Another beginner - Devon UK

Dont know if it’s the best advice when starting, especially indoor with no bumps on the floor. Most methods/videos/tutors suggest that the uni and the back of the rider should be a continuous line.
On muni or fast road riding, yes you might get some angle in order to spring to dampen a sudden bump ; but not indoor.

Good video, you’re getting there. Couldn’t quite see which uni it is. Ditch the 16", those things are reassuring because you’re closer to the floor, but that’s all. I’m not the best rider out there, but each time I tried one, I couldn’t ride them for more than 5 yards, and that was a struggle!

I just watched this guy. He is obviously able to ride the thing, but the learning process is well defined, but, watching him I see the hub of the unicycle is immediately below and inline with his spine, but the contours of his body, even though he is on a flat level surface, look more like a sort of question mark in profile. The actual frame of the unicycle is still leaning a trifle to the rear, not much, but enough still to make sure his centre of gravity is right above the hub. I watched another video of some girls riding theirs and they have the seats dragging on the floor, but still unicycling easily enough..

The continuous line advice is a persistent myth that is easily disproved even in the videos of those who recommend it.

It is impossible for the unicycle to maintain a leaning forward position without very quickly going to UPD. For any stable system, the centre of mass must be over the point of contact. In theory it can be done by having both the body and unicycle vertical but this results in directional instability due to the lack of trail in the steering geometry.

All forwards riding is done with the body slightly leaning forward and the uni slightly leaning back. This geometry overcomes some of the tendency for the pedalling to rotate the uni around the vertical axis.

This was discussed at length in this thread. The first post includes a link to a video that recommends it and in another I point out where the rider brings the uni into the normal leaning back position immediately after taking off.

I also invited anyone to find a photo of a rider with the uni leaning forward. None were provided.

I explained that leaning the uni forward with the body is a starting out situation to get initial momentum from the “fall” and the uni is brought quickly underneath to counteract it. I think I also posted that on the thread with the video.

When I taught my sons to ride they commented that the advice to get the uni leaning backwards after taking off was a really important piece of advice. My elder son was riding ten metres across grass after half an hour in the saddle.

Novice riders need a substantial lean or they will not be able to control direction. I can’t see how much lean SpinningWoman has from her video but directional stability is clearly an issue for her.

Sorry I didn’t mean to start a war about the angle. You are absolutely right that it’s not possible to be an absolute extension of the seat post - though some freestyle riders get close to it, in a gymnasium with almost no rolling resistance in the flattest ground possible.

I haven’t taught many people, but I noticed that if you say to a beginner “slight angle”, the next thing you see is them totally crouched on the uni. By saying “straight”, they get a chance to feel the wheel and the forces at work. And they naturally do the slight angle.

The other thing I noticed is that we all learn to go straight first - whether launching in the big void or holding a fence/wall. Steering comes later. And sitting straight (with the very slight angle that shouldn’t be mentioned) helps getting the feel for pedaling from the saddle.

Hi Spinningwoman

Just watched your latest video. You’re getting better at it. Reminds me of when I first learnt to ride: the unicyle feels out of control and the only thing you can do is to carry on pedalling for as long as possible.. As other people have already said the only thing you can do at the learning stage is to carry on practising and your body/muscle will learn to adjust the balance to stay upright without having to think about it. You are nearly there :slight_smile:

Truly awful session this morning, leaving me wondering if there really is something about this that I am just not physically equipped to get. And yes, I know - ‘your practice sessions may go down as well as up’ and I’m sure tomorrow or the next day it will all feel different again. But today, I hardly managed anything over 4 pedal-strokes except for one time when, deliberately exaggerating in order to see if I could get the seat post leaning backwards, I launched off almost bent double at the waist and went right across the room. Of course, that wasn’t repeatable either. And the benefits I experienced yesterday from the ‘sit up straighter’ cue weren’t in evidence either.

The only hopeful thing is that I certainly managed to fail in a variety of different ways, rather than repetitively in the same way every time.

Two things. One, is that waving my arms around and twisting my hips to balance isn’t something that comes naturally. Some of the best runs I have had, and one of the reasons I like the sixteen inch, is that when I make a slightly exaggerated effort to twist towards each pedal stroke, it sometimes comes together and feels more balanced and in control. Ditto, sometimes, holding my arms quite high (Think gibbon rather than aeroplane). But neither of those things feels natural and I rarely get them right, nor do I feel like I generally have time to use them to recover. If you say to my body ‘balance’, its natural impulse is to try to move as little as possible so as not to disturb the existing poise. Clearly, the balance I am trying to achieve here is a dynamic, not static, balance, so that isn’t a good strategy, but it doesn’t seem to have got the memo and is still doing the equivalent of a hedgehog rolling itself up to hide from an oncoming truck. Plus the ‘twist hips’ idea is part of what sets me off on the right-hand spiral right from the off.

Secondly, remember I am a very different body shape to most of you; small (5’) with, being female, a naturally low centre of gravity. (Though for reasons of vanity I feel I would like to point out that I am wearing Roller-Derby padded shorts under my jeans in the videos.) My inside leg is only 27", and the 20" has the seat at almost its lowest point of adjustment for me. Plus, I don’t have the important and delicate pieces of luggage that most of you have to make room for at the front of the saddle. I can’t for the life of me see how I can have the seat post leaning back even a little bit unless I lean so far forward that my body is practically parallel to the floor. There just isn’t enough of me to draw the necessary triangle. I have taken a video of me trying various positions, which I will look at and maybe post later.

If nothing else, this thread is certainly creating healthy debate globally… stick with it is my only advice now.!

Now I see what pierrox is worried about when we mention the unicycle leaning backwards. It is actually only a few degrees of angle. But at least you ave explored the full range.:wink:

Sounds like you are trying to force the uni to go in the direction you want by twisting.

Balance isn’t about twisting the hips but pushing them to the side causing the uni to lean. A leaning wheel takes a curved path in the direction of the lean. Your body will counter-lean to maintain the balance which might seem counter intuitive because you would expect to lean your body into the turn. Leaning the body into the turn comes much later.

There’s a grammer school in my neighborhood with over a hundred unicyclist and most learned on a 20" wheel. Many are girls. All are under 5 feet. Of course they’ve got tons of help from other students and a coach.

You’re doing well. Keep trying different things so you don’t get in a rut. You’ll be so thrilled once you get it.

I’ve tried several different saddles and keep going back to the KH Street for road riding and the KH Freeride for muni. I’m not convinced that one saddle made just for women would work for all women. It would be such a small market. There are tons of girls that unicycle but not so many women.

Using my arms to balance while learning helped me. Eventually it’s better to balance from your core without using your arms

Sounds like this effort is a totally new experience for your body. That’s great. You should stretch your limits when possible.:slight_smile:

Yeah, I’m not going to try and go into what I mean by the hip twisting thing, except that it has come up in a few of the learning threads as being something that people have found helpful in the initial stages and it made sense to me. I think at this stage I’m getting the impression that everyone finds different ‘cues’ helpful at different times, and those cues dont always relate to what is actually happening if you look at your body from the outside but may nevertheless be helpful in giving you a nudge in a helpful direction. Unfortunately nobody really knows what cues will help someone else, but if you share them with me I’ll see if they help.

Just to be clear, I didn’t really think that anyone was suggesting leaning the seat post right back or leaning right forward - I was deliberately exaggerating the movement to try and feel what it felt like. The surprise was that I got my best run out of it.

And also, I have no doubt that I or anyone else can learn on a 20". My point is only that the 16" is no more stupid a choice for me than a 20" would be for someone a foot taller and 60lbs heavier than me. And also that my centre of gravity is s lot lower than my chest.

It’s certainly the only advice I have it in my power to follow!

I feel ya. There are just some days when it’s not there. In many previous posts we’ve discussed how long it takes some of us to warm up. There are days when I just need an hour or so before I’m really ready to do anything technical or have any endurance, and there are days when I have no skills or endurance, regardless of how long I warm up.

I’m going through something similar to what you’re experiencing learning to juggle. I wanted to do something that would be fun and work out my upper body a bit. I seem to make good progress one day, and then there are days when I almost can’t do it at all.

Yesterday, I was doing very well, but today, I can barely get 2-3 repetitions with the balls, and then they go launching across the room. It’s very frustrating! I thought after three weeks I should be doing better because I somehow managed to juggle three balls on the first day of practice, but today I’m all over the place now. It’s also really tiring to continually bend over and pick up balls up off the floor. That’ll wear you out fast!

At the last juggling club meeting, I was able to juggle for about 2 minutes when I first arrived, and after that it took me two hours before I could juggle again worth a damn. The previous meeting I had done so well that I was passing balls with another person while juggling. It’s even more frustrating in a social setting around masterful jugglers, but everyone is supportive and seems to understand. Apparently, they all go through the same thing.

Both juggling and unicycling require very fine motor skills, visual acuity, and all kinds of complicated stuff. It doesn’t take much to really knock these things off balance (no pun intended). It could be too much coffee, not enough coffee, not enough sleep, subconscious issues about your family, work, etc. Almost anything can upset that fine balance in these early, tenuous days of learning do something requiring this level of skill. Only with repeated practice over the course of weeks and months will you get the point where outside influences will effect you less and less, and even then, there may be days where they will. You just have to push through it and have faith that it will be different the next day. It almost always is. When I’m having a bad day, I just remind myself to feel proud that I even ride a unicycle at all (very few will ever even attempt this) and that I should feel especially proud to keep going on the off days. Even going as far as you have with learning to ride, and even attempting to learn, you’ve done more than less than 1% of the population of the world, and you are already in an elite class of people in that regard. Remember to be proud of that!

What seems to get me back on track during the “bad days” with juggling is just to chill out for a bit and then start from the beginning with one ball, then two balls, and then three balls, and I take lots of breaks when I get tired or frustrated. It doesn’t help me to give up, but it doesn’t help to practice while I’m really frustrated either, so I just take enough breaks to keep from feeling overwhelmed or tired and keep trying.

Maybe on days where it seems you’re not getting anywhere and feel frustrated, you might just take a break for a bit and then sit in the saddle, or pedal around holding onto something and warm up a bit before trying to ride unsupported. Just take as many breaks as you need, get a good night’s rest and hit it again the next day.

Oh, and pierrox, if anyone should apologize for starting a war about the angle of the seat post, it should be me. I was the one that originally mentioned it, so you’re off the hook! :slight_smile:

Center of gravity = most weight ?

All of mine is much lower than most! :slight_smile: I think that’s an advantage when unicycling.

I learned on a 24" wheel and I’m 5’5". When I did get a 20" it was hard to ride because it wiggled so much.

We all have differences so what works for one person might not apply to all.

You’ll figure it out eventually.

My favorite advice that I read while learning:

“Keep getting on until you stop falling off.” :slight_smile:

So… We all said there’d be days like that but it doesn’t count because—why? Because it’s exactly how we said it would be!? :slight_smile:

Those were the times when I went back to the wall beside my patio and rode back and forth along it, forwards and backwards, left arm on the wall then right arm on the wall, doing controlled dismounts after a few turns to the front and then to the back, all of that. I think sometimes it’s better to fall back and do things we can can succeed at, even if they’re almost trivially easy, rather than doggedly trying and failing at something that just isn’t working that day.

You had a bad day but it’s only one day. It’s all part of the journey and you’re definitely getting there.

I’ve been a bit scared of going ‘back to the wall’ in case it interrupts the process. What I did this morning in the end what what I do with archery when I can’t hit anything - go so close I can’t actually miss and then move back a pace at a time. I think I’m allowed at least one tantrum every 40 days, aren’t I?

Sometimes the best thing is to take a break for several days. Many unicyclists, including me, have reported that they rode surprising better after an extended break.

It gives the brain a chance to reconsolidate.

Day 49/41

You guys are great. Don’t think I don’t appreciate it. Posting here is really helping to keep me from getting discouraged. Today was OK - not great, but I made it across the width of the hall a few times. I have to say, now that the mornings are darker it is much less pleasant getting up to practice before work! If I hadn’t got access to the hall now, I don’t know what I would be doing.

I’m adding a couple of little clips from yesterday’s Day of Doom and Despondency. This one is just the one I took so I could get an idea of how my posture looked from the outside.

This one is trying to deliberately exaggerate leaning forward and tilting the seat post back, though of course I didn’t get video of my weirdly successful first run at that!

I stopped the second clip at 1.45, it shows you riding just before the fall, but it does also show the frame upright deviation I was talking about. My wife watched me, and my frame goes backwards and forwards like a pendulum as I pedal away apparently. I also lean forward quite heavily at first when up and riding, but sort of straighten up when on the comfortable move. This happens when I make good, and sure I am seated and not relying on the pedals to take the weight. I still cannot get far, but I am maintaining the distances earned as I progress. I am finding it very hard and frustrating still though, so you are not alone. Keep it up, you look a lot more comfortable on the cycle than you did when starting out.

After watching that last video, I think you’re doin’ just fine. You’re definately gettin’ it. You’re well on your way.