After having my FFR for a month I decided that I could not use it the way it was. My backside was in too much pain while riding even fairly short distances. The pain was close to unbearable.
Here are some pictures. If anyone wants specific information about anything I did you can ask here.
With the top layer of foam removed. I used the channel as a guide and found this uniform layer of foam underneath it. The white foam is glued in with vertical glue strips and these do not like to compress. I think this is one reason why the seat felt so hard to me. The top Grey foam is very easy to compress. The white foam is firmer.
Side view showing the uniform thickness of the white layer foam.
With the foam glued on. I used Loctite Stik’n Seal Original and while it worked it did not act like contact cement as it was supposed to. It was soaking into the green foam so I think it ended up being more like glue applied to one side only instead of glue on two sides.
With the foam trimmed back even with the outline of the seat.
And finally after trimming to final shape. Before I hacked up the original I took some measurements at the ends and middle so I would get a seat that fit the cover well. First I flattened the top using an 18" ruler as a sanding block until I hit the stock thickness front and back. Then I just started shaping by eye until I liked the end result
So what was the result of my experiment. I only rode it 20 minutes this morning but so far I like it better. It was no miracle, but I didn’t have the sharp pain of pointy bones on a hard surface like I used to. The foam still feels pretty soft. I think there might be better foams, perhaps something in minicell, but I had to start somewhere and for an $18 piece of foam I’m happy with the improvement.
The tools in the first picture are pretty much all I used. A $10 bread knife from WalMart, a rasp, and some 60 grit sand paper.
Sorry about the small pictures this was my first time working with a photo hosing site and I ended up linking to the preview images and I didn’t think I could get them all fixed before the 10 minute editing window ran out.
I’m not too happy with that cut-out either - I’m 95kg, and there just isn’t as much surface area to hold me up compared to my busted-a55 frankenbolt miyata seat. I’m gunna need to decide between losing weight, toughening up my butt bones/muscles, and changing the seat foam, either air or thicker foam.
I’m a solid 204lbs (about 92.5kg) and the new 2010 KH fusion seats work great. I think it’s important to point out that most of the time, your taint needs a bit of time on a seat to “settle in”. This is always the case with me. I first noticed it with road and mountain biking.
Recently, I put a 2010 KH street seat on my 36-er. Initial feeling was it’s VERY comfy. On rides longer that 2 miles though, it has been a bit rough on the taint. I am “settling in” and went on a 5 mile ride with only a little rubbing and assume that in a week or so, it’ll be the seat of my dreams
I agree that you have to give a new seat time and I waited a month, riding almost daily but after doing a 6 mile ride I knew something had to change. I rode on a Brooks saddle for years, I know all about a seat and butt needing to marry for awhile to become good friends, but it wasn’t happening for me.
Besides I like modding things so to me it was fun and a learning experience. Having ridden on it twice now I’m glad I did it.
I also found the newer KH seats are very uncomfy on my sit bones. I initially loved it on my geared 36er, but on rides longer than 8 miles or so, it is pretty uncomfy. Feels like there is harder foam, or different shaped foam in the back or something, but it is noticeably more uncomfy to sit on after a longer ride.
I should probably just cut the foam, but I am pretty lazy when it comes to things like that.
If it helps, it’s better (for me) but it’s no miracle either.
You are still sitting on a unicycle saddle and start to feel it after a few miles. What I don’t have anymore is that ‘how am I going to do another mile’ feeling after two miles. Where it really is improved is under the wider sit bones in the back. Next ride I will tilt the nose up a bit more. (for a couple of reason’s I was not doing that before).
I rode 4 miles this morning and I feel good enough that I plan to ride again later today. This was not my experience last week.
I’m not trying to pimp this mod to those who are happy/satisfied with their saddle. It helped me, and I’m glad it did since I was cutting up a $60 saddle and like a lot of people money is tight/tight. But I was getting desperate and was ready to sell/trade the saddle, so I took a chance and tried the foamendectomy. Another reason I chose to modify the stock saddle was I wanted to try ‘tuning’ the saddle a bit for my needs and I was successful in those regards. Now I know what is possible and am satisfied with the results on both counts.
But again, no miracle and if I ever do it again I will try to source foam even a bit more firm.
If someone is really/really/really desperate I will consider doing a seat for someone or two. But with shipping and small contribution to Ezas’s breakfast fund (I go to breakfast after my morning rides) I don’t think it will be cost effective. But if someone thinks it’s that important PM me.
Nice looking workmanship, Ezas.
I’ve got about 200 miles on my 2010 KH FFR and it is still uncomfy. I’ve put in 30-60 mile days on it, so I know I can tolerate it. But still, it could be significantly better. The top layer of foam seams soft enough, it’s the underlying hard foam base that I think doesn’t work so well with my sitzbones. Ideally, what I’d like to do is remove that layer of hard foam and replace it with that visco-elastic foam that you used. Of course, replacing the underlayer is trickier than replacing the top layer. Not wanting to destroy a $60 seat, I’ve held off, hoping that the seat would break in. 200 miles later and no change. Apparently, that seat was made to last.
So right now, I’m considering tearing apart my 2007 KH FFR. It’s got about 3500 km on it, so it’s more than broken in. It needs to be refurbished. I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Geoff
NatureQuack, My feeling is that the underlying foam is part of the problem with the seat feeling hard. As I have speculated other places I think part of the problem is the vertical glue seams around the white foam. I think when someones weight is spread across all four of the glue seams it suppresses the foam’s ability to give. The white foam is pretty close in density to the green foam I used. When I got the seat apart I was impressed with how sophisticated the padding was (I believe there is three types of foam). I wish the design worked better for me but I had fun doing doing the mod.
I also think a person weight has something to do with it since the top foam is pretty squishy. A heavier person is going to pack that foam more than a lighter person.
I too have thought about going all the way down to the pan or maybe leaving just a 1/4" and then build the seat up with two layers of one inch foam. But for now I’m satisfied with the results.
I didn’t order from them since they don’t specify what the density is. I’m sure a phone call could have cleared it up.
Here is an informative site about types of foam. What I used is high density memory foam (goes by the trade name Confor foam). I had no idea what was what in foam so I just kind of eeneie meenie miney moed it.
The crazy thing is… a couple of people on this forum have used REALLY stiff and hard seats. I like my 2010 KH street seat for my 36-er. It’s much more firm compared to the freeride. There was a post where someone loved the Naomi saddle.
I guess it all comes down to how the seat fits your body and not as much about the foam for some people.
I’m fine with a hard seat, if it distributes my weight evenly. the seats with lots of foam are good because they try to evenly disburse a wide range of people’s weights, but the freeride fusion might have taken a step backwards from that, with more pressure to certain areas for people not in the core weight range.
