United Gates of America

Hey,

I was watching a documentary about gated communities in America the other night. Here we have private estates, but not communities, that I’m aware of anyways!

Just wondering if anyone on RSU lives in one of these, and whats it like?
I see the theory behind it, and could imagine it was originally a good idea, but now is seemed to just be like any other white christian populated area. They still have drink drug and violence problems like anywhere else. The only thing they seemed to benefited from was keeping mexican/latin americans out.

You views please,

Joe,

I have a friend who has a beach house in a gated neighborhoood. I went there one time and you have to have a bar code on your car so you can get in or have a “guard” call the house and see if they are expecting any one. This is a really wealthy community so basically it keeps out trouble from only have the really rich living there.

how big were the communities in the documentary?

This is the webpage for it. Not too sure what the population is, it was quite big.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documentaries/features/united-gates.shtml

Joe,

I couldn’t imagine living in a gated community. I love diversity and all through my early childhood I lived in neighbourhoods where everyone was white. When I moved and started high school it was a big change, and something that I loved. Now that I’m in College and everyone in my classes is white I feel really wierd and out of place.

Being in a community where they try and exclude people just seems so horrible.

I don’t get where a gate is a “color filter.” The idea of a gated community, with all its plusses and minuses, is to make it harder to casually enter the property or neighborhood. This probably cuts down on crime.

It can also cut down on having visitors though. Though this is just a gated apartment complex, we have some friends there but if you arrive during closed-gate hours, you need a code to get in, or to make a phone call. Hassle! You used to need a code to get out as well, but they finally installed an electric eye that opens the gate for exiting vehicles.

This is not perfect security, of course, but it does cut down on casual entry. To me, a gated community is a choice (by the tenants/homeowners). It can be either more or less annoying than a homeowner’s association. I don’t think I’d like to live in a place that has both…

Gated communities: A bourgeois phenomenon growing from the sanctity of private property and class identification; too poor to own an estate, but too rich to live among lower income brackets. How socially uncomfortable it must be to own in excess if a neigbor’s poverty questions the morality of your wealth by comparison— Of course with property comes the sense of control and the gated community reinforces that feeling where the alienated are empowered by their consumerism: “I can’t exert real influence within my society, I can’t affect change, but I can own/control property and this validates me”. Society and culture may warp, but ultimately social creatures seek some fulfilling expression of themselves and there are only so many socially acceptible outlets, the gated community is a degree to that ends, consumer values enhanced through a further illusion of control.

But then that’s just a guess… :smiley:

In South Africa they called it apartheid, but the people locked OUT of the gates called it off.

In the USA, where GoldmanSachs workers get a $40 million year end BONUS and the rest of the nation tries to stop a $1.00 increase in the minimum wage, you can be pretty sure someone will need gates sooner or later.

Only in the USA, they take the poor and put them in gated communities called prisons, to make the GoldmanSachs workers feel safe.

So the $billionaire drug cartel bosses also feel safe and stay out of the prison. So the GoldmanSachs workers can be supplied with cocaine.

:smiley:

I thought this was another Microsoft thread. Bill’s lake front complex has a gate. Gates within gates.

I live in a gated community. It’s called my body. I own my body, it’s gated in that I control, as best I can, what’s done with it. You call it control, I call it rights.

The next higher up gated community I live in is my home. I have locks on the door, and can control what’s done with it, but since this community is larger, I have less control and therefore less rights.

And we can escalate it up even further, to a neighborhood, to a city, to a state, or to a country. I would much rather prefer a gated neighborhood to a gated country, because I have more control over it, more rights. It’s not just a sense of control, but I know that on a smaller scale I can better affect the community around me. Anything I do I will see the effect, and will be able to justify further actions that are beneficial. As it escalates to where control can only be done by a larger entity, then there is less chance of me having any control over my surrounding community and the worse I’m off and the worse my neighbor is off.

Joe- I can think of one “gated” village not far from where you live in the North east. And I think you know some people that live there. Talk to the Talls sometime.

From the United Gate.

I saw that Documentary too! Thankyou More 4

Let’s not be silly about this please. Which demographic is going to be able to afford to live in a gated community: Poor, minimum wage african and latino americans or middle class white americans. Let’s not be silly in thinking that all races are in the same boat. There’s plenty more poor brown people out there Shudder () than there are poor white people. Unsuprisingly, if you look at income to colour, there’s a load more white people than brown people on a middle income. It’s not rocket science.

So yeh sure, “Gated Communities” (Nazi Salute) aren’t actual colour filters. There aren’t actual laws against brown people living there but how many more white people are going to afford living there than brown people? As well as this: How many black or latin american or asian or whereeveran families are going to live in a “community” where they’re the only people around that don’t have white skin?

I’m undecided about gated communities.
Part of me considers them to be a way for racist, right wing, rich, comsumerist, crime fearing, superficial, white people, to escape from a world outside which they seem to think is full of drugs, dirt, immigration, lefties, smog and brown people (They’re NOT racist though!)
The other part of me wants to burn them to the ground in a revolution of violence and freedom against evil, rich, racist, white people.
Can someone help me decide? Or at least find me a BIG can of petrol (gassoline).

WooOOt Gilby: Going out there as our PRO-CHOICE candidate!!

“Keep your laws off my body!”

Are you pro drug legalization, too??

wooooOOOtAndy: Going out there as our “let’s dispense with politics” candidate!

3cheers for Marx

Direct Action FTW (For the win) ;).

Ok, just a joke but Can-you-see-what-I-mean?!

If my opinion hasn’t already been said enough (it never will be!)
Gated communities are in fact, created by SATAN in order to seperate and divide the people of the world from each other. They breed hatred and fear and should be burnt to the ground.

Different people are good for you.

AOL owns my soul

Hmm… It makes you wonder how much of a right you have over your own “community”. Do you have the right to govern who comes in and goes out? Do you have the right to restrict what people do in your “Community”?

No doubt there’s no way of me winning any sort of argument with you as you’re older than me with a more developed mind etc (as comes with age and lots of intelligent discussions which I hope to have in time).

BUT

Gated communities aren’t just a way of being able to collectively control the rules of an environment. Being gated: they specifically restrict the movement of people in a community, ie. “You’re not allowed here”. Isn’t freedom of movement a right that we all have? Can we legitimately stop people from being in “communities” where we are? I don’t think we can.
Before someone says “You wouldn’t let strangers come into your house”-I’m talking about the movement of people in open, un-lived in lands).

BUT

Property is theft ;).

//Discuss (AOL stylee)

AOL owns my soul

Hmm… It makes you wonder how much of a right you have over your own “community”. Do you have the right to govern who comes in and goes out? Do you have the right to restrict what people do in your “Community”?

No doubt there’s no way of me winning any sort of argument with you as you’re older than me with a more developed mind etc (as comes with age and lots of intelligent discussions which I hope to have in time).

BUT

Gated communities aren’t just a way of being able to collectively control the rules of an environment. Being gated: they specifically restrict the movement of people in a community, ie. “You’re not allowed here”. Isn’t this a right that we all have? I can’t legitimately say: I own this area (which I’m not living in ;)) therefore you can’t go here.
Before someone says “You wouldn’t let strangers come into your house”-I’m talking about the movement of people in open, un-lived in lands).

BUT

Property is theft :stuck_out_tongue:

//Discuss (AOL stylee)

AOL owns my soul

Hmm… It makes you wonder how much of a right you have over your own “community”. Do you have the right to govern who comes in and goes out? Do you have the right to restrict what people do in your “Community”?

No doubt there’s no way of me winning any sort of argument with you as you’re older than me with a more developed mind etc (as comes with age and lots of intelligent discussions which I hope to have in time).

BUT

Gated communities aren’t just a way of being able to collectively control the rules of an environment. Being gated: they specifically restrict the movement of people in a community, ie. “You’re not allowed here”. Isn’t this a right that we all have? I can’t legitimately say: I own this area (which I’m not living in ;)) therefore you can’t go here.
Before someone says “You wouldn’t let strangers come into your house”-I’m talking about the movement of people in open, un-lived in lands).

BUT

Property is theft ;).

//Discuss (AOL stylee)

Yes Sarah, this is a gated ‘village’, but I’m talking about communities. They are self sufficient gated towns which have their own legal bits and bobs, own mayor etc. The gated villages I know of here are very nice housing estates, which do have security on the gate , but are not the same as the said ‘gated community’, as far as I know.

This is a very good thread, and its intriguing getting so many different peoples views and opinions. Keep it going :slight_smile:

Joe,

Being that at the lowest level, my community is my body, yes, I have that right, or at least I should. Granted, I’m sure we all know that it’s a hard task to restrict what all the ladies would like to do in my community. :smiley:

Don’t sell yourself short there. You’re displaying signs of giving up control of your thoughts. Age can be a benefit and a burden when it comes to intelligence or problem solving. With age comes ingrained ideals and perceptions that can easily hinder ones ability to think rationally. A younger mind is more innocent when it comes to that and usually bring about new ways to look at a problem or issue. Both young and old can learn from each other.

You’re looking at the rights of two individuals in this case. The landowner and the person attempting to move in to that land. The landowner has the right to use their land in a way that maximize it’s use. If the person moving in has a more efficient use of that land, then they have the right to try to buy the land from the owner and they will likely find a price that is inbetween the value to the original landowner and the new landowner. Everybody involved wins. As for freedom to roam, like you said you do not have the freedom to go in to a stranger’s house, without agreement with them. Your ability to be mobile is not hindered as many places open up their land for use by anyone as that’s beneficial for them (it’s their business, etc.). So with a gated community, a city, they will probably eventually realize that being confined and locking people out is not beneficial. Same goes for racism. If one store does not do business with someone because of race (or other segregation), then they are losing out on business. In the end, the business that does not segregate will ultimately win because of a larger customer base.

Let’s give each other the benefit of the doubt. In this country there are many types of gated communities. You have to be able to afford the housing inside, but this does not impose any color barriers that didn’t exist without the gate. A neighborhood of houses, in most of America, are of relatively the same price level (assume equal care and condition). Cost of living is the color filter, if any. The gate is not.

I have direct experience with four different types of gated community, so here are some examples:

  1. Manned guardhouse. I think my uncle lives in one of these, in Orlando (less than a mile from Gatorland!). Much more user-friendly than the others. When we were down there recently, after a couple of visits the guard recognized us and was always friendly.

  2. Unmanned guardhouse. Then you need a code, or to call someone to get you buzzed in. Can be a very big pain, even if your sister-in-law knows you’re coming. Also if you’re a Dominos Pizza driver, like I once was. There was a very large gated neighborhood on the outskirts of our delivery area. Customers in there would have to meet us at the gates. If they were late we would have to wait, and lose time/money.

3, 4. Small apartment or condo complex, manned or unmanned. Different reasons for it here, such as very limited parking. Otherwise really the same plusses/minuses as the others.

My experience with #2 above does not fit the crime protection model as well. The one I’m thinking of was on the outskirts of Detroit’s suburbia when it was built, in Farmington Hills or West Bloomfield in the early 80s. Crime could not have been a big deal there at the time.

For most gated communities I think one of the main concerns is crime. It’s a lot harder for your house to get emptied by burglars while you’re on vacation, for example, if there’s a gate keeping unauthorized visitors out. I’m sure it could be defeated by clever criminals, but fortunately most criminals are not. Same goes for car theft. Smaller-scale vandalism could happen from within the neighborhood, but much of it from outside may also be prevented.

For the urban or semi-urban locations, having a gate can also protect your parking spaces. Some people will park wherever they can, and don’t care if your name or number is on a spot. The gate helps with this.

The answer? Some. You are only one member of your community, so you should have a percentage of input on this. But so does everyone else. If all of you decided to have a gate, hopefully you thought it through. You can’t control who your neighbors let in, but random entries are limited.

Like Gilby said, don’t sell yourself short. Having discussions like this, if you keep an open mind, will add to your experience. Also the more people you know, in the more different types of living arrangement, the more experience you will have about the goods and bads of those.

If you’re asking if we can do what people have been doing for years, I think you have your answer. But how? Again, things might work differently for the UK. Here, I know you can’t just get together with your neighbors and decide to put a gate across some public roads. Also I may be wrong about this, but I’m going to start by assuming the gated community is private property. All of it, including the streets. Then I’m pretty sure they can do all sorts of things, long as they don’t conflict with other laws.

House, exactly. the idea is an extra layer of protection for your house, property and family. Can you put a fence around your property? Why not, it’s your property. I think the average gated community is just an extension of that.

I don’t know what that means. Unless AOL has recently changed drastically, I’m going to assume it still sucks (I used to be “unicycle@aol.com” before I knew any better).

CONCLUSION:
Anyway, forgot to wrap it all up. I’m not a big fan of gated communities, or neighborhood associations that won’t let you paint your house an interesting color, or lots of other things. But on the other hand I don’t mind if other people choose to isolate themselves in that way, if it works for them. They don’t want “strangers” in their neighborhood? Fine, accept the lack of variety that comes with it. I choose not to live in a gated community.

Then again, my brother-in-law lived in a little one. The gate was clearly there to protect the properties inside, based on the local area outside. Nice houses inside, much older neighboorhood just outside, lots of apartments beyond that. And his gate seemed to not be a hassle like others I’ve had to deal with. Also I know there were at least two Mexicans living in there, and that was just in his house! :slight_smile:

Or maybe they just want to live there. You socialist left wing idiots ought to post your bulls*^t on a socialist left wing idiot website instead of a unicycle website. This is www.unicyclist.com not www.jumpingofftheleftsideofthepoliticalspectrum.com.