32h ISIS hubs for trials: a simple breakthrough

Unicycles and Equipment
1

Hey

As you might know, I am a Trials rider (bike) that got into unicycling through a local friend who already did Uni trials. All this time, I was fascinated by the amount of components crossed over from both sports. Uni trials borrowed heavily off biketrials components, especially in the wheel area.

However, there lies a small kink. 32h rims and hubs have been the ‘standard’ in biketrials for many many years now, with all the top brands (Echo, Koxx, Monty, Onza, and countless others) pumping their latest rim innovations into the 32h market. We, in unicycling use 36h, which is very very rare in biketrials. Only a small handful of rims are in 36h, and most of them are generic and weak designs that haven’t been changed for around half a decade.

Before, I thought it’d be good to encourage biketrials brands to produce their best rims in 36h, but it just isn’t happening. Why? For various reasons:

-Rims come in various colours and models for each brand, and making 32h AND 36h would just add to costs, and lead to surplus in many cases
-36h is not profitable in the biketrials world since pretty much 99% of biketrials hubs are 32h.
-36h drilled rims are actually structurally weaker than 32h, those of you who’ve snapped the thin joints of metal between the spoke hole and large hole on the inner wall of drilled rims know what’s up.
-^This issue here is less of a problem on 32h rims, MUCH less of a problem, since there are less spoke drillings, this allows the ‘gap’ between the spoke holes and larger dirlled holes to be wider, so it’s far more resistant against snapping pieces off.
-36h adds 4 more spokes than 32h, obvious isn’t it? But for those weight weenies out there, 4 spokes can add a lot of weight.

Thus, I propose that 32h hubs to become another common standard in unicycling:

-32h really isn’t much weaker than 36h at all. A good quality wheelbuild and careful maintenance on occasion will keep a 32h wheel intact, pretty much what you’d do with ANY wheel really?
-32h hubs will instantly open up a myriad of new options to choose from in the biketrials world
-For the new KH 2009 hubs, it’s ideal since the new aluminium flanges are separate pieces. So surely, Kris, could you not order the factory to drill some of these flanges 32h instead of only in 36h? It shouldn’t cost any more than usual since you don’t need any special custom moulds.

Here are some new rims people will be able to ride with once 32h ISIS hubs are available:

Echo 2009 CNC SL rim:

Onza 128 rim

750×562 48.7 KB

Weight: 481g
INFO: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?product_id=10567&category_id=517

Onza Pro Series rim

Weight: 435g

Try-All hOle rim (NB: single wall rim!)

Weight: 437g
Info: http://www.tartybikes.co.uk/product.php?product_id=10653&category_id=517

Monty 221Ti rim
(This rim isn’t titanium despite the name. The name is derived from it coming built on the Monty 221Ti bikes where it features small titanium parts like bolts, spokes, etc…)

Weight: 427g
Info:

I know that Koxx-One are planning on releasing a 32h hub of theirs already, but talks of 32h hubs have exchanged between Roger Davies and Joe Hodges in the past too. It’s really not a bad idea at all, and it holds up to the harshest biketrials riders to this day. I know people will say unicyclists put more stress on the wheels… Well, in trials, that is highly debateable. Both sports put huge stress on the 19" wheels. You see all those riders like Neil Tunnicliffe, Craig Lee Scott, Damon Watson, and the Koxx team on YouTube yeah? Well, they all use 32h rims. Sure there are breakages, but hell, 36h would not hold up any better. Quality of the wheelbuild is crucial though.

At the same time, 32h is the standard on MTBs as well, yep, the DH, Dirt Jump, Freeride, Northshore, pretty much everyone’s using 32h there. (Suspension doesn’t save their wheels, incase you thought so)

It’s not going to work by getting biketrials manufacturers to make 36h rims. No way, they just won’t do it for the reasons I pointed out earlier in the post. However, just producing 32h hubs in unicycling won’t be very hard. This’ll add to the weight reduction craze that many people have going, and it isn’t that much of a strength penalty either. It’s still strong enough, don’t let the number fool you.

Here’s another external benefit: With the introduction of 32h hubs, this’ll mean uni riders will start buying up the various 32h rims on offer, which mean trials retailers are getting better support, and the actual brands are getting more profit and popularity by having a whole new world of riders thrusted into their market. By economic theory, this’ll lead to “abnormal profit” which in turn can be used for better R&D purposes, which in future can lead to even more innovative products. Overall, this’ll be doing the entire trials world a favour.

Kris, if you could consider this option, it shouldn’t be any more expensive than producing your 36h hubs in theory!

Thanks for reading

:wink:

EDIT: Also, for those riding 24 or 26", this’ll also open up a lot of options in the MTB world too. The rims tend to be narrower than trials-derived rims, but the quality is far far far higher than that of any trials rim, without a doubt.

2

+1
it would also expand the world of unicycling so it gets more attention

3

+1
You can only agree to a post like this.

When 32 hole hubs are released just be sure not to buy a DOB rim. EVER!! hahaha

32 hole hubs will bring endless options on rims and colours.

4

Yah I would like to see 32h rims/hubs for trials wheels and for compatibility with other bike parts but I would like to see the larger wheels stick with the larger spoke count.

I have a 26" wheel with an echo drilled rim and there is plenty of metal around the spoke holes going with less spokes would not help with strength. I also have a 19" Try-All rim that is drilled out and have to agree that a bit more metal around the spoke holes would be beneficial.

In the bike world 36 is starting to come back mostly thanks to the DH and 29er crowd. It is stronger when you don’t drill your rims.

Koxx talked about making a 32h hub but nothing ever came of it. As a bike trials company I would have thought that they would have done it a long time ago for more compatibility with their trials wheels.

I have a project that has been on hold for the last 3 months involving a 32h rim. I have been holding out on buying a hub for it just in case but I might just have to lace it up to a 48H hub.

5

I’m not suggesting that 36h be scrapped by any means, ohhh No.

It’d just be good to have both 32h ad 36h. Those harsh street riders can choose to stick with their 36h and undrilled rims whilst those others can benefit hugely from 32h.

Also, I do know full well that the 26" rims don’t suffer from the inner-wall snappage compared to 19" rims. But I’m directing this topic mainly towards riders using 19" wheels. Of course, larger wheeled riders can benefit too.

At first KH might experience a tiny fall in 36h rim sales because of this, but I know there would still be those out there that want to buy 36h because they’re ridiculously harsh (20set street riders, you know who you are! ;))… But heck, if KH went on to produce 32h 19" rims as a supporting product, then you would see massive surges of popularity in the biketrials world if advertised and marketed effectively. Which in turn would make the KH brand more noticed in the biketrials world, leading to more people wanting to see what unicycling’s about. This inevitably leads to a growing unicycle population. This is all theory of course, but very realistic!

6

Right on

7

+1 to like this whole thread, and I don’t even ride trials :roll_eyes:

8

Not all theory, really. KH rims are well-respected in the MTB 29er world, where they’re known for being wider and stronger than most available 29er rims–a big fave with clydesdales, especially. I believe that he produces a 32 hole 29er rim, though. At any rate, I’d probably keep using the 36 hole system with my munis (I don’t ride trials) as long as KH makes good 36 hole rims for those, but I think the addition of 32 hole systems (hub and rims) would indeed be a benefit all around.

9

I was only talking about 19" rims in particular in that paragraph; but anyways I’m not an expert on the muni/distance riding field.

The main point of 32h is to bring benefits to 19" and trials/street/flat. I’m not really into going into details for munis/recumbent/distance sizes, but hey there would be some benefits still.

10

+1

Woorrrdd :sunglasses:

would luv 2 ride with one of those rims . please make them Kris!!! :smiley: i would def buy one

11

This is a really well developed thread and argument. This appears to be something that would be beneficial for the unicycling community. I agree with all of it until you get to the end.

Making big plans and suggesting that someone else foot the bill and take the risk is just bad form. Especially making the unsupportable argument that it would be inexpensive without the benefit of some prior business, manufacturing, or marketing experience. I see this happen too often in the RSU forum. Someone has a red hot idea and are amazed when people don’t line up to develop it for them for free.

This is a good time to gather support for your idea and find out if there are suggestions for developing the product. If there is enough interest you may want to consider developing it yourself.

12

I was referring to the actual physical costs of producing a 32h hub. It doesn’t need any new custom molds or special processes, it just needs the raw flanges to be drilled out with 4 fewer holes

The new Moment hubs seem pretty dialled, and they’d be brilliant in a 32h option.

I do understand the business risks are still kicking about, but heck, Kris’s brand is pretty much the only one in unicycling that directly listens to what people in the community have to say/offer. Look what happened with that doublecrown design and the guy who thought up the idea (Matt Bunting); ideas have to start from somewhere and for them to be realised, a brand like KH is a fair way of achieving it.

This is only a minor modification to an existing product, it’s not like it won’t sell if it were made. It would be a gamble if I were proposing Kris to make a CNC’d frame, since that requires heaps of money poured into R&D, testing, and deciding whether it’s profitable or not. In this case of a 32h hub, there’s virtually zero chance of a backfire or non-profit, pretty much. No?

If another brand sees this thread and decides to pick up on it, you’re more than welcome to pursue it, it’d be doing everyone a great service, and potentially bringing more profit… Since people will want these lighter-yet-still-tough 32h wheelbuilds and the fancy new rims available to them.

13

The red rim looks like the spoke holes weren’t drilled correctly. I don’t think they’re supposed to be like that.

14

I ran into a trials biker today and he had the new Echo SE rims. all I can say is WOW they were beautiful. Made my old round holed Echo rim look sort of crude.

I almost traded him my freestyle for a lightly used HS33. In the end he decided that if he got a uni it would be a trials.

15

Kris,

You have my word, if you make the ti hub version in 32h I will buy one.

If your going crazy and getting ti to save weight, might as well go 32h. I bet most people getting ti are ready to loose 4 spokes and pick up the lightest rim available.

16

Id love this to happen but youre all forgetting that if kris make a 32 hole hub he’ll have to change his rims aswell to stop people buying other products instead.Im sure he would rather we rode kh rims lol

17

Kh is about innovation, not all cash. I for one will still ride the hell of my kh rim. Kh rim is probably stronger/ less maintenance than the echo SL or the like. Kh will still be good for street, bmx still uses 36h and there is probably a reason? Or I could just be stupid, that is possible as well.

Kh will be good for people who go massive, are not weight weenies, ride street or don’t want to pay out of the bottom for unicycles.

18

:astonished:

they’re wildly off, and so are all the medium sized holes on the sides on the red and the black rims. And that’s their official product picture? Not a very good one. I do like the general looks of those squarish cutouts and the colours.
But I’m not sure about their strength for unicycling that involves drops etc.

19

I for one can say that the colors in that picture don’t do them justice. Never saw an echo part in anything but black until today. The guy I met had all green echo bits on a Zoo frame and they were really vibrant.

Edit: I can’t remember seeing any raw aluminum from the CNC like in that picture. My guess is that those were pre-production models.

As for strength Echo says that their SL series is focused on being light but reasonably strong while their urban series is focused on being strong but reasonably light.

20

+1

I agree that 32 hole hubs would open up a lot of component choices for unicyclists.

Matt.