winternet and spam

General
1

> Since I’ve signed on to the unicycle email list, the amount of SPAM I receive
> has probably doubled. Has anyone else experienced this and

I seem to mostly get a bunch during the weekend. Since I also get spam from
other sources, it’s hard to tell where much of it comes from.

> is there a way to address this problem?

I address it with my delete button. I know that’s not a very elegant solution,
but it leaves all the power in my hands (finger), and gives me the satisfaction
of partially cleaning out my inbox. It’s exactly the same thing I do when I
bring in the mail. If you subscribe to any magazines, you probably know what I
mean by that.

My policy on unsolicited email advertising:

  1. If it’s not addressed to me, or to a list I’m subscribed to, delete
    without reading.
  2. If it’s not from anybody, or is obviously from an address that is bogus or
    promotional, delete without reading.
  3. If for any other reason I can detect it’s spam, delete without reading.
  4. In case I get tempted to read about a get-rich-quick or advertise-my-site
    scheme, refer to numbers 1-3.
  5. If it’s cycling, circus, or otherwise somewhat on topic, even if it’s still
    spam, I don’t count it as such and I’m allowed to read it.
  6. Most importantly of all, never respond with a “remove” message, and
    never-ever buy any product or service that I’ve found out about as a result
    of spam. No positive feedback to spam must be received by the spammer! the
    same applies to telephone solicitations and 99% of the solicitors that come
    to my door (I get a lot!).

Hope this is useful. If you enjoyed this list, ask me for my “The Five Don’ts of
California Home Buying”.

Stay on top,

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com

2

Hi,

Since I’ve signed on to the unicycle email list, the amount of SPAM I receive
has probably doubled. Has anyone else experienced this and is there a way to
address this problem?

-Kris Holm.

Kris Holm, B.Sc. Geologist, Forestry Group, EBA Engineering Consultants Ltd.
Suite 550, Sun Life Plaza, 1100 Melville Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6E 4A6
Tel:(604) 685-0275 Fax:(604) 684-6241 Email: kholm@eba.ca

3

Re: winternet and spam

Kris Holm <kholm@eba.ca> writes:

> Since I’ve signed on to the unicycle email list, the amount of SPAM I receive
> has probably doubled. Has anyone else experienced this and is there a way to
> address this problem?

In the past three months, 58 spam messages were sent directly to the list, so
none of us have had to miss out.

There’s some useful info on spam fighting at http://www.nags.org/

> could the listserve be set up to refuse distribution of anything that didn’t
> include a certain word, such as “unicycling” (plus whatever else), in the
> subject line?

Yes, but it would undoubtedly cause problems with legitimate messages. You could
set your own mail reader to do the same thing for yourself, but I don’t
recommend it. In the last three months, “uni” appeared in the subject or body of
only 330 of the 396 non-spam messages, so you’d end up missing a bit. (And it
also appeared in half the spam.)

There may be a good way to automatically sift out the spam, but it’s not as
simple as that.

4

Re: winternet and spam

I think the best way to get rid of the majority of the spam would be to have a
filter applied to all the mail going through the list. This filter would bounce
anything that doesn’t contain “unicycling@winternet.com” in the To: or CC: field
of the headers back to the sender.

I looked at my trash folder, which is where everything goes when I hit the
delete key, and counted all the messages that went through the server
icicle.winternet.com (the uni mailing list server). Of those, 90% didn’t have
“unicycling@winternet.com” in the To: or CC: field. So that 90% would be
eliminated with the filter.

Having this filter will eliminate most of the spam going through this list, but
I am not sure how it will work for spam posted to the newsgroup (vs. the list).

    ___________

___ // / / / / ========================================== / _ '/ / / '_ /
Kevin Gilbertson - mailto:mail@gilby.com _ ///,/ / Unicycling T-shirts
at http://www.gilby.com/ // /______/ ICQ: 12611076 AIM: IamGilby _/

5

RE: winternet and spam

Probably one reason for the increase in spam is the cross-posting to the
newsgroup. Spammers are notorious for trolling newsgroups to find email
addresses, so if you post to the list, you’ll likely get added to more
unscrupulous people’s mailing lists. I’ve found that after I post to “big”
audience newsgroups (like the bicycling marketplace one) I end up getting tons
of spam. So I guess it’s just a hazard of being on the net … John’s rules for
deleting spam are good, and if you have a sophisticated email program you can
probably teach it to filter out a lot of spam (I have a sophisticated email
program, but am unfortunately a rather unsophisticated user … my delete key
gets lots of work). Peter

Peter Kittle Assistant Professor Department of English CSU, Chico
530/898-5305 pkittle@csuchico.edu http://www.csuchico.edu/~pdkittle

> ----------
> From: Kris Holm Reply To: Kris Holm Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 1999 2:26 AM
> To: unicycling@winternet.com Subject: winternet and spam
>
> Hi,
>
> Since I’ve signed on to the unicycle email list, the amount of SPAM I receive
> has probably doubled. Has anyone else experienced this and is there a way to
> address this problem?
>
> -Kris Holm.
> _______________________________________________________
>
> Kris Holm, B.Sc. Geologist, Forestry Group, EBA Engineering Consultants Ltd.
> Suite 550, Sun Life Plaza, 1100 Melville Street, Vancouver, B.C. V6E 4A6
> Tel604) 685-0275 Fax604) 684-6241 Email: kholm@eba.ca
>

6

RE: winternet and spam

jmichaels wrote:
> OK, I’ll bite…what are The Five Don’ts of California Home Buying?

Since he asked, I’m going to make everyone read it!

JOHN’S FIVE “DON’Ts” OF CALIFORNIA HOME BUYING
a.k.a. Things not to do when buying a home in California

  1. Don’t buy a house on a fault line.
  2. Don’t buy a house on the edge of a cliff.
  3. Don’t buy a hose at the bottom of the cliff either.
  4. Don’t buy a house on a flood plain low-lying area, or immediately downstream
    from a large dam.
  5. Don’t buy a house surrounded by acres of dry, crispy brush.

Everybody knows the reasons why, right? But we see those houses getting nailed
all the time! Contrary to what it may look like, that still leaves thousands of
square miles where you can safely buy a home (if you can afford
it) and keep it until it wears out. Sure, your view might not be quite as nice,
but your house will tend to stay in one place while you watch the disasters
on TV with a grin…

Hey jmichaels, you’re not from Long Island, are you?

Stay on top,

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com

7

Re: winternet and spam

Some years ago we discussed the same topic. Then I made a suggestion that
couldn’t be implemented due to technical restrictions resp. the realization
would have been too much work. Maybe the technic has improved since then. So
here it is again:

Everyone who wants to post to this newsgroup has to add a subject line like
“Uni: whatever”. Any posting with a subject line not starting with the phrase
“Uni:” will be deleted automatically. So any spammers who don’t know this rule
will have no chance bothering us.

Is this a thing our newsgroup/mailing list server can handle?

Wolfgang

8

Re: winternet and spam

Michael wrote:
>However There are a few flaws:
> 1) Everyone who posts directly to the NG would have to add the "UNI: tag to
> the subject line themselves (may be possible in some newsreaders to
> automate this)

Yes, that’s true. I think this takes about 2 extra seconds per message.

> 2) Newcomers to the group will not know this rule, and so would be ignored.

When subscribing to the mailing list, everyone gets a message with several rules
like neticette and so one. We could add this rule. Posters to the newsgroup have
not to subscribe. So they may not know the “Uni:” rule. In this case we could
send a generated answer explaining the rule. Then the newby has the chance to
post his message again.

> 3) Co-ordinating the switch. How many hundreds of people read this group?
> (Including lurkers?) I do not really think everyone would switch over to
> using the suggested tag quickly enough for it to catch on and be a viable
> option.

Changing the tag is not necessary. Spammers are not readers of the newsgroup who
decide to post some advertising off topic. Spammers collect email addresses
whereever they can get them, preferred automatically. They set up fire walls to
avoid getting flame letters in response to their spams. So they don’t know of
the rule. Even if they know, they wouldn’t bother doing the extra work needed
for spamming this special news group (among maybe 1000 others they spam at the
same time). They probably don’t receive the generated answer explaining the
rule. And if they get it, they won’t read it. Because if they did, they would
have to read thousands of letters people write for blaming them for spamming.

Of course, this method may not filter any spam mails, but probably most of them.

Wolfgang

9

RE: winternet and spam

We really need to do something. Our SPAM is getting way out of hand.

I think if we require a header, we will lose a lot of first time users. This is
a very important audience.

If we could put together a list of key words (Uni, Muni, Unicycle, …) and
filter on those I think it would go a long way. The ones that don’t pass the
filter should go somewhere where someone could look to see if they are legit,
before forwarding to the news group.

The way it is now, I could never recommend that anyone especially kids get on
our list. The pornographic trash really makes us look bad.

10

RE: winternet and spam

A “regular poster” responds:

> : Yes, that’s true. I think this takes about 2 extra seconds per message.
>
> No. It’ll take a dozen posts where you hit send and then think "Wait a minute,
> wasn’t I supposed to stick “UNI:” in the subject field?" followed

I have to agree with Michael. I make mistakes like that all the time, even
without having to remember to add something to the subject line…

A lot of the people reading our ng are extreme newbies, some sending their very
first newsgroup or email posts. Some of these people are the ones that need
unicycle help the most, so we shouldn’t lose them or leave them out. Because it
is rare to use such restrictions on other ng’s, we should avoid it as well.

Do we get more spam than other newsgroups? Or do all the newsgroups get about
the same garbage? Spam is bad, but it’s a fact of life just like junk snail
mail, cold calls from telephone solicitors, Tripod and Geocities popup
windows, and commercials at the movie theater. The idea of filtering out spam
is good, but if it requires a special effort when posting, it’s not a good
idea for this group.

If somebody would like to hand-filter the posts, knocking out the garbage, I
would be in favor of that. But I realize it would also probably mean a delay in
service, and a hassle for the person doing it. (Plus, anyone interested in doing
work of this type could be of more use to the IUF by handling memberships,
allowing us to launch our newsletter!)

More usefully, I think we should send out regular posts explaining the newsgroup
policies (or with an URL pointing to them), and an explanation that whatever
spam the user comes across cannot be helped (and is not from us!). These regular
messages (once a week?) could also explain the process of signing up for the
email version of the ng. It would be nice, because that alone should cut down on
all the “unsubscribe” messages we read there…

What do others think?

Stay on top,

John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone http://www.unicycling.com

11

RE: winternet and spam

The list of Don’t buy in CA sounds Like it would work for Washington also
Barb Kowalski

12

Re: winternet and spam

Creeping stealthily through the corridors of rec.sport.unicycling, I overheard
Wolfgang Stroessner say:

: Everyone who wants to post to this newsgroup has to add a subject line like
: “Uni: whatever”. Any posting with a subject line not starting with the phrase
: “Uni:” will be deleted automatically. So any spammers who don’t know this rule
: will have no chance bothering us.

: Is this a thing our newsgroup/mailing list server can handle?

Hmm.

Off the top of my head, it would be possible to alter a news/mail gateway to
modify the subject line of a post passing through it. No real technical
difficulty with that bit.

As for filtering, it is possible to automatically killfile or delete messages
based upon the occurance or lack of occurance of a specific pattern in a given
header field (IE to filter out posts with no “UNI:” in the header field). Again,
no real technical difficulty there.

However There are a few flaws:

  1. Everyone who posts directly to the NG would have to add the “UNI:” tag to
    the subject line themselves (may be possible in some newsreaders to
    automate this)
  2. Newcomers to the group will not know this rule, and so would be ignored.
  3. Co-ordinating the switch. How many hundreds of people read this group?
    (Including lurkers?) I do not really think everyone would switch over to
    using the suggested tag quickly enough for it to catch on and be a
    viable option.

IMHO, those 3 points (particularly point 2) are enough to really deny this tag
taking off. Yes, technically possible. However, infeasible to get everyone on
the group to adopt it.

–
Michael “If cats had an opposable thumb and could hold a screwdriver, we’d all
be doomed.” JMS.

13

Re: winternet and spam

Creeping stealthily through the corridors of rec.sport.unicycling, I overheard
Wolfgang Stroessner say:

: Michael wrote:
:>However There are a few flaws:
:> 1) Everyone who posts directly to the NG would have to add the "UNI: tag to
:> the subject line themselves (may be possible in some newsreaders to
:> automate this)

: Yes, that’s true. I think this takes about 2 extra seconds per message.

No. It’ll take a dozen posts where you hit send and then think “Wait a
minute, wasn’t I supposed to stick “UNI:” in the subject field?” followed by
another dozen posts where you have nearly finished typing before remembering,
at which point you’d have to scroll all the way back up and add “UNI:” before
sending the post.

Only once you were well-used to the system would it take 2 seconds to stick
“UNI:” in as soon as you start a post. For irregular posters (such as myself)
this is not really likely to happen. For regular posters (John Foss, Sarah
Miller etc) would the additional 2 seconds really save time when the
occasional spam from this group is encountered? Lesse, 2 seconds over lots of
posts, as opposed to hitting delete or tab when confronted by a spam message?

:> 2) Newcomers to the group will not know this rule, and so would be ignored.

: When subscribing to the mailing list, everyone gets a message with several
: rules like neticette and so one. We could add this rule. Posters to the
: newsgroup have not to subscribe. So they may not know the “Uni:” rule. In this
: case we could send a generated answer explaining the rule. Then the newby has
: the chance to post his message again.

Newbie, however, thinks “Huh? What are they on about? Of course it is UNI
related, I wouldn’t be sending it to this list if it wasn’t UNI related!” and
wanders off…

:> 3) Co-ordinating the switch. How many hundreds of people read this group?
:> (Including lurkers?) I do not really think everyone would switch over to
:> using the suggested tag quickly enough for it to catch on and be a
:> viable option.

: Changing the tag is not necessary.

No, however introducing it would be. It was this initial switch I was
referring to.

: Spammers are not readers of the newsgroup who decide to post some advertising
: off topic. Spammers collect email addresses whereever they can get them,
: preferred automatically.

So that’s what they do… I had wondered…

: They set up fire walls to avoid getting flame letters

Well, a fire wall is something slightly different, but I won’t get into a
technical discussion here… :wink:

Sarcasm aside, the only NGS I have seen additional tags in subject lines work
effectively were ones like a.f.pratchett and uk.media.tv.sf.babylon5 were
subject line tags were used to indicate that the material contained might not
interest the reader. Adding a tag solely to chop out spam would work IF
every user of the mailing list/NG obeyed the rule and every newbie learnt this
rule quickly and effectively.

Now, maybe the first condition would work. You are still going to have a large
transitional period whilst everyone gets used to the new rule.

With the amount of blunders people new to groups make (based on personal
experience, both of my own such mistakes and others I have observed) such a rule
is going to puzzle them and, probably, be ignored.

You asked for comments, Wolfgang, and I gave 'em! :slight_smile:

–
Michael “If cats had an opposable thumb and could hold a screwdriver, we’d all
be doomed.” JMS.

14

Re: winternet and spam

I didn’t think we got that much spam stuff in here anyway.

Think we might be going over the top a bit.

Mark

–
Remove “.nospam” from email address to reply

Wolfgang Stroessner <wolfgang.stroessner@sap-ag.de> wrote in article
<199903090858.JAA28686@hs2114.wdf.sap-ag.de>…
> Some years ago we discussed the same topic. Then I made a suggestion that
> couldn’t be implemented due to technical restrictions resp. the realization
> would have been too much work. Maybe the technic has improved since then. So
> here it is again:
>
> Everyone who wants to post to this newsgroup has to add a subject line like
> “Uni: whatever”. Any posting with a subject line not starting with the phrase
> “Uni:” will be deleted automatically. So any spammers who don’t know this rule
> will have no chance bothering us.
>
> Is this a thing our newsgroup/mailing list server can handle?
>
> Wolfgang

15

Re: winternet and spam

Wolfgang Stroessner wrote
> Some years ago we discussed the same topic. Then I made a suggestion that
> couldn’t be implemented due to technical restrictions resp. (snip) Everyone
> who wants to post to this newsgroup has to add a subject line like "Uni:
> whatever".

I subsribe to the hpv email list (human-powered vehicals) and the listserver for
that forum automatically adds [hpv] to the subject line. I think this is for
spam control, as I’ve never seen any spam on that list.

I sent a note to the list-manager asking for info.

PS: I posted this message earlier this morning and it didn’t appear, so I’m
posting it again…sorry it you get it twice

-Rick Bissell

16

Re: winternet and spam

Dont do it… I like thinking up odd subject lines. Any way whats wrong with
skipping obvious spam it’s not like these people are subtle, any thing that
claims I can make $$$ etc I just mark as read and ignore. In comparision to some
other NGs r.s.uni gets only lightly spamed. sarah