Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids

(Everyone ready for another religion argument? :-P~~~)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
http://tinyurl.com/qayk

Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Steve Bradshaw
Thursday October 9, 2003
The Guardian

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to
use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV
virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a
widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV
virus.

A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms,
despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

The church’s claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the
Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican’s
Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told
the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the
spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the ‘net’ that is
formed by the condom.

“These margins of uncertainty… should represent an obligation on the
part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same
way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a
danger.”

The WHO has condemned the Vatican’s views, saying: “These incorrect
statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global
pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and
currently affects at least 42 million.”

The organisation says “consistent and correct” condom use reduces the risk
of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms -
but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of
Health and the WHO found “intact condoms… are essentially impermeable to
particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually
transmitted virus… condoms provide a highly effective barrier to
transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD
viruses”.

The Vatican’s Cardinal Trujillo said: “They are wrong about that… this
is an easily recognisable fact.”

The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks
the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has
fought to defend.

In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the
church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim
about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said:
“Aids… has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms.”

Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected
choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because “the virus can
pass through”.

In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says
he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi
told the programme: “Some priests have even been saying that condoms are
laced with HIV/Aids.”

Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as
far apart as Asia and Latin America.

· Steve Bradshaw is a correspondent with Panorama. Sex and the Holy City
will be broadcast on BBC1 at 10.15pm on Sunday.

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Every day, I’m more proud of the fact that I don’t go to church. No offense
to anyone who does, and I understand the good side of it, but I sure
wouldn’t want to be associated with this kind of crap.


Jay Tierney

“Lisa” <lisa@thedoh.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.09.21.07.06.682412@thedoh.com
> (Everyone ready for another religion argument? :-P~~~)
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
> http://tinyurl.com/qayk
>
> Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids
>
> Steve Bradshaw
> Thursday October 9, 2003
> The Guardian
>
> The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to
> use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV
> virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
>
> The church is making the claims across four continents despite a
> widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV
> virus.
>
> A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms,
> despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.
>
> The church’s claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the
> Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican’s
> Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told
> the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the
> spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the ‘net’ that is
> formed by the condom.
>
> “These margins of uncertainty… should represent an obligation on the
> part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same
> way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a
> danger.”
>
> The WHO has condemned the Vatican’s views, saying: “These incorrect
> statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global
> pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and
> currently affects at least 42 million.”
>
> The organisation says “consistent and correct” condom use reduces the risk
> of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms -
> but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .
>
> Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of
> Health and the WHO found “intact condoms… are essentially impermeable to
> particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually
> transmitted virus… condoms provide a highly effective barrier to
> transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD
> viruses”.
>
> The Vatican’s Cardinal Trujillo said: “They are wrong about that… this
> is an easily recognisable fact.”
>
> The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks
> the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has
> fought to defend.
>
> In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the
> church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim
> about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said:
> “Aids… has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms.”
>
> Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected
> choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because “the virus can
> pass through”.
>
> In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says
> he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi
> told the programme: “Some priests have even been saying that condoms are
> laced with HIV/Aids.”
>
> Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as
> far apart as Asia and Latin America.
>
> · Steve Bradshaw is a correspondent with Panorama. Sex and the Holy City
> will be broadcast on BBC1 at 10.15pm on Sunday.

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Jay Tierney wrote:

> Every day, I’m more proud of the fact that I don’t go to church.

LOL!

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

“Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
news:bm4276$t92$1@www.darklock.com
> Jay Tierney wrote:
>
> > Every day, I’m more proud of the fact that I don’t go to church.
>
> LOL!

I guess there is a lot of discrimination/prejudice in here :wink:


Rodney

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Rodney Blackwell wrote:

> “Shena Delian O’Brien” <shena@darklock.com> wrote in message
> news:bm4276$t92$1@www.darklock.com
>
>>Jay Tierney wrote:
>>
>>[color=darkred]
>>>Every day, I’m more proud of the fact that I don’t go to church.
>>
>>LOL!
>
> I guess there is a lot of discrimination/prejudice in here ;)[/color]

I coulda found that funny for any number of reasons. :wink:

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

How is that discriminatory? I didn’t put the press release out, they did.


Jay Tierney

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
>
> I guess there is a lot of discrimination/prejudice in here :wink:
>

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

> http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
> http://tinyurl.com/qayk
>
> Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids
>
> Steve Bradshaw
> Thursday October 9, 2003
> The Guardian
>
> The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to
> use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV
> virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

Sabotage

Mass murdering by spreding false information

Comparable to a man shuting “FIRE” in a full theatre


Roland Mösl
http://www.pege.org Clear targets for a confused civilization
http://web-design-suite.com Web Design starts at the search engine

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

“Lisa” <lisa@thedoh.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.09.21.07.06.682412@thedoh.com
> The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to
> use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV
> virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

I’m not sure I understand that arguement. So they would rather people use NO
protection than SOME protection (even if their claim of holes was true)?


Rodney

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

HA HA HA HA … i saw that in the newspaper today anda bout shit my pants
when I saw that… first off I Wont go into the blatent error in the medical
terminology that they used in the article about hov HIV and AIDS are the
same , but besides that … condoms are never 100%, nothing is … “using
condoms greatly reduces your risk of contracting an STD.”

-Aaron (who is now a safe-sex educator and regularly gives talks about
STD’s)

“Lisa” <lisa@thedoh.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.10.09.21.07.06.682412@thedoh.com
> (Everyone ready for another religion argument? :-P~~~)
>
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html
> http://tinyurl.com/qayk
>
> Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids
>
> Steve Bradshaw
> Thursday October 9, 2003
> The Guardian
>
> The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to
> use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV
> virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
>
> The church is making the claims across four continents despite a
> widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV
> virus.
>
> A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms,
> despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.
>
> The church’s claims are revealed in a BBC1 Panorama programme, Sex and the
> Holy City, to be broadcast on Sunday. The president of the Vatican’s
> Pontifical Council for the Family, Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo, told
> the programme: "The Aids virus is roughly 450 times smaller than the
> spermatozoon. The spermatozoon can easily pass through the ‘net’ that is
> formed by the condom.
>
> “These margins of uncertainty… should represent an obligation on the
> part of the health ministries and all these campaigns to act in the same
> way as they do with regard to cigarettes, which they state to be a
> danger.”
>
> The WHO has condemned the Vatican’s views, saying: “These incorrect
> statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global
> pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and
> currently affects at least 42 million.”
>
> The organisation says “consistent and correct” condom use reduces the risk
> of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms -
> but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .
>
> Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of
> Health and the WHO found “intact condoms… are essentially impermeable to
> particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually
> transmitted virus… condoms provide a highly effective barrier to
> transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD
> viruses”.
>
> The Vatican’s Cardinal Trujillo said: “They are wrong about that… this
> is an easily recognisable fact.”
>
> The church opposes any kind of contraception because it claims it breaks
> the link between sex and procreation - a position Pope John Paul II has
> fought to defend.
>
> In Kenya - where an estimated 20% of people have the HIV virus - the
> church condemns condoms for promoting promiscuity and repeats the claim
> about permeability. The archbishop of Nairobi, Raphael Ndingi Nzeki, said:
> “Aids… has grown so fast because of the availability of condoms.”
>
> Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected
> choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because “the virus can
> pass through”.
>
> In Lwak, near Lake Victoria, the director of an Aids testing centre says
> he cannot distribute condoms because of church opposition. Gordon Wambi
> told the programme: “Some priests have even been saying that condoms are
> laced with HIV/Aids.”
>
> Panorama found the claims about permeable condoms repeated by Catholics as
> far apart as Asia and Latin America.
>
> · Steve Bradshaw is a correspondent with Panorama. Sex and the Holy City
> will be broadcast on BBC1 at 10.15pm on Sunday.

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

No, they’re supposed to abstain from sex altogether. Hence my being proud
of not being associated with the church.


Jay Tierney

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:bm5u3h$4a3$1@www.darklock.com
>
> “Lisa” <lisa@thedoh.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2003.10.09.21.07.06.682412@thedoh.com
> > The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not
to
> > use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV
> > virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.
>
>
> I’m not sure I understand that arguement. So they would rather people use
NO
> protection than SOME protection (even if their claim of holes was true)?
>
> –
> Rodney
>
>

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

“Jay Tierney” <jay@jaytierney.com> wrote in message
news:bm6ta3$is2$1@www.darklock.com
> No, they’re supposed to abstain from sex altogether. Hence my being proud
> of not being associated with the church.

I’m not sure they want you to abstain from sex altogether…just not until
you are married.

Which isn’t necessarily an evil thing.


Rodney

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

> -Aaron (who is now a safe-sex educator and regularly gives talks about
> STD’s)

The most comfortable and easisest way for safe sex,
is having sex always with the same partner


Roland Mösl
http://www.pege.org Clear targets for a confused civilization
http://web-design-suite.com Web Design starts at the search engine

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Well… duh. Still, the idea of expecting everyone to abstain before
marriage is ridiculous. Kind of like hitting the left-handed kids with
rulers.


Jay Tierney

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message news:bm6tq1
>
> I’m not sure they want you to abstain from sex altogether…just not until
> you are married.
>
> Which isn’t necessarily an evil thing.

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

It depends on who that partner is.


Jay Tierney

“Roland Mösl” <founder@pege.org> wrote in message
news:bm7488$r0r$1@www.darklock.com
>
> The most comfortable and easisest way for safe sex,
> is having sex always with the same partner
>

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

“Jay Tierney” <jay@jaytierney.com> wrote in message
news:bm871c$43a$1@www.darklock.com
> Well… duh. Still, the idea of expecting everyone to abstain before
> marriage is ridiculous.

Call me idealistic, but I think it’s nice to set high goals for yourself.


Rodney Blackwell - http://www.5r5.net

“I’m the latest craze” - Macy Gray

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Roland Mösl wrote:

>>-Aaron (who is now a safe-sex educator and regularly gives talks about
>>STD’s)
>
>
> The most comfortable and easisest way for safe sex,
> is having sex always with the same partner
>
>

Or partners.

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

What does that have to do with the church trying to force everyone else into
what they believe is the right way to live? I have to ask, do you agree
with the policy of not teaching kids about condoms and other forms of
protection, and simply using scare tactics while telling them to abstain?
Call me idealistic, but I believe in being open-minded…


Jay Tierney

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message news:bm879l$4j5
>
> Call me idealistic, but I think it’s nice to set high goals for yourself.
>

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

“Jay Tierney” <jay@jaytierney.com> wrote in message
news:bm8baq$91h$1@www.darklock.com
> What does that have to do with the church trying to force everyone else
into
> what they believe is the right way to live?

It has to do with the fact that they are trying to teach those that believe
in the Catholic ideology what is the best way to live.

They aren’t trying to force everyone else to do anything.

People in the Catholic religion look to the Pope and the heads of the
Catholic church for guidance. That is not by any type of force…that’s
their belief system.

What right do you have to deny them to practice what they believe?

> I have to ask, do you agree
> with the policy of not teaching kids about condoms and other forms of
> protection, and simply using scare tactics while telling them to abstain?
> Call me idealistic, but I believe in being open-minded…

Having a daughter has changed my view on this. I wouldn’t want some school
teaching my daughter what THEY think is the correct ideals on sexual
education. That is MY job as a parent to do as a see fit.

I don’t agree that “sexual education” has slowed the pregnancy rate or STD
rate.

Have you seen or heard about some of the “sexual education” that goes on in
elementary school classrooms? It’s pretty scary and I find most of it to be
excessive.

Your idea of scare tactics might differ from mine.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling children and young adults
that they should abstain from having sex. Why is that not more a part of the
sexual education process? Seeing as how that’s the ONLY method of preventing
pregnancy and STD’s that is 100% effective, you would think that it would be
the main curriculum.

Or do you think sexual education supposed to be telling our kids how to have
sex?


Rodney

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

> It depends on who that partner is.

The partner should have the same idea about it


Roland Mösl
http://www.pege.org Clear targets for a confused civilization
http://web-design-suite.com Web Design starts at the search engine

Re: Vatican: condoms don’t stop Aids

Here’s what I know: last year 60% of high school grads have had sex. I
think they should be informed of the facts regarding diseases and
protection. The big difference is, I’m completely open to informing
students of condoms, etc. while at the same time showing the benefits of
abstinence. The church only wants their way and nothing else - see the
difference? These are the same folks who insist that teachers don’t even
mention evolution.


Jay Tierney

“Rodney Blackwell” <rodney@webdiscuss.com> wrote in message
news:bm8bva$9vl$1@www.darklock.com
> “Jay Tierney” <jay@jaytierney.com> wrote in message
> news:bm8baq$91h$1@www.darklock.com
> > What does that have to do with the church trying to force everyone else
> into
> > what they believe is the right way to live?
>
> It has to do with the fact that they are trying to teach those that
believe
> in the Catholic ideology what is the best way to live.
>
> They aren’t trying to force everyone else to do anything.
>
> People in the Catholic religion look to the Pope and the heads of the
> Catholic church for guidance. That is not by any type of force…that’s
> their belief system.
>
> What right do you have to deny them to practice what they believe?
>
> > I have to ask, do you agree
> > with the policy of not teaching kids about condoms and other forms of
> > protection, and simply using scare tactics while telling them to
abstain?
> > Call me idealistic, but I believe in being open-minded…
>
> Having a daughter has changed my view on this. I wouldn’t want some school
> teaching my daughter what THEY think is the correct ideals on sexual
> education. That is MY job as a parent to do as a see fit.
>
> I don’t agree that “sexual education” has slowed the pregnancy rate or STD
> rate.
>
> Have you seen or heard about some of the “sexual education” that goes on
in
> elementary school classrooms? It’s pretty scary and I find most of it to
be
> excessive.
>
> Your idea of scare tactics might differ from mine.
>
> I don’t think there’s anything wrong with telling children and young
adults
> that they should abstain from having sex. Why is that not more a part of
the
> sexual education process? Seeing as how that’s the ONLY method of
preventing
> pregnancy and STD’s that is 100% effective, you would think that it would
be
> the main curriculum.
>
> Or do you think sexual education supposed to be telling our kids how to
have
> sex?
>
> –
> Rodney
>
>