Why you can't boycott BP

A popular idea in my town now. Some folk seem to feel as if not going into a BP station, just don’t buy that BP gas, might work in some way to express something. The thing is, all gas is the same.

Oil to the refinery comes in at todays “spot price”. In the Gulf Futures Exchange
, a building in New Orleans, LA. , where there is 2 special rooms. “Future contracts”, and “delivered today or your money”, more commonly know as the “spot price room.”

In the “futures room”, there is a low narrow desk that separates buyers from sellers. They negotiate a legal promise to deliver on one side, and receive on the other, a lot of crude oil. There are very bad financial $ penalties for failure to deliver the amount of oil, at agreed $ /barrel, on time, at a date in the future, specified in contract . It’s also very bad if your refinery can’t receive it. This is why the “future room” exists. If my refinery must buy
500,000 barrels next week, but we don’t want it, then I would want to sell the “legal commitment to pay x$/barrel for delivery”, a binding contract to accept delivery on that day at X$ barrel, I will want to sell it. Maybe the refinery down the bay needs oil, maybe they don’t. But I must sell and the “futures contract of delivery of oil at x/$ buyers”,across the other side of the desk , on the buyers side of the room, will bid on it. I might have to pay them to take it. How do you sell an obligation to buy 100 million barrels at a 150 $ /barrel when the spot price is 100 $ /barrel? Simple, have my agent in the future exchange room offer to pay the other agent 152 million $ to buy the “future contract” . They will take it or leave it. Maybe we must bid more. Futures trading is all about swapping at an agreed price. No lawyers needed, only deeply bonded fat cat’s agents allowed in the rooms.

But only for so long, deals must be made, the spot price , as well as the futures price, is gone over daily. In those 2 rooms. The contracts are legally binding and the prices reported daily publicly.

The day a 200 Million $ load of an oil tanker is delivered is defined as, it hits the dock, off loads the product, serious job to get the time right. Off loaded? then $ goes into the account of the “spot price contract holder” Cash on the barrel as soon as 200 million $ of product has been sold.

Things change at sea, and the value of the oil in a huge tanker of oil as it sails to somewhere is usually the most important economic variable. Thus the existence of the “spot market room”.

The “spot market room”, is in a different room, but is in the same building as the “futures trading in the oil gulf”, room. It also has the same dividing desk, sellers on one side, buyers on the other . At this point the refinery is committed to accept the tanker. The tanker is close, yet “spot oil buyers” still bid on the oil in the tankers, in the spot room. In the “spot room”, it’s really all about agents bidding against each other to fulfill their contractual obligations. The refinery owner, and the tanker owner are rolling like fine oiled machines. Huge investment in infrastructure paying off . Not a system designed by hill billys or movie stars. Oil business that is.
The buy guys in the “spot room”, are already told what to bid, sorta. At some point, someone at the seller side must commit to a spot sale. Then you, as an agent, have done your job. The oil tanker hits the dock, and off loads. As soon as it’s done offing it’s legal obligation of oil, "cash on the barrel, maybe 200 million $ ", will be paid to some other Co., usually , only rarely to the owner of the “futures contract to delver oil”. Most likely to the “spot contract holder”.

“Oil future contracts”, are made only between big players in the oil biz, and only in a certain a area. There is a different building , set up much the same, in the other oil theaters of oil production, to swap futures contracts in other areas of the world. There is another one in New York, but you can’t trade futures between the New Orleans building and the New York one. Each has it’s own territory, no overlap.

Oh, and in case you have read this far and remember my header… You can’t Boycott BP because all the oil is the same. The refineries buy crude from anyone who has it at the best price they can get, using a hedged crystal ball, the “futures system”.

BP is, and will continue to be a major source of crude to USA refineries. When the oil, from Mobil, or Exxon,BP, any name with oil, is paid for. All the refined gasoline then runs in pipelines , to local truck stations all fed, all the companies, from one big line, running into that region. Diesel, gasoline, of all brands, comes up to northern states distribution centers in the same pipe from the same refineries.
At this point 98% of the profits BP was due has been paid to BP.

The retail sales of gasoline and snacks is very different from BP’s core money maker (production). Most of the stations with a BP sign are locally owned. The gas that they sell came up the same pipe Exxon and Mobile used. All the gas comes up a consortium transport pipe from the refineries to a local Tanker truck depot. Then a tanker truck moves it the last few miles to your gas station. Then it is advertised as Exxon, Mobil , BP, but it is the same gas.

It is all the same stuff. The “high test” stuff, is added right at the tanker semi. Before that, it’s all the same gas, coming up the same pipe. The difference in octane and brands is added at the semi truck moving the gas locally.

BP is a source of crude supplier. To boycott them, you must stop buying petroleum products. All the oil is sold on a common exchange. They didn’t make 6 billion $ last quarter selling donuts and beer.

I’ll grab the popcorn for this one.

and i’ll need to get drunk before i read this.

Check.

Read this, very interesting. I don’t want to study economics, because the more you study it, the more you start to understand how the modern world works and how deeply rotten it is. You can’t boycott BP. So, what can you do? No idea:(

Send a nice greeting card to Sean.
Order a cake and send it to maestro8.
Go out and ride.
Watch reruns of Dead, Like Me.
Walk the dog.
Cook and eat the dog.
Read every one of JC’s (the main man, not the forum) posts.
The list goes on…

You just contradicted yourself. You can boycott BP by not buying petroleum products. That is a very hard boycott to achieve but it is possible. It seems obvious to me that for a long time we have all known that oil is dirty and dangerous and in the hands of greedy, power-mad, profit motivated, uncaring people who try to convince everyone they are doing the best they can. A shift towards more sustainable renewable methods of living makes a lot of sense and things like BP’s big spill remind us of what we already knew. It is just a matter of taking the profit away from oil giants (using legislation) and putting it towards cleaner energy- easier said than done with the tenacious clutching at straws that the oil companies do.

Instead of waiting for another big spill to demand money for clean up- we need to be more pro-active and demand money from oil companies for future disasters. That money can be used to phase out oil-guzzling cars and trucks and prevent the slow poison that continuously burning oil globally produces. Oil companies do not deserve the financial rewards that we give them! They don’t own the earth’s blood to begin with so it is time to stop paying them to steal it.

Boycott oil in general as much as possible! Lead by example and ride a bike or unicycle rather than driving a car…

Buy BP stock LOL, I would if I had some money

BP has north of 300 billion dollars of assets. The BP share price has fallen so far, I could buy control of the company for 200 billion $, then sell off the assets. Fastest way to make 100 billion $ I can think of. Anyone want to loan me 1/4 of a trillion dollars ? Seriously, what could go wrong? Well, maybe BP would start selling assets, and buying it’s own stock. The price would rise and the sweet deal would become more bitter. Especially if you can’t buy the half of all shares you need to take control.

If it was as easy as walking into the stock exchange and buying 200 billion dollars of BP stock at the present market price, Warren Buffet would have done it by now. He has done it many times, with smaller corporations. But BP is already selling assets. They are getting ready for him. If the fight comes, don’t be surprised if the share price of BP stock rises higher than it was before the rig sank. All the more reason to buy BP stock now. The best time to help the champ up, is when he’s down. The ignorant public has lost faith in him, then back on his feet again, everyone will want to bet on him. BP is down now, but it’s stock price will soon rise dramatically.

I have a history of good stock picks. Here we have a company that’s stock has lost half it’s market value, and stopped paying dividends. Fools conclude it has lost half it’s value. But it still has all it’s assets, minus one well out of several thousand. It is still earning 25 billion dollars/yr. If oil prices go back to 150 $/barrel, BP will pull in north of 50 billion $/yr. The days of fat dividends will be back.

The real reason BP agreed to put 20 billion $ in escrow (basically kissing it goodbye ) , is to protect it’s assets in deep water fields. There is 5-10 billion dollars of oil in the field where the rig sank. BP owns others like it. Were public perception of the cost of deep water drilling to go sour, that could cost BP, as well as Exxon, Mobil etc. , 100’s of billions in future earnings.

The one disaster that BP really doesn’t want is for the pubic perception to change so sharply, that laws are passed to take away these assets.

Note how BP shares rallied after the 20 billion $ escrow was announced. Investors were worried BP would fight tooth and nail all costs, like Exxon did after the Valdez spill, bumming pubic opinion. 20 billion is enough to pay 200,000 people 100,000 $ each. Vote buying is the smart thing to do in this case. It was impossible to ban oil tankers, after Valdez, the country was so dependent on them that banning tankers was unthinkable. Not so with deep water drilling, BP will indeed pay serious $ to protect it’s good will with the public in this case, to protect it’s deep water assets.

The rig sinking will cost BP maybe 50 billion $, I will bet less. If the well is plugged in August, the FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt), about BP’s survival will vanish, and the share price will climb 50 % or better. Great opportunity for the small investor.

Yay! Lets change perception and pass laws. That is what needs to be done!

NO! Do not invest in BP or other oil companies. Just because other people do it does not make it right. Just because money can be made does not mean it should be made. Oil is the blood of the earth and if you are happy having the blood on your hands and spending blood money then invest in BP. Humans are suffering a mass delusion that we rely on oil.

Legislation should be passed demanding that oil companies return the oil to the rightful place under the earth. Maybe we could start a new business harvesting blood from Oil executives- not listening to their screams of resistance as we poke the needle in.

Boycotting oil will only be truly possible when alternative energy sources are more readily available to everyone- and this will never happen while we allow Oil companies decide which energy is best. Make oil illegal! Keep rising the prices of oil until nobody can afford it, and keep taxing the oil companies until they can’t afford their own product, and they can’t make profit to pay shareholders.

Only IPO shares count morally

Long ago, BP issued some shares. When a company does this for the first time, it is called an IPO (initial public offering), known as “going public”.
The person who bought the first issue was indeed putting $ into BP Inc.'s pocket.

The person who next buys this share is in no way a supporter of BP. They are a tick, a leach, know in the biz, as liabilities. If you buy a share of BP stock now, no money goes to BP, it goes to the former owner of the share. Could be a sick old lady with cancer. If so, you will never meet her, now a days, you might not even meet the stock broker. But anyway, my point is, BP is not issuing stock now. They haven’t in a long time. All owning BP stock now means is that when they turn a profit, you get a share, for every share you own. Buying BP stock now doesn’t give BP any money.

I would compare it to standing next to you at a boxing ring. You have a slip from a bookie, you bet 100 $ Rocky wins, and you get 150$. But now Rocky is on his knees. You turned to me and say, " I’ll sell you this slip for 50 $". I accept. Having seen his early movies, I could see he was just scanning the crowd, looking for Adrian, not as dazed as it appeared to some. After the fight, I go to the bookie and collect my 150 $. The champ never sees a cent of this action. Nor would BP if you were to buy it’s stock today.

Over the last couple of years I invested in a fund (as part of my IRA account from a previous job) that was petroleum-heavy. Figured if those oil companies are doing so ganbusters, why not try to benefit? Hard to tell for sure, since it’s a mix of mutual funds, but it seems to have worked. :slight_smile:

Sorry Rowan, but I don’t feel guilty about it at all. I’m with you on the general need to get away from oil, but it just isn’t going to happen very quickly. Not until oil becomes too expensive, or alternates become cheap enough, will the balance really start to shift. But by then, companies like BP will be heavily invested in the newer forms of energy (they’ve been working on this for many years)!

I can’t wait until the day I get to buy a car that doesn’t use any oil company products. Yes, they are available today, but few are viable as car replacements, and most are still pretty expensive…

Thanks for illuminating this issue, FTL. There are at least two sides to every story, and you’re presenting a side that hasn’t seen much attention.

It seems the only side being presented is that which generates the most outrage… and as Rowan illustrates, the outrage is in full bloom. Unfortunately, the only things produced by outrage are impossible suggestions and more outrage.

End our dependence on oil by riding bicycles? Right! Just as soon as the shipping companies figure out how to deliver stock to grocery stores via rickshaw, we’re set! Hah!

It seems obvious to me that for a long time we have all known that that person is greedy, power-mad, profit motivated and uncaring! :stuck_out_tongue:

Not convinced by buying locally? Do more research. It is not actually as funny as you think- it makes sense! People did not always rely on products from China to survive. Obesity will end when rickshaw groceries is the only option.

Buying locally is awesome. I recommend doing it as much as possible. There are things that cannot be purchased locally. (Electronics for example). Even for things that ARE purchased locally, there’s still transportation involved, and energy that is needed in the manufacturing/harvesting process.

Get people to give up their cars? Sure! …but where’s the incentive? “Doing what’s best for the environment” just isn’t going to work on the masses. Heck, even people who try to be environmentally sensitive still consume too much and rely too much on oil.

Oil will cease to be our primary source of energy only when it ceases to be the cheapest and most available source.

So really, do your part, and burn as much of it as you can. Only when its gone will it go away.

Hmm, if only there were some kind of community setting where we the masses could gather and talk about the importance of morality and work together to combat our willful defiance of what we think is right…

You can’t boycott BP because they’re giving the crude oil away to anyone who want to come around and pick it up.

I was involved in the Transition Town Ting in Brighton.

See if your town has a TT movement, if not, start one.

Um, dunno how you gleaned that from my post… that wasn’t my point.

Have you seen the size of commercial farms? We’ve got tons of 'em here in California. Semi-trucks full to the top of tomatoes, garlic, onions, lettuce, etc. come and go from those farms.

I don’t see how else you’d transport that much produce… especially considering many farms are 1-2 hours driving from urban areas.

The future of big farms, as oil becomes real expensive

Diesel farm equipment today can run real well on any oil, corn oil, olive oil, will all run through a modern diesel engine producing full power.

The problem is that diesel is cheaper than food oils, and also that fuel filters for diesel engines are a pricey necessity, even with clean pump diesel.

When I bought a new 4108 diesel Perkins for my boat, back in '88, an old salt, Pat, told me only 3 things were important when you are running a diesel. Clean fuel, clean fuel, and clean fuel.

Very prophetic advice. My only problems with that engine in the 10 years I owned it was from clogged fuel filters. I wasn’t so stupid as to eliminate the filters, as I knew a clogged injector system would cost 1500 $ to fix.

It is possible to run a diesel on almost any oil, of almost any type. Filters will be of the utmost importance. In the future, farm tractors might be run on a mix of 80% corn oil, and 20 % diesel oil. Running on pure food oil, without the detergents in the diesel, will gum up your fuel injection system.

The fuel injection systems in diesel engines are expensive, perhaps 1/3 the cost of the engine, no simple carburetor swap here.

But for sure, at some point in the future, the combines will harvest corn powered mostly with corn oil. No rick shaws. The diesel is here to stay.

Don’t say that, Rowan’s gonna cry himself to sleep tonight!

This suggestion raises the question of economy… will a combine harvesting corn for fuel “burn” more or less corn oil than it can harvest?

Plan B: trained monkeys harvesting corn. They definitely won’t eat more than they harvest.