I was in class at Rockford College this afternoon when the word came down about the shootings at Northern Illinois University, my alma mater and short distance down the road in DeKalb.
As hard as I try, I can’t fathom the mindset that says I am so depressed or desperate or whatever that I need to take out as many lives as possible before I take my own. Every shooting, the fourth in a week in the U.S., is a tragedy. Have we lost all value of life or have we made it so cheap that it means nothing to take it away?
I have friends involved in the mess. This one hit close to home for me.
I had to let an ambulance to pass on my way home from work at 3:00pm
Didn’t find out what was up until I read about it on another forum, which quickly degenerated into a 2nd amendment debate.
Kind of eerie seeing all the hovering helicopters most of the evening. My wife was at work across the street from Kishwaukee Hospital helipad, simultaneously listening to radio news and medi-vac traffic - gave her the impression of working in a M.A.S.H. unit. My niece was in class in a next door building at the time.
Hope your friends are all safe, and dman1234 too. He’s an engineering student at NIU
It amazes me how often these things seem to happen anymore. Not that I have been around to long at the young age of 15, but still. My condolences to those involved.
We all wonder what the sociology and psychology is behind such a shooting. Doing something like that is beyond comprehension for the vast majority of people, but then there are the few that either snap or are driven towards such action.
There is the pop-psychology analysis that blames it on video games and/or the glorification of violence in movies (Rambo?) and the availability and glorification of guns. I don’t buy into that thinking that those things must therefore be banned or regulated. That kind of pop-psychology analysis is too simplistic and can be politically motivated.
University can be stressful and things happen to you and for you in the system that are beyond your control. Maybe he felt he was unfairly treated or screwed over? But how do you go from that to wanting to shoot up a lecture and then take your own life?
Yes, it is a tragedy that someone can be so mixed up. I feel sorry for all that had family involved in the massacre. Anyone know any background on the shooter?
It seems that all/most of these shootings happen in the US. I think that US culture is rotten to the core. People in the US seem much more aggressive and not open to strange and new things than other countries.
Someone made a documentary asking this same question a few years ago, he even won an oscar for it, but people tried to pass it off as political propaganda because of his later films that were more politically minded.
I believe it’s happened in Germany once or twice, never in Britain. There was the Dunblaine tragedy when i was a child, an armed man with a history of mental difficulties attacked a nursery with various armaments. It causes the outlawing of handguns in this country, and it hasn’t happened since.
All you have to do is hop in your car and drive down the road – you will get a great view of how hostile and violent people really are. People will literally put your life in grave danger for absolutely no reason. Not just a few people… most! They use the roads as a racetrack and God help you if you get in their way: they will harass you, threaten you, and endanger your life. This is “normal” behavior where I live. Normal! Is there any wonder why so many people die in car accidents? Life is cheap. Dirt cheap. Civility is gone. Human decency is gone. You may think you know some nice people, but watch how they drive. Then you’ll know what they’re made of deep down. Courteous, friendly, gentle, and understanding? Unlikely. Try rude, violent, self-centered, and aggressive.
Not to equate pervasive aggressive driving with this tragic event, but there has to be a connection. People are out of control. And not just a little. Think I’m exaggerating? Try driving the speed limit for one week and see how many people you actually enrage. People are out of control. Something is terribly wrong with this society. Senseless killing comes in many forms and the death toll is high – from violent crime, shooting sprees, deadly driving, US imperialism, and corporate greed (think pharmaceutical industry, for one).
Wow, that’s a real downer of a post. I’m not sure if I should post it.
Micheal Moore :“bowling for columbine”. Really interesting documentary.
Though I agree with most of Moore’s opinion, I wouldn’t call him a journalist, mostly because of the “spectacular” ways he uses to make some points…
…But he sure makes some.
We didn’t even hear the news about 4 shootings in a week around there. My thoughts go to the victims, their families and every U.S people: I think I would be shocked/devasted if it happened in my country:(
Robert Sheckley predicted these mass shootings years ago. He called the people who went on a suicidal shooting spree berserkers. You can read about it in Immortality Inc. - a great book.
pop-psychology of my own: if people get accustomed to the fact that killing is just a small event (as seen in video games and films) then no wonder that real killing is seen as a project of nearly no consequence.
mind you: I am not advocating films or games without violence or deaths. But I am annoyed by certain casual attitudes towards death.
Having witnessed some real violence I just can’t stand some video games or some films: I may be a sissy but I am obliged to give up.
Now psychologists are arguing over the influence of attitudes towards death as influencing attitudes towards violent behaviour (that is it does not promote violence “as is” but minimize the projected impact of violence that becomes nearly a respectable behaviour that you can justify even for unimportant reasons).
another point: people turning berserk exist everywhere: some cultures (or sub cultures) are more prone to it because they grow a cultural justification for it (“berserk” is nordic ; “amok” is austronesian : those are linked to extreme psychological disorder but more normal people could loose contact with the real world to the point where death is no longer a terrible thing -I suspect that once you are accustomed to this notion of futility of death it is easier to act).
Just a thought:
Imagine you’re a shy teenager, persecuted by most people at school, mentaly “weak”. Imagine you really suffer from this and going to school becomes a torture because of “the others”…
Imagine one day you can’t bear this situation anymore and get “mad”.
Imagine you know your father owns a handgun and already showed it to you (or worst: already shot with you).
What if the situation is exactly the same but you don’t have “easy” acces to handgun… Do you think the bodycount would be so high?
reading the Amok article on wikipedia : “Amok is often described as a culture-bound (or culture-specific) syndrome, which is a psychological condition whose manifestation is strongly shaped by cultural factors.”
so I suspect that the intense emotion provoked by those events will not prevent other events of that sort … now the question is how to gradually destroy those cultural behaviours … any comment?
(remember: some teens thought of the Columbine perpetrators as heroes! as long as victims will be classified as “innocent passers-by” , as long as identification is more towards perpetrators than victims … we are in trouble)
US should ban firearms. Make it harder for the local loony to have one. With all the money that you sink into defending yourselves, you could pay for therapy for these sad and angry people in need.
I too drive mostly at the speed limit. I know how angry people get.
If 3 people in the classroom would have had a weapon and the skill to use it the carnage would have been much less. The security did the best they could. two personel were there within 30 seconds of the shooting and eight were present at about two minutes after the first shot.
If 1 out of every 20 people carried a weapon people would think twice about going into a building and shooting numerous people. If the Us bans firearms the only the criminals will have guns; the law abiding citizens will be left helpless with no way of protecting themselves. this case demonstrates that even if the police respond exactly the way they should people can still get killed. If someone really wants a gun its not that hard to get
Guns don’t kill people, people kill people
If the government cannot protect the people, we, the people, must learn to protect ourselves.
First I have to apologize: I think I’m guilty for the way this thread goes on the many times debated question of gun control. Sorry for that…
But I think you’re wrong XCcrev:
those maniacs just want fame and fun before they die. They know they’ll die as soon as they start shooting. The more people armed, the most exciting is the challenge: “How many enemies will I kill before I get shot”. They’d be in a real video game!
The slaughter would be quite the same, the paranoïa would increase causing more and more accidents.
I’m all with wobbling bear (nice post BTW): even with gun control, U.S would still be in a “cultural violence spiral” and I personnaly don’t see any solution for this in the short run.
I don’t want to judge U.S in any way about this issue as I’m not personaly involved nor really informed, though.
I think that’s the exact problem. They get just what they ask for.
From the same wiki article that was quoted earlier on. An extract from Encyclopedia Brittannica, 1911:
“A Malay will suddenly and apparently without reason rush into the street armed with a kris or other weapons, and slash and cut at everybody he meets till he is killed. These frenzies were formerly regarded as due to sudden insanity. It is now, however, certain that the typical amok is the result of circumstances, such as domestic jealousy or gambling losses, which render a Malay desperate and weary of his life. It is, in fact, the Malay equivalent of suicide. The act of running amuck is probably due to causes over which the culprit has some amount of control, as the custom has now died out in the British possessions in the peninsula, the offenders probably objecting to being caught and tried in cold blood.”
So, maybe the security/police should be trained to kneecap/disable those who “go postal” and try them in court later on instead of killing on site.
There are probably lots of contributary factors. But one thing that has been regularly noticed is how patterns repeat themselves. So big patterns (aggressive governments) lead to smaller but similar patters within the system (aggressive people who are governed).
Also it has been well demonstrated in relatively early psychological experiments that having a proximity to weapons made it much more likely that those weapons would be used. The more guns you have, the more people are going to use them. The more people who have guns, the more people are going to die by being shot. XCcrev, in your scenario probably more people whould have got killed as those who had guns shot other innocent people who got caught in the cross fire.