welding for beginers??

General
1

Ok, since there seem to be at least 40 people who frequently post here who
are capable of building professional unicycle parts in there basements, i
have a question. what does it take to be able to do this? My impression had
always been that it takes thousands of dollars to become equipt with the
right equipment to do the most basic and limited types of welding, and was
not really ever pratical for home use. Is this compleatly not true? Can one
go to sears with 500 american dollars and come out ready to start building
frames and uni.5s? And what about knoledge base. Does it not take some
sereous skill to be able to do this type of thing effectivly? I think it
should. help me out with this

__
Trevor andersen

2

Re: welding for beginers??

>And what about knoledge base. Does it not take some sereous skill to be able
>to do this type of thing effectivly?

I think it all begins with…spelling!

David Maxfield
Bainbridge Island, WA

3

I have always had at least a small machine shop available for my use wherever I worked. Consequently, I have done light machining for the last 25 years of my life. None of the machine tools I used to build the uni.5 hub are in my basement.

4

comon people! :frowning:

  • Maxfield D >And what about knoledge base. Does it not take some sereous skill to be able
    >to do this type of thing effectivly?

I think it all begins with…spelling! *

QUIT NIT PICKING!!! WHO CARES IF HE SPELLED SOME WOORDES WRONG!! I DO IT ALL HET TEME!!! (ha ha i spelled some words wrong on purpose)

same with you harper, not as bad, but comone, give the guy a break.

:angry: :angry: im not sure about if you could go to sears and buy a welder for $550 american, quite possibly… but probably not, im not sure im not into the whole welding thing. Does it take skill? yes some. but you could get some boooks form teh library and learn, and ask someone who does it, well gtg, ill try to finish up later.

5

Re: comon people! :frowning:

I’m afraid I don’t understand. Did I miss something?

6

I’m curious too. What does it take to do basic welding and brazing, sufficiently well to build a beginning uni frame or handle-ish thingie? Just a $500 machine and some rods, perhaps a blowtorch? How much self-education is required? Please indulge us this small question, Oh Gurus!

Note: above is spelled correctly so hopefully we will get an answer, Trevor!

7

No, sorry, everyone knows that the correct spelling is “thingy” not “thingie” :wink:

Sorry to repeat the unicyle improvement mantra, but the way to get good at welding is “practise, practise, practise” even if you already have the equipment (or access to it). I’ve done a bit of welding (with a few minutes instruction from my father) and the basic actions are fairly simple, but the fine control required only really comes with practice. I still occasionally blow holes in what I’m welding so I wouldn’t yet try welding something that requires the strength that a unicycle has. I don’t know what is available near you, but over here in Scotland there are quite a few local schools that run evening classes, some of them offer welding. One of my sisters has been to one of these courses and says it was worthwhile (the metal squirrel statue she produced at the end of the course is a different matter though!)

Have fun!

Graeme

8

“practise” or “practice” ?

It’s nice that you’re being ecumenical about spelling, Graeme! :slight_smile:

Sorry to go off track, (well, not really; it seems to be a way of life here) but I think it’s rather strange to be militant about one’s right to misspell. I teach English in Japan, and most of my students can spell English correctly, and when they make a mistake, they immediately want to correct it. Assuming from the locations given, most of the folks who post on this forum are native speakers of English. Have a little pride! You were fortunate enough to be born into the language which is now considered to be the primary tool for global communication. It’s certainly the dominant language on the internet. Use it, don’t abuse it! (End of sermon)

:roll_eyes:

… and now, about typing …

9

I knew somebody would notice that :roll_eyes: That’s one of the words that always gets me, I changed the spelling a couple of times before I posted but obviously missed out one. Usually my spelling mistakes are just typos, but that word and “its/it’s” get me every time. Next time I’ll just stick to one, even if it is wrong. Consistency beats accuracy any day:p

10

No, Graeme, you misunderstood me.
I’m not criticizing/criticising your spelling. You spelt/spelled “practise” correctly for Scotland, Wales, Ireland, England, Australia, New Zealand, and maybe even Canada, and everywhere/one else that uses British English spelling,… but in the US, it’s (as in “it is”) spelled/spelt “practice” (if one knows how to spell, that is.

I must strongly disagree with your contention that

is acceptable! If something is worth doing, it’s (as in “it is”) worth doing correctly. Sloppiness of any sort is not an art. Proper technique and execution… ask any welder… is its (not as in “it is”) own reward.

11

RE: welding for beginers??

> > *what does it take to be able to do this?*I’m curious too.
> What does it take to do basic welding and brazing,
> sufficiently well to build a beginning uni frame or
> handle-ish thingie?
> Just a $500 machine and some rods, perhaps a blowtorch? How much
> self-education is required? Please indulge us this small question, Oh
> Gurus!

I am not a welder, or a guru on the subject. However I did take the first
half of a welding class once. There I learned enough to understand that any
important welding or brazing you have done, you will want to be done by
someone experienced. If you are learning, you’re going to want to do a lot
of practice welds before you work on an important project that you don’t
want breaking at the wrong moment.

My first custom unicycle frame was a Miyata where I paid someone to weld an
extension post (without the clamp) onto the top, so I wouldn’t have to keep
banging my knee against it or tightening the bolt. After the work was done,
I filed the job down smooth, and had the frame re-chromed. Little did I
know, I either filed away too much weld, or the job wasn’t done right. I
ended up with a broken frame, and an expensive chrome job that only got a
month or two worth of use.

Good welders are artists. So allow yourself time to become competent before
expecting to build anything that’s strong and lightweight at the same time!

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com <http://www.unicycling.com>

“This unicycle is made all from lightweight materials. But it uses a lot of
them.” – Cliff Cordy, describing the very heavy new prototype unicycle he
brought on the Downieville Downhill

12

ok back

well from grad 8 to 10 i took metal work class 5 times i think, 2 more than everyone else can take, well actually 4.5 i got kicked out the last half of metalwork. But anyways, it does take skill to make a nice clean weld, i could never get a real nice weld, like someother people have. and with the kinda welders that use the electricity, i forget what thier called, Archwelders?? well they take a different type of plug, i think… it has 2 prongs that go up and down i think they got horizontal, so youd have to install a new plug, you may be able to do that, you may not depending on how good your wiring is. id get a electrician just to be safe. And not to mentian the electricity that they use, they do run on electricity, believe, so using that much might put up your electriciy bill, depending on how much you use it, id doubt that there would be much difference from use of it very seldum for short periods of time. Another thing, watch that if you Archweld? that you dont get teh metal to hot, it can get very hot, and then beld sorta, and burn holes into thiin tubing and stuff quite quickly!. and then theres the welding helmet (i hate them! so dark cant see anything for that few seconds were your feeling around for the spot to weld) and the apron of heavy leather, those are nice, sicne they protect you from teh sparks, and other hot stuff. and of course the welding rods, i believe that there is different rods for different jobs, like idont htink that youd want to go out and buy rods for a backhoes bucket, when your welding up a frame, although it probably woulndt fit into the clip. But if you do get one, id get some practice metal, and just try welding them together at 90 degree angles, and stuff. oh i almost forgot you woulld very much need VICE GRIPS! to hold teh metal toghtere, the one with teh long tongs are the best i beleive, and are made specificly for welding, im not sure though?? well im rambelin on, so im gona go later.:wink:

13

Re: welding for beginers??

sendhair <sendhair.6i6sm@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote:

> Sloppiness of any sort is not an art.

I take it from this that you are not a big fan of artists
such as Emin and Lucas then? Sloppiness is half of the
point of their art.

(Incidentally, dyslexia is considered a disability in some
parts of the world - criticizing poor spelling can be
construed as prejudice against the disabled. Tread carefully!)

Paul

Paul Selwood
paul@vimes.u-net.com http://www.vimes.u-net.com

14

I think you missed my point, Paul. My criticism was not aimed at people with handicaps over which they have no control, it was meant for those who insist that their carelessness at communicating in their first language is commendable or excusable. I doubt that any dyslexic person would prefer to go on misspelling very basic words if they had the choice. I think that, in fact, it’s probably quite difficult for them to participate in a forum such as this one.

I suggest that rather than defend poor spelling on the basis of some kind of political correctness, you might champion proper spelling on the grounds that it would make it that much easier for dyslexics and non-native speakers of English to read these forums.

Since dyslexics have inherent difficulties processing language, don’t you think sticking to standards of spelling is more charitable and helpful than worrying about the feelings of people who won’t use their spell-checkers?

My reference to sloppiness not being an art was pertaining to mechanical products, performance (athletic as well as artistic), and communication. The point is: It takes no skill to be sloppy. It might be argued that Emin and Lucas are making the same point. If you are going to mix the cult of self-loathing with the right to spell badly, fine. Please yourself.

You can tread carefully, if you want. I prefer to ride.

15

RE: welding for beginers??

> I teach English in Japan, and most of my students can
> spell English correctly, and when they make a mistake, they
> immediately want to correct it.

I can’t imagine trying to learn this language as a second or third one. The
only drawback of having grown up with English in America is the lower
likelihood of learning other languages. Though often a requirement in
school, many people don’t “learn” the language, or lose most of what they
have learned if they don’t use it enough.

I used to work for a driving school. We did private lessons, and also
contracted drivers-ed with the local high schools. A lot of high school kids
have trouble forming sentences, and I would sometimes point this out by
reminding my students this:

“Every American should be able to speak, read, and write at least one
language.”

Is that too much to ask? Sure, you can be in a hurry, you can be lazy, you
can even hide behind a label such as dyslexic. But bad spelling will never
enhance your appearance. I use all this keyboard time as a place to try to
improve my spelling, grammar, and writing abilities. Someday it may pay off.

> … and now, about -typing- …

Yeah. My spelling is perfect! It’s my typing I’m having problems with…
:slight_smile:

Stay on top,
John Foss, the Uni-Cyclone
jfoss@unicycling.com
www.unicycling.com <http://www.unicycling.com>

“This unicycle is made all from lightweight materials. But it uses a lot of
them.” – Cliff Cordy, describing the very heavy new prototype unicycle he
brought on the Downieville Downhill

16

Re: welding for beginers??

In article <Graeme.6hqla@timelimit.unicyclist.com>,
Graeme <Graeme.6hqla@timelimit.unicyclist.com> writes:
>
> No, sorry, everyone knows that the correct spelling is “thingy” not
> “thingie” :wink:

I think they’re both allowable contractions of the more formal
“thingumajig”. I like widget words! whatchamacallit, doohicky,
noddy, doodad, gubbins… I used to use ‘doofer’ sometimes, until
I started working with some scots.

============================================================
Gardner Buchanan <gbuchana@rogers.com>
Ottawa, ON FreeBSD: Where you want to go. Today.

17

Re: welding for beginers??

Although welding has some art to it, there is a lot of science that needs to
be considered at the same time.

For instance, 4130 steel has enough carbon in it that fast quenching can
make it brittle. Arc welding (stick, TIG, MIG) on cool 4130 can end up
looking nice but have no shock resistance. Preheating can help avoid this.
Oxy-acetylene gas welding can produce great welds and is a very versatile
welding method. Oxy-acetylene welding is often taught before arc welding in
classes.

Take a class. Even if you don’t end up with the equipment or welding your
own frames you will be a much better educated consumer when you go shopping
for someone to do your welding.

Doug

18

Terribly sorry about the spelling. I gave up on spelling many years ago. I have passed maybe 2 spelling tests in my lifetime and not for lack of trying. It is simply not something i can do, so i dont try anymore. I could of course use spellcheck, but that takes to much time. When I’m typing, i simply do not realize when I spell something wrong. And i can proofread, but, same thing, i wont/dont pick up on anything. i could problebly handle capitalizing some of my words when needed, but i prefer to save the caps for when i need to punch out a sentence or word without starting a whole new paragarph. thats just the way i type. Just curious, do japaneze students spell everything correctly in their native language in there casual e mails?

19

I guess if people do feel it is a problem and have trouble reading my posts, I will start using spellcheck when i post from e/m. Unicyclist.com does not seem to have a spellcheck, and ass I have said, learning to spell correctly is something I have put great amounts of effort into, and still do, but do not feel I have made one bit of progress in. Same with multiplication tables. I wrote thousands of lines of basic code on my old IBM to write a program to help me lean them, and i put the hrs in on the program afterwards, but to this day i could not tell you what 7 times 9 is. People are different, minds work differently. I sutter sevierly as well. It is just as arguable that everybody should be able to speek well and so that nobody should have trouble understanding. But you know, I have logged thousands of hrs in therapy, and have done what i am capable of on my own, and have never been able to speek fluently for more then a few months at a time. Am I a bad person because of this?

Anyway, I will use the spellcheck when I can, and try to use caps and all that (though that horribly crimps my style).

I should also say in my defence, I will often reword or revoke entire setences to avoid using a word I know i will not be able to spell. Its not as if im purly lazy.

I also have to say, that whoever decided on how everything should be spelled, did a TERRIBLE job, and if he were alive today, i would gladly trade life imprisonment to see his life revoked.

Now what about the welding???

20

I may take a class on welding next year. But it would be at an art school, and from the perspective of an artist and may provide less insite into what I’m looking for then I’d like.

I think my main question is, what does it take (mainly finantialy) to be able to do this stuff if you dont have access through school or work?