a Uni? Old school DH bikers ran wide rims for grip but now they just run wide tyres to my knowledge. Trials bikes still run wider than std bike rims. They need massive amounts of grip and cushion for hopping not dissimilar to Uni’s
I ran a 28c wide rim on a Guni. If you dont feel you notice the difference between a 38mm and 47mm KH, go to the extreme and ride a 700c wheel with a skinny.
I prefer to run higher pressures and let my tyre grip do the work without compensating less pressure for grip. Hence why wider rims are preferred also.
all in all wider rim tubed, narrower rim tubeless, footprint with our pressures will be similar and you will have the weight advantage is what i am seeing.
As for 27.5" vs 26" im not sold enough to build a 650b. Almost!
At slow speeds maybe, but bikes travel far faster than unis, so lateral forces are far higher. Bikes also jump, do tricks, etc, all on narrower rims. In the biking world, a Blunt 35 is the widest rim for standard mountain bikes; snow bikes run wider but only due to the extreme widths or the snow tires.
Old school DH rims were not that wide. Trials riders use wide rims because they put extreme loads on their wheels, so if you ride trials go wide…otherwise think like a DH biker.
Changing the width of the rim 5-10mm is not significant when you are looking at the circumference of the tire casing which is ~150mm (for a 2.4" tire) plus the rim width. The footprint likewise won’t change that much. For example, I have a Duro Wildlife 26 x 3" on a Large Marge 65mm rim, this is the widest rim I could run on this tire without the sidewalls being oversteepened. The tire width measured at the Knobbies is within 5mm of the tire width measured on a 47mm rim.
Just as you can go too narrow of a rim for a specific tire, you can also go to wide. Since many of use are running 2.3-2.4 tires, the need for 47mm rims is no longer a necessity. More so because the whole point of going to a narrower tire is lower weight and decreased friction at speed, so why run a fatter and heavier rim??
Here’s a reason: If you like the diameter of the 26 x 3" Duro, but want it to be lighter and faster, a 650b x 2.35 Hans Dampf SG is about as close as you can get; ~10mm taller. A 26 x 2.35 Hans Dampf SG will be ~10-15mm smaller in diamter. It’s all about “gear inches”.
Granted, I’m farting in the wind here because reality is, most muni riders like fat tires and fat rims 
Tonight I’m going tubeless on the Knard 
This doesn’t relate to the 650b size but I’m also wondering about the necessity of wide rims and am considering going narrower for the 26" freewheel unicycle I’m planning to build. It will serve double duty as somewhat of a downhill unicycle on hardpack trails and also for spinning fast on downhill paved roads. I like the looks of the Halo Twin Rail tire (2.2" wide) and am wanting to go a notch narrower than the Dominator2 (42mm). Not for the 650b but have you considered the Halo SAS 26" rim (36mm)? Hub choices for a freewheel are limited to cotterless so I would presume you want as wide a rim as is sensible to absorb the downward forces.
How Well do these narrow rims take drops?
The Velocity Blunt 35 is stronger than a KH Freeride, no holes, stronger design (IMHO).
The rim is not what makes the wheel strong, think spokes, build, tension, tire, pressure, rider, skill, etc…
“Any fool can destroy a wheel, it takes skill to go big and not break gear.”
Hmmm. I do have a spare 32 hole hub…
“so why run a fatter and heavier rim??”
I ask the same question…
So why do so many (Most) people and the market leader, make, use and produce as standard, a wide rim?? ie. KH Freeride Rims
Kris has a XC rim for the weight weenies/ speed demons i guess but end of the day why have i got a holy wide rim specially if it weight half a ton and not real strong? Sounding like a 36er and thats a battle offroad but sure is alot of fun
Im trying to talk myself into a 650b build here but need more encouragement.
please confirm
Wheel will be as follows:
Light? check
Strong? ok check
Size good for xc? check!
36H option? check (slumphfable!!!)
Good tyre? Hans SG check
easy tubeless? Check
So if i ride DH is a 650 a good size?
24 i find small slow and heavy. 29er big on the slopes. 26 is good. 27.5 better?
So if i ride XC besides small weight loss what advantages over a 29er are there? 29er will be slightly more stable at speed, slightly faster. Sport a wider rim option. Is the 27.5 simply a better XC choice only if i want a stronger sidewall tyre? I tend to run higher pressures and let the tyre tread do the gripping, it rolls fast on a wide rim and never risk pinch flats.
My KH29 Guni weights in about 7.5Kg with a KH handle setup and alloy saddle frame. I did consider a 26 guni build but like the idea for more stability at speed and a faster pace in low hence 29.
A heavy uni is a slow uni indeed and also a small wheel is a slow, less stable wheel. As is a narrow rim a faster rim also less stable. A wider rim more grip, more stability at cost of speed and weight.
What im really getting at here is 27.5 the new ideal Muni size? if so i need to build one. A schlumpfed one!!
Munitasmania- If you are thinking about schlumpfing your ride I would consider a few things. First- are you hoping to use your high gear in single track situations? or are you just hoping to use it on dual track, 4wd trails and roads to the trail head? I moved my hub from my geared 24 with 125s to a 26 with 137s. It was a really nice transition. I didn’t like using the shorter cranks on the 24 (but I did it to get the speed I wanted on these easier XC settings). The 26 with 137s is better in my opinion as you get that speed on the flatter/ easier sections while still maintaining a good crank length for technical riding when you are in 1:1 (especially if you are a competent technical brake user).
The gearing in 1:1.55 is also not so big that it is too hard to hit moderately technical single track settings in it. I feel that if you went with a bigger wheel you might loose this ability- a shame because for me that is what geared unicycle riding is all about (fast, all or nothing shifts to string together single track, technical sections and climbs).
I think that a bigger geared wheel would suit you if you don’t intend on becoming a frequent/accurate singletrack shifter. You can save high gear for the roads when shifting does not have to be 100% accurate, and then just shift down for the single track and spin away in 1:1. If this is the type of riding you think you will end up doing then the 650b or even a 29 may be a good option.
The 137 cranks are the longest that I would go with on any muni (mainly because it is a perfect length for my feet- they can shift gears without having to readjust on the pedals from my technical riding stance). I think that with that variable being static for me- a 26 is about as big as I would want to go if I hoped to use high gear in the trail. And for all those short crank haters out there- I climbed the hillclimb at the last Unicon on my 137s (while lugging the extra 1.5kgs of my schlumpf up too) and came 2nd overall. With the right technique and fitness behind them they are a very versatile length.
Mark
Hey Mark,
Thanks for the considerations. I too run 137 spirits, on a kh29 guni. Its an all rounder for me. 26er 1:1 just doesn’t allow flowy riding for me. For me 26 is for technical. My ideal size guni I want to ride is for the 200+ km wildside mtb race over 4 days in Jan. Thinking a lighter 650b tubeless Hans sg setup might be a nicer choice or just sticking the time into my 29 guni and get better throwing it around and climbing. Everyone needs to try a flat saddle and 137 spirits asap
Unless 650b shaves big weight over 29er its probably not worth converting.
The super gravity Hans has beefier side walls? Is this totally needed for the weight it boasts?
Mark is a guni guru, he has found the love with a 26" Schlumpf, but he is also a very, very strong rider, so he can ride in high gear on single track. I did not find the love with 26" Schlumpf, it was too small in 1:1 and too tall in 1:1.55, but then I am just a normal human
I think a Schlumpf needs to be ridden in high gear a lot of the time for it to be worthwhile, which is backwards from what I thought when I built one. To ride it in high gear on trails you need to look at a smaller wheel, so a 24" or a 26". The people who have built 29" Schlumpfs for muni use have not been happy, most rebuilt them into smaller wheels or use them for road/rough road touring.
I am holding out for a reduced step Schlumpf 1:1.33, Kris suggested it was a possibility, however if it does not come to fruition, then I’ll build a 26" or a 650b Schlumpf. For muni, a 650b Schlumpf would be better than a 29" Schlumpf, but in high gear at 1:1.5 you are pushing 40+ inches, significantly more than a 36er, so my question would be: Can you push that hard where you ride?
The other thing to look at from Mark’s perspective is that when he went from a 24" to a 26" guni, he also went from a Duro 3" to an Ardent 2.4, so even though his wheel size grew, his tire size shrunk, so he didn’t gain as much as suggested by rim size alone; less than 2" in diameter. The real advantage of going with a 26" wheel is having a much wider variety of tire (lighter weight, tread choices) and rim choices (narrower, lighter).
In a fixed muni, I found the 26" x 2.4 Ardent to be a little small for anything but tech muni, while the 29" x 2.35 HD is kinda tall for tech muni, not impossible to use, but certainly more challenging. Also, the 29" tire choices are geared more to XC than DH/Enduro, though this may be changing; Specialized has a couple 29 x 2.3 GRID technology tires designed for enduro. The 650B sits square in the middle, and though the difference is small, when you don’t have gears it’s all we got.
For persepctive, the 650B with a Hans Dampf SG 2.35 is only 10-15mm (1/2") taller than a 26 x 3" Duro, ~500gm lighter, just as stiff, just as sticky, and way faster rolling. So if you like the way a Duro 26 x 3 fixed muni feels “gearing wise”, then a 650b x 2.35 is very close. If you want a lower gear for climbing/tech muni/Schlumpf, then a 26" x 2.35 would be a good choice. The Hans Dampf Super Gravity comes in a 26" version for all four enduro tires, as do most other brands of enduro tires.
I think of my 650B HD SG as a skinny and lighter version of the 26 x 3" Duro, kinda like a Duro Jr 
If you go to a narrower rim and save ~200gm, this will offset the added ~200gms of the Super Gravity construction, then if you go tubeless you lose another ~200 gms. Is the SG construction worth the weight? Yes.
Think beefier construction, so more flat proof, more support at lower pressures, better able to maintain shape/support on a narrow rim. I couldn’t ride low pressure on an HD tubeless, min pressure was 25psi without excessive burping. On an HD SG I can run tubeless with pressure in the mid teens and I have no significant burping, the ride is waaaay more comfortable, and the tire is more grippy.
What tire do you ride on your 29"?
back onto rim width
User Davidp mentions in the other 650b thread that going from the 38mm KH XC rim to the 47mm KH rim on a 29" made a surprising difference in stability.
That is only 9mm wider and he believes he noticed a change. As i had also with my 700c schlumpf.
Wondering if i run a tubeless 29 hans and forfit the opportunity to run a Super Gravity version, Keep pressure up and wide rim. I will be light as i can be without sacrificing stability or speed of a 29er on a wide rim.
As i found the 700c guni is so rigid and difficult to control like balancing a pin on its head im finding maybe a 650b wont give me all my 29er offers. Specially going tubeless with a 29er hans.
I probably missed it Ben, can i ask what crank length will you mount on the 650b and why. Cheers
I dropped down to 150/125, and I could probably tolerate 137’s. It sounds like you prefer shorter cranks (137?).
I can climb better on the 650b with 150’s than I could with the 29" with 165’s. I spin easier and I don’t feel like I lost any significant downhill or tech control. I felt like I needed 165’s on the 29er so that I could climb steep stuff and manage steep downhills, but it was wearing me out!
I can tell the 650b HD is smaller than the 29" HD, it’s a little more twitchy, not quite as easy to bridge obstacles, but it’s a small difference that I quickly forgot, esp since it was easier to ride overall. I don’t think I’d feel that way if I had a 26" HD SG.
When I decided to sell my 26" muni last year (KH 26 Freeride, 150/125 Moments, Duro/Arrow Racing 2.6"), it was because there was such a clear difference when bouncing back and forth from the 29" to the 26", that I just couldn’t tolerate the 26" on anything flowy; and I didn’t need a tech only muni.
It is more likely due to the new wheel build than rim change.
I no longer believe the wide rim myth, it doesn’t make sense in terms of how a tire is designed. We are using MTB tires which are designed for much narrower rims than we generally use for muni. I suppose if you want to run a lightweight “flimsy” tire, then a wider rim “could” help, but then why run a lightweight tire and a heavy weight rim??
I rode my 29er for the past year on a 42mm Nimbus D2, and I never noticed the loss of 5mm over the KH Freeride, so then I went to the Blunt 35 and I still didn’t notice a difference; though the weight loss was nice
Ya know, until recently, the 650b woudln’t have even been a consideration 
If you do fine on the 29" right now, I’d think that a lighter/narrower rim and an upgrade tire would be good enough: Velocity Blunt 35 - 29" 36h + Schwalbe Magic Mary 29 x 2.3 Super Gravity tubless
My 29er is now a Knard 3", the 29 x 2.35 HD is for sale!
I have a Hans trailstar @ about 30psi give or take the pump gauge.
Riding geared on 29 more often than not yes its only going 1:1. If I can crank out rapidly then I have room to gear up. Gearing up I usually dont travel much faster than a full cadence 1:1. Its simply for the leisure endurance and touch of extra speed. Therefore over distance nice to have. And in a long mtb race with technical fire trails and touring stages I should get ample opportunity to gear up. Reason I turned down going 26 guni is in1:1 its slower than most peoples ability. Not as stable geared up and won’t roll over as easy what the big wheel rolls over without blinking.
Looking on the schlumpf list it seems many riders still lace a 29er. Looks quite evenly spread.
I did think like a bike for a moment. Roll geared up most the time and go 1:1 when it gets hard. But 1:1.5 is a hard ratio to find best of both worlds as we all agree. Would love to get a lower high gear ratio.
Pushing 40" is fun and doable. We probably have ridden 36 on trails by now? Besides climbs which such its great and 29er up gear is just bit slower cadence if you think this way