The world seems to be largely at war these days.
What are your feelings about war?
Is it ever appropriate?
Never?
If so when?
When is it proper to end a war?
Start one?
In what circumstance and in what capacity would you participate in war?
The only question tahat i will answer is the last…The war itself would have to have or have had a direct influence on my family and friends before i would participate.
and war is never good and it never a chieves anything.
To use the cliched answer, would Hitler have stopped killing Jews if we said please?
War is necessary sometimes…in my opinion, the current wars aren’t necessary…
War is appropriate when it is the only option…when diplomacy fails, and people’s lives are in danger, sometimes there’s no other option…I know there’s going to be someone who’s going to reply to this saying “so wait, it’s ok to kill some people to protect other people?”. In my opinion, yes. If there are enough innocents in danger, and every other practical option has been tried, I think it is alright to resort to violence.
When is it proper to end a war? As soon as you can without running the risk that the same thing (the reason for warring in the first place) would happen again.
It’s alright to start one when there is no other practical choice.
It’s a great card game though
i am a real pacifist, and i think you should only use war as a super-duper-really-dont-wanna-do-it last resort. like if a country was being physically attacked, not just threatened or something. and wars should never be waged on immaterial things.
ex. if the US is being physically assaulted by, say, iran, as in official iranian military shooting at US troops, not just iranian civilian wackos.
this would be a time when war is justified, but nontheless, is not something to be glad about.
ex2. if a few certain international wackjobs (ie, al qaeda) not officially associated with any real government or political body are shooting or bombing, say, americans.
this is not a time for war, as there is no establishment to attack, just a terrorist club. the right decisioin is to infiltrate and individually kill or capture members of al qaeda, not make war on a random middle-eastern power, like iraq.
[I]War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
War! huh-yeah
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again y’all
War! huh good God
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
Ohhh? War! I despise
Because it means destruction?
Of innocent lives
War means tears
to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
and lose their lives
I said - War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War! Whoa, Lord …
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
War! It ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
War! It’s an enemy to all mankind
The thought of war blows my mind
War has caused unrest in the younger generation
Induction then destruction-
Who wants to die?
Ohhh? War Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it, Say it, Say it
War! Uh-huh Yeah - Huh!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
War! It ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War! It’s got one friend, that’s the undertaker
War has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled bitter and mean
Life is much to precious to spend fighting wars these days
War can’t give life, it can only take it away
War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again
War! Whoa, Lord …
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?
War! It ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
Peace Love and Understanding;
tell me, is there no place for them today?
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there’s got to be a better way
War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
You tell me
Say it, Say it, Say it
War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Stand up and shout it.
Nothing![/I]
uhh i think that the war in Iraq is not all bad, I mean killing people for stupid stuff because of wackos is always bad, but in Iraq the war was stalled out for somewhere close to 10 YEARS as presidents wagered with saddam and tried to work things out diplomatically, so war in this case WAS last resort
but i don’t want to go to war
i’d rather not kill anyone
War is inevitable when the world is run by inept leaders with Napoleon complexes (no, not Dynamite, Bonaparte). I sincerely wish humans would learn to live together peacefully, but that will never happen.
War is horrible. It is legalized mass murder. especially the ones happening right now which were “justified” by lies. civilians are being killed for no reason at all, the world is growing more and more dangerous and we have not done anything towards “stamping out terrorism”. If “stamping out terrorism” is our goal we should start in the u.s.a… I would almost never declare war. I believe that the killing of any living creature, big or small, is the greatest evil that can be commited. I would only declare war if people were in a great danger from others. instead of dumping money into making war we should use the money to prevent war. If the politicians who voted in support of war, fought the wars there would be a lot less wars.
War is horrible. It is legalized mass murder. especially the ones happening right now which were “justified” by lies. civilians are being killed for no reason at all, the world is growing more and more dangerous and we have not done anything towards “stamping out terrorism”. If “stamping out terrorism” is our goal we should start in the u.s.a… I would almost never declare war. I believe that the killing of any living creature, big or small, is the greatest evil that can be commited. I would only declare war if people were in a great danger from others(like the u.s.a.). instead of dumping money into making war we should use the money to prevent war. If the politicians who voted in support of war, fought the wars there would be a lot less wars.
if you dont like it, go run you’re own country.
If it were that easy, many of us would. 
This is a modern cliche designed to pull upon our emotions now we know and feel bad about what was happening to the Jews. I’m afraid that at the time most of the rest of the world didn’t care. Britain did not go to war with Germany because of anything they were doing to their own people, Britain went to war with Germany because Germany invaded Poland, with whom we had a treaty to join with them if anyone invaded them. I think America joined the second world war because of the bombing of Pearl Harbour (but I stand to be corrected on this if i’m wrong).
In my opinion war is never justified. How can it be OK on a national scale to resort to violence when talking breaks down when it is not OK, even for five year olds to do this on a personal scale? It doesn’t make sense to me.
Maybe it is because I don’t feel particularly anything ‘ish’. I’m Welsh, but my nationality on my passport says ‘British’. I don’t feel British. When people say British, they are thinking English. So I have no nationalistic feelings. (Is there even such a thing as British, we don’t have a British football team for instance). Therefore I do not understand the feelings that others have when they wish to die in defence of thier country. I have no country to die for. Consequently it is absoulutely beyond my comprehension that people believe the properganda that their countries put out at times of war and will be willing to kill people they have never met or who have never done anything to them just on thier country’s say so. I would never participate in a war.
I also find it mind boggling that really we all accept without too much argument all the atrocities that are committed by ‘our’ side in a war (eg the ‘recent’ behaviour by allied/american troups in Iraq).
Cathy
Some interesting quotes about patriotism.
Here are some folks with similar sentiments:
The love of one’s country is a splendid thing. But why should love stop at the border? ~Pablo Casals
Our country is not the only thing to which we owe our allegiance. It is also owed to justice and to humanity. Patriotism consists not in waving the flag, but in striving that our country shall be righteous as well as strong.
~James Bryce
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism - how passionately I hate them!
~Albert Einstein
Our hearts where they rocked our cradle,
Our love where we spent our toil,
And our faith, and our hope, and our honor,
We pledge to our native soil.
God gave all men all earth to love,
But since our hearts are small,
Ordained for each one spot should prove
Beloved over all.
~Rudyard Kipling
To me, it seems a dreadful indignity to have a soul controlled by geography. ~George Santayana
Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons. ~Bertrand Russell
Men love their country, not because it is great, but because it is their own. ~Seneca
Do not… regard the critics as questionable patriots. What were Washington and Jefferson and Adams but profound critics of the colonial status quo? ~Adlai Stevenson
Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first.
~Charles de Gaulle
Blake, that quote right there that you posted basically defines war. You can be proud of your country for being successful in economy, security, stability, whatever the hell you want; but the pure and simple fact that you’re French/German/Croatian/Hungarian and France/Germany/Croatia/Hungary is YOUR country, gives people a sense of purpose to defend what is theirs and truly make sure it stays theirs. Of course, the basic human characteristic of greed, which we all share, plays an integral part as well.
Just look at most wars in the past. They were built around the simple of objective of making your own country, your pride and joy, your homeland, bigger and better. Now, that’s all well and good for you, but there’s limited geography on this earth, and wherever you’re traipsing in might belong to someone else’s country, land that someone else loves because it is their own territory. Based on the same principle as the attackers, the defenders want to keep their country and their land as their own, and so they fight; not out of a pure desire to harm others (although there are exceptions to this), but merely to defend what is rightfully theirs.
That’s why little kids bullying each other is looked down about; it’s basically just senseless violence on a knee-scraping scale with no objective, and so older human beings with more experience see no point to it, and try to stop it.
Gah, I would write more but I have to go to work…give me something to respond too when I get back this afternoon. 
Alright, but to me, the point you made just reaffirms my point…I don’t think there’s anything wrong with protecting another country (or protecting your own from further attack, in the Pearl Harbor example)
So if Five Year Old #1 starts physically abusing FYO #2, and refuses to stop, is it ok for the teacher to intervene and use the necessary physical force to stop #1?
Pardon? We don’t “all” accept it…even my friends who support the Iraqi war are against the war crimes.
The people did nothing!Why can’t the presidents fight themselves instead of sending other people to do it?They’re just lazy, man!Anyways, war mens the end of the world!I always believed it was the end of the world!It’s true!!!Somewhere in Relevation it says that even the rocks will talk about Christ.Have you seen the website about stupid e-bay bids?A picture of Jesus naturally formed on a carton!I mean, dude, if that isn’t the end of the world, I don’t know what is!And there’s this song from Avenged Sevenfold that has a part from Revelation.The Bible says:
“Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”(Revelation 14:8)
The song says:
And makes us drink the poisoned wine to fornicating with our kings.
Fallen now is Babylon the Great.
The Bible says:
He had ten horns and seven heads…(Revelation 13:1)
The song says:
There sat a seven-headed beast, ten horns raised from his head.
See what I mean?It’s the end of the world!No one knows exactly when all that mayhem will occur, so…I dunno…ride now behore chaos and mayhem RULE the world!!!Anyways, also a biblial Revelation quote, not direct, says that in the last days, all the news and what will be talked about is war.Don’t tell me you’ve never seen a headline about war!
At a recent international conference on soil science, I listened to a reknowned Israeli soil scientist talk about the history of agriculture in the fertile crescent. The cradle of civilization because of its once bountiful soils, the region is now deforested, inadequate for most crops and grazing. It has undergone what is called “anthropogenic desertification.”
I asked why that the lecturer why this long-inhabited region failed in sustainability, and some regions elsewhere on the globe have thrived.
His answer silenced the room.
War.
Even pre-industrialized war has a huge cost to the environment. the Deprtment of Energy here in the states is still trying to clean up the messes made at the Hanford Reservation in WA and the Oak Ridge Lab where Pu and U were refined for warheads.
This cost of war leaves a legacy that is every bit as permanent as the cost of human life. However, it is seldom considered.
War is, ofcourse, never appropriate and never necessary. Unfortunately they’re started anyway, and if I was attacked I’d kill and die, not for my country, but in defense of myself and whoever else is attacked.
It’s rarely that simple, so there’s still plenty of room for dilemma.
I like the analogy with the five year olds, but I don’t think there’s any teachers. Just a bunch of five year olds.
This only happened after Germany had invaded/occupied several other countries and/or parts of countries, signing lying treaties and making lying promises all over the place. The details of all that pre-war history are pretty amazing. Natually the Nazis would have been easier to defeat if someone had stood up to them sooner, leaving more Polands, Czechs, Austrians, etc. under their own power and giving them less time to build (and get experience for) their war machine.
So sometimes if a war seems a little pre-emptive it is because people are thinking about the consequences of not acting before worse stuff happens.
Pearl Harbor was like the last straw. Everybody pretty much knew we would have to get involved at some point (or face a much stronger Third Reich at a later time). Pearl Harbor removed all excuses for waiting.
Five year olds have parents. Or teachers. Or even nearby adults, to pick each one up by their collars and tell them to stop and apologize to each other. All we have is a United Nations that’s big on talk but extremely slow to take decisive action. Instead of bolster the UN, the US govt. decided to go around it and do its own thing. This may be necessary if circumstances warrant it, but this has not necessarily been the case so far.
Since countries have no higher authority above them, there is nothing to make them stop if they don’t want to. All you need is one egotistical leader with lots of hardware to create a war. If they are determined to have a war, no amount of talking will stop it. So war can be justified, though it should always be a last resort of course.
Do you own any property? Perhaps it starts there. I also do not fully understand why many people do what they do. A good example is a fireman who runs into a burning building without knowing how close it is to collapsing. But there is enough evidence to show that all firemen are not insane, so it’s something some people do. Same as signing up for military service. They’re not signing up to die, but if they do they hope it will be for a good and honorable cause.
You have never been to Basic Training. I believe this helps a lot. As a soldier, one must realize that they don’t make the political or military decisions; but they are a cog in the machine that exercises their nation’s will. Their nation may not always be right, and this is, I guess, an occupational hazard of being a soldier. But the soldier’s duty is to the country, not to the “rightness” of their particular orders that day or to the conflict in general.
I find none of that acceptable. When the Abu Graibe prison atrocities came to light, high-ranking heads should have rolled very quickly, and they didn’t. This to me suggests there is something to hide, or that the powers-that-be didn’t have enough of a problem with that. A sign of a broken or damaged system.
So, to address the original questions:
Is it ever appropriate? Yes. The invasion of Kuwait was pretty straightforward. We went in, after many months of diplomacy, to give it back to the Kuwaities. Talking to Saddam Hussein, or Hitler, or many other determined leaders, ony gets you so far. If both sides can’t agree, one side is likely to do something naughty. Either let them, or fight back.
When is it proper to end a war? As soon as possible. But you can’t end it too soon, or the “end” may undo itself. The victor in a war declares the new state of affairs. With Kuwait as a simple example, we handed the country back to the Kuwaitis. Iraq today is a much messier example. There’s the question of whether we should have gone in at all, and if we walk out now, what will happen? Is it better to let Iraq fall into anarchy, undoing any positive progress we’ve made so far, or try to stick it out until the Iraqis can safely take over everything on their own? Not an easy one.
Start one? When diplomacy and pretty much every other form of avoiding it fails. If you keep drawing lines and a rival power keeps walking its army over them, if you’re a pacifist you might as well hand over all deeds and receipts for all your property right then and there. Because they’re going to take it no matter how much you hate war. As long as there are Bin Ladens and Hitlers, we’re going to need to be ready for war. We humans have a long, long way to go before we’ll be ready to all behave ourselves…
…Exactly.