some guys go climbing up a mountain in a snowstorm, and then get lost/injured.
who pays for the recovery of these hikers, search and rescue equipment and all that stuff
the hikers should be sent the bill
Last summer I took a search and rescue plane to find some canoeists I was supposed to pick up, we played the pilot $200
I think that the RCMP will not get involved until someone is missing for at least 24 hours. Once they are involved it is taxpayer dollars paying for the search.
Nobody plans to get lost. If the hikers were prepared when they went into the wilderness they should not have to pay for a rescue just like if a car you should not have to pay for the hospital stay hits you.
If you believe that the person who is lost needs to pay for the costs of search and rescue should Canada change over to an American style healthcare system, have only toll roads and private schools?
I feel strongly that it should
I don’t.
Lots of people can’t afford health care. I’m not talking about foreigners either.
I know I would seriously consider moving to Europe if Canada was any more American.
Interesting question.
Mount Hood in Oregon gets its share of rescues. Just another one today. Last December three climbers died and prompted this article. The quote below is from Park City Utah where outdoor recreation is crucial to their economy, while another county in Utah has elected to charge.
A little closer to home, Mount Baker has a popular back country ski/board area that is accessed from the controlled ski area. They have specific back country rules and They will charge:
Last week a thrill seeker jumped off a cliff into the ocean and then got washed into a cave. He was stuck there overnight and had to be searched for and rescued by helicopter. The bill was $10k and is payed for by taxes.
He was arrested for being a public nuisance.
Some states in the US do have laws allowing them to charge for search and rescue. I’m not sure if Washington state in one of those.
The problem with charging for the search and rescue though is that it can dissuade people from contacting authorities when they first suspect they may be lost. Instead they’ll hang on and try to save themselves rather than risk a $10,000+ bill for rescue.
But then again, a risk of being financially liable might be what is needed to get people to be more prepared before heading out in to situations where they might need a search and rescue if there was an accident.
For the most part I believe that the search and rescue costs should be covered by the state and local government and supplemented by user fees (trailhead fees, Forest Service fees, snow park fees, etc.). The financial risk for the person being rescued should be limited to possible reasonable fines if they were negligent. But what defines negligence? Is it negligence to go unicycling in the backcountry? That sounds like a risky activity for those who don’t know better. Kind of unsettling if the state can start placing limits on what is acceptable risk and if deskbound paper pushers get to define acceptable risk for those who recreate in the outdoors.
What about people in car crashes, should they pay to have their car removed, the mess cleared up, to compensate the people stuck in traffic jams because of thier accident? Just like mountaineering, driving has risks, and accidents happen to even the most prepared and cautious.
I agree that maybe fining people who are negligent might be a good idea, negligence is hard to define, but simple things like do they have spare warm clothing? do they have spare food? have they told someone what their route is and when they expect to be back? have they got suitable navigation equipment? might all be used as rules of thumb that wouldn’t work against people in to more unusal activities (like unicycling).
Any thing that requires helicopters and SAR teams that have to risk their own lives and spend thousands of dollars in equipment and operating costs to come get you for something you decided to go do to hvae some fun sounds like a good indicator
(it was mount hood that prompted the question)
Yes (if negligent or drunk) otherwise, I geuss that’s what taxes do
I know someone who hit a telephone pole and knocked it down and was sent a $1600 bill
But that could happen on any moutain, the best trained, most experienced, best equipped and most cautious mountaineer can still trip and break his leg. You’re saying that every moutaineer, skiier, sailer or whatever else is negligent regardless of how within their abilities they are, or how well prepared, just the act of placing themselves somewhere which is hard to rescue them from counts as negligent in your book. If i believed that I would have to cease all my serious Muni riding.
I’m saying that I don’t see why anyone but the thrillseeker themselves should be responsible.
brian can i ask you a question: what do YOU do for fun?
edit: do you do anything in remote locations?
If my unicycling caused me to to require medical evacuation, or search and rescue teams dispatched, I should be sent a bill.
However, I take very little risks while unicycling. If I might get seriously hurt from a messed up lined, I skip that line. (One of my favourite parts of being in my 30’s)
but do you do much in remote locations? corect me if im wrong but london ontario is not near any vast areas of wilderness where something like a large scale search is likely to ocurr
Nothing ‘too’ remote. Are you suggesting that because you are bored with where you live, and feel the need to go out into the wilderness to pass time by doing dangerous things in the wilderness, knowing full well that you might need to be evacuated and still go out and do it, I should somehow pay for that? Someone has to pay for these things, and it should be you.
The thing is, in the UK because of the NHS I pay for treatment of people who choose to smoke, or have poor diet, take drugs or drink too much. In return they pay for me to be rescued for remote mountain top locations (it’s never happened but it’s possible that it might) or even for my ambluance if I break my leg on the local BMX track.
And surely any road riding, particularly through New York traffic could get you seriously hurt?
its not nessisarily becouse i am bored with where i live but where i live in the first place. for the past 13 years during the summer i have lived in the cub hills region of saskatchewan if i decided to walk a strait line going north i would have reached russia before crossing a road. i enjoy snowmobieling. i alwase tell people where i am going becouse we do not have marked trails in the north! am i being negligent for going snowmobieling where i live instead of loading the sled on a trailer driving a couple hours south and then ride in less intresting terain? in the summer one of my favorite things to do is canoe. i have lead groups on canoe trips on our expansive lake and river systems. my taxes pay for things that will never benifit the people who live up north just like your taxes pay for services that you will most likey never require. most people who have had search crews go out to find them were prepared for what they were dooing and told someone where they were going otherwise nobody would have sent a search crew in the first place and that person or group of people would have died.
edit: search and rescue may be free but an air ambulance ride is not neither is it cheep
and I should be held responsible for that if I were to get hurt or cause an accident or something.
snowmobiling on unmarked trails in the great white north? you tell me