If I rode my unicycle on anything but the backstreets and pavements here in Reading UK I would die. The one way system is crazy at the best of times and just plain evil at rush hour. Entering the town form London at rush hour, you need to get in lane 3 miles out if you dont want to have to cut people up. Thankfuly I can avoid most problems by going into town on the tow path alongside the river and to university via some side streets. Campus seems to be ok to ride on, I got told off for inline skating once (about 11pm in a deserted car park, no one in sight) but only got told not to unicycle when I was ontop of a wall with some juggling clubsâŚ
When you get you uni back, perhaps you should ride down the street juggling fire clubs?
those regulations may well have been formulated without thought given to unicycles and the enforcement officerâs interpretation of those laws is obviously flawed
but explaining that here is preaching to the choir
u have an opportunity to take part in local government in the most meaningfull way, educating the law-makers
Are there any laws about protesting downtown? You could make a poster which quickly explains the situation (people wonât stop if thereâs too much information), have a copy of the bylaw, and maybe a diagram of how a unicycle is nothing like a skateboard. Get a well-drafted petition (or poll), and collect at least 1000 signatures.
Write a news brief and send it into the local paper. It may be odd enough (police confiscate unicycle-- local man protests) that they might want to do a story on you. You may get enough support that the people pressure the council into doing something.
On the other hand, this could horribly ruin your chances of them ever changing the law. It would be a risk, but maybe a good one after youâve exhausted every other avenue.
Edit: If you do end up protesting, make sure you get some legal council first. Make sure your petition is worded correctly, and make sure youâre not breaking any laws so that they canât arrest you on a technicality.
I think we also need to ask why the special laws have been set up for bicycles, skateboards, inline skates, etc. My town also has some laws about use of these items in areas of significant pedestrian use. Some of these laws have been set up to protect the pedestrians from careless people who have not considered the others around them. Some of the laws have been set up to protect public and private property from damage.
I do not know of any police who donât want people to have fun. But they must enforce laws that hopefully have been set up for everyone and not to favor a few people. I think it would be a tough job to enforce the laws the and to keep a balance for everyone. Iâm not saying there arenât cops who have a bad attitude. Nor would I say there arenât uni riders with bad attitudes.
I think this thread helps us all see that how and where we ride our unis can and will affect our future riding options and the options for upcoming riders. When I see the street trials videos, I am impressed with the riding. But am also concerned about the damage being done to picnic tables, railings, concrete walls, benches, etc. There are many tricks being developed that are causing significant damage to public and private property.
My I remind everyone that this type of behavior has greatly restricted the use of bicycles and especially skateboards in urban areaa. I have some trials opportunities in my town that I would love to do, but will not because I think it would not be respectful and considerate of the property and the owners. If I want others to respect me, I need respect their interests and desires also.
I am sad to hear your story Rowan and I am not bashing you or your actions. I just thought this thread would be a good place to say, âLetâs be sure our riding is showing proper respect for others and their property, especially those who donât understand us.â
I agree with your assessment, Bill. If skateboarders never did anything to endanger themselves or others and never did any property damage, they probably wouldnât be banned from most of the areas they are banned from.
I just think itâs ridiculous that Rowan got a ticket for riding in a completely respectful manner which was not endangering anyone any more than someone who was talking on a cell phone and not paying attention to where they were going. Those cops really did seem to have an attitude, especially by calling a unicycle a skateboard. By any definition, a unicycle is completely unlike a skateboard. Yes, Trials and Street has blurred that distinction slightly, but itâs still a ridiculous claim.
Bill, I agree that some have taken liberties with others property that they shouldnât. The destructive behavior is what should be regulated, not people traveling from point A to point B. In the US we have a 5th amendment right to Liberty which includes travel.
"In the U.S., the right to travel is derived from the synthesis of several rights. This was quite well laid out in Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958) at 125-126.
âThe right to travel is a part of the `libertyâ of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. . . . Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was a part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country, . . . may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values.â"
So when laws are passed that restrict these âfreedomsâ and ârightsâ we should be outraged. Too many times people think that the ârightâ to travel is a privilege, but in reality it is a right. I donât think vandalism should be protected. I donât think it is appropriate to restrict freedom to prevent the possibility of vandalism. Private property like malls, can restrict whatever they want like skateboards, skates, etcâŚ
I donât know anything about the Constitution or guarantee of rights in New Zealand, but this may be an angle to look into. I would pursue it here if I was in a similar situation and felt like fighting it.
I agree that enforcement needs to be made, but to me, confiscation seems like a pretty stiff penalty. Maybe a warning first and then confiscation if it appears that a warning will not do, but not necessarily straight up confiscation no questions asked. The conditions under which law enforcement is necessary should also be considered. If heâs riding his unicycle across the sidewalk (I guess that would be referred to as âpavementâ to any non-north americans) in order to get to the road where he intends on riding, there is really no need for any enforcement of any law because heâs really not breaking it. Cars arenât supposed to drive on the sidewalk, but when you back out of your driveway, you drive right across the sidewalk. I think you get my point.
âI am still allowed to ride on the road without a helmet, but it is so hard to not ride on the footpath. It is a habit of mine to always ride on the footpath through town, where it is safest and sheltered from the rain/sun.â
If you want to get laws changed, first youâll have to develop credibility with the people you are trying to influence. If you demonstrate a willingness to follow the law, thatâs a starting point. Then you can work on âfixingâ that law.
It definitely sounds to me like unicycles are wrongly included with skateboards. If bicycles are specifically not included in that law, why are unicycles included? The drivetrain and many parts of the machine are the same. Work from there. Even if you get the unicycle classified along with bicycles, it leaves you with a legal standing. I donât think they will resolve anything to leave you in a gray area. You will either be a bicycle or a skateboard, or if thereâs a third set of rules, whatever that is.
Your own personal riding skills are not at issue with changing or interpreting a law. It either applies to all unicyclists or none. Unicycles are inherently unstable vehicles, and if the footpath in discussion is a crowded pedestrian area, that means it is likely filled with people going in different directions, strollers/prams, etc. If skateboards are not welcome, it is understandable that unicycles might not be either. If bicycles are not allowed on there, I doubt youâre going to get permission for unicycles only.
So if anything, even though it doesnât solve your immediate need, I still think people should gear the law toward treating unicycles the same as bicycles. Once you have a âniche,â you have all the protections of whatever laws exist. Until that happens, they can pretty much be inconsistent and apply all the wrong laws to you.
Iâve blasted past loads of coppers on the pavement in Exeter (UK) on my unicycle, sometimes even when itâs pretty busy. They generally tend to smile and laugh! Maybe they assume that Iâm not a danger to the public, or something. It sounds like your po-lice are pretty tight-assed where you come from. Comisserations about the fine, mate.
I had problems with a colorado state patrol when I was a kid riding my schwinn giraffe unicycle on the highway in front of our house, I would ride the mile or so to a friendâs house on the shoulder of the highway which was four lanes with a divider and ten foot shoulders, so there was plenty of room. The first time he stoped me he said the unicycle was a toy the same as a skateboard and that it was illegal to ride on the highway, the second time he yelled at me and thretend to confiscate my unicycle if I did it again. I went to the city police department and I talked to an officer who looked up what the definition of a bicycle was and it didnât specify how many wheels a bicycle needed to be a bike and he thought that a unicycle met the definition and he wrote me a letter that included the definition and that in his oppinion it was a legal vehicle. I then went riding again letter in pocket and it took a few rides before he came along, when he stoped me again he was furious, but after showing him the letter he relented and allowed me to continue riding my unicycle.
We were having similar problems in Telluride with a couple of officers, one of the telluride marshals was telling us we should get out of the street and that we should be on the sidewalk, and another would tell us to get off the sidewalk, that we should be riding in the street. I called my parrents to see if they could find the letter from before and they did and sent it to me and after showing it to the officers they also agreed that a unicycle was a bike and let us ride in the street. that was a long time ago and now those officers are gone and we havenât hade any trouble riding on the sidewalks or in the street.
Itâs to bad so much of the inforcement of the law is in how a particular officer interprets it, what I would recomend is to try and find a legal definition of of a bicycle and see if it includes unicycles. and if itâs the city police that are giving you trouble try to get a state or county or federal officer to give you support, I dont know how the police departments are structured in New Zealand so I dont know if this would be any help, anyway good luck to you. Dan
Yes, the rights, our rights, need to be protected. But what if I choose to express my right to ride my unicycle down the middle lane of a highway. I will be hindering the rights of others and creating a dangerous situation as I use my right. An extreme example, but I say this to show that living out and using oneâs ârightsâ can and does affect others.
Need I remind you that many people consider trying to ride a unicycle âdangerousâ, let alone doing the amazing tricks that many can do. If I do something dangerous around other people, then I have a good chance of endangering them also. I hope (I am often optimistic) that the existing and new laws are trying to protect the citizens of that area. In a world where so many people are self centered, someone often needs to create rules to attempt to bring a balance to the situation. We need to help educate those who are making the rules so they serve the good of all, not just the majority (the non uni riders).
I am not saying the laws and those who enforce them are right in what they are doing. But if we try to understand their perspective, desires and frustrations, we will be better able to influence their actions. Know your âenemyâ and you will have a better chance of defeating them. Better yet, love your enemy and make them want to help and protect you!
toddw9 - Is confiscating a uni the way to do it? NO. I do not agree with this approach.
John Foss said it wellâŚ
"If you want to get laws changed, first youâll have to develop credibility with the people you are trying to influence. If you demonstrate a willingness to follow the law, thatâs a starting point. Then you can work on âfixingâ that law. "
If at all possible, I believe approaching this issue using Johnâs philosophy would best serve the uni community.
tellurider - I like the way you dealt with your problem. Well thought out and it was great that you used the opinion of the police, in writing, to back up your rights. Good move! Plus you approached it in a cooperative manner by asking for clarification of the law.
Good luck to you Rowan as you try to educate the authorities in your area. I hope you find an effective solution for yourself and the uni community.
Enough of my rambling⌠I hope I havenât bored too many of you.
Unfortunately this is not at issue. They are not keeping him from traveling. Just as a bicycle is not allowed on a superhighway, they are trying to define what is allowed on the local footpath, with presumably public safety in mind.
The bicycle solution, of course may end in officially prohibiting Rowan from using said footpath, but at the same time would offer him protection under all laws that apply to bicycles. Including the ridiculousness of penalizing him for riding across it. Somehow I think Rowanâs story and the story from the townâs point of view would have discrepancies.
Hey, I am just throwing out ideas, I never said they were good. You are free to throw them out as well.
I will say this though⌠Just because we have allowed our freedoms and rights to be eroded in the name of public safety doesnât mean they are not still rights.
As far as riding down the middle of a busy road, I am not sure whether or not stupidity is a protected right.
I have a question. How can the government regulate a particular activity as a safety issue if there has never been an issue? Unicycles are not even mentioned in the regulation that Rowan is being fined with. If unicycles had been an issue, they would be named specificly, you wouldnât have to force the ambigous nature of their regulation to fit the moment. There isnât a sfety issue, nor have they ever had one. It is simply a matter of government trying to prevent an issue before it can occur. Reminds me of a movie with Tom Cruise. Canât remember the name. The jist is they arrest you before you can commit the crime in the future.
Used to be we had a Court of Law⌠Criminal law. You broke the law you were punished.
And a Court of Equity⌠Civil Law. You injured someone you paid.
Now they are merged into one so the government can claim to be the injured party w/o any injury and take our money at will. You got to love progress.
Are you calling me a liar John? My story is true, I have no reason to lie. I was warned by Toni Haggart, she sent me the bylaw, and then I had it confiscated, and confiscated again by another officer, but I disagreed with her interpretation so I donât believe it was a fair warning. I am sure that it is a case of certain members of the Police force not liking me. I went to the police station today to find out the laws on riding a âSkateboardâ on the road, because if it is not allowed it would support my arguement that unicycles are not skateboards. The officer (who was the same guy who took my unicycle the second time) refused to help me, and would not tell me anything useful. He asked me my name, and I told him, and I asked his name and he wouldnât answer. It is one of my rights to ask the name and the badge number of a police officer in NZ, and he (the nameless) denied me of that right. Iâm sick of the way they are treating me. Iâve been more than two weeks without my MUni now and it is pretty depressing. It will be a long time before I can afford to pay the fine. I am getting free legal advice next wednesday, and I am working on a letter to send to the council and police.
Sounds to me like you are definitly dealing with a couple dicks with badges RowanâŚif all is as you have described it then Iâd say you are surely being singled out for one reason or another.
Being a typical American Iâd get legal council and then sue the sh*t out of them when I find they are in the wrong. Iâd get the media involved too
Iâve pretty much finished writing my letter to the council, and one of my best points is how if you take the law literally, almost anything can be classed as a skateboard if it has wheels (or a wheel). If you are pushing your unicycle down the street it could be classed as riding a skateboard, because if any part of your body is touching it while moving then your skateboard can be confiscated. Iâve made a table which contrasts the differences between unicycles and skateboards:
UNICYCLES
One wheel
Has a seat
Direct drive (slow like tricycle)
Uses pedals like bicycle & tricycle
Allowed on the road
There are not many riders
Have not caused damage/nuisance
SKATEBOARDS
Small wheels
Has no seat
Freewheel (fast like bicycle)
Doesnât have pedals
Not allowed on the road (the Police refuse to say)
There are a lot of riders
Have caused damage/nuisance in the past
Iâve also made the point that the Police can arrest me at any time for disorderly conduct if I ride in a manner that endangers pedestrians or damages property, and because I do not do any of those things they had to use something else. I canât wait to get my MUni back. I will not ride it on the footpath again once I get it back because I canât afford the $140 fine (which it will be next time) or the permanent confiscation which they threatened me with (not that it says that in the bylaw). The public are all mostly on my side, and think it is rediculous for the Police to expect me to ride on the road. I hope this mess will turn out for the best!
