I was unicycling threw a park one day with no other intention then getting to the other side when a policeman stops me and finds me 175$ for “bicycling” in a park. Even though it says in the bylaw no.1380 division X, nuisances relating to streets and parks, under bicycling, skate boarding, in-line skating that “it si forbidden to circulate by bicycle, skateboard or in-line skates in a public place, exept when such activity is performed in an location authorized by the town.”
What this means is that no matter where you unicyle you are always in infraction of the law.(even thought the bylaw does not mention unicycles) And for some reason bycicles in the streets are okay…and skate boarders get a skate park…
This is what all the democrats are currently asking in California. But this is beside the point, unless you plan to campaign for new legislation. Your more immediate worries should be
Am I guilty of this infraction?
Am I going to fight it in court?
Certainly a big fat fine out of nowhere, if you are in such a legal gray area, does not seem appropriate. Was this your first interaction with the law, or had there been previous encounters?
Also, were you riding in a straight line through the park, or doing something else, such as practicing. The law you quoted seems to deal with public nuisance, which riding from A to B doesn’t sound like it should fit under.
I would fight it, Thats a hefty fine for riding arround. Even if you go to court and say your sorry for not fully understanding the law you usually get a reduced fine here in the states.
Also you might want to look at the defenition of bicycle in Montreal it could be in your favor on this one.
It is forbidden to walk, run or circulate in a public place in amanner that disrupts the peace or tranquility of persons, causes a danger,disturbs or bothers the public.
(The ministry of silly walks would have trouble here.
It is forbidden to plant a poplar, a weeping willow or a silver maple within the Town, without having obtained the prior written consent of theTown
(Tree fascists)
It is forbidden to loiter in a public place
(So evidently one can’t just stand in the park wondering why there are no poplar trees)
It is forbidden to play Frisbee or practice hockey, baseball,football, soccer, softball, golf or any other ball sport in a public place,except when such activity is performed in a location authorized by theTown
(I can’t play Frisbee… in a park???)
These people are waaay too anal. Move now before you’re assimilated!
What’s the legal definition of a bicycle? If there is none, then I’d say it’s a totally bogus charge. A uni is not a bike: 1) the “bi” in bike means two, and a uni only has one; 2) almost everyone can ride a bike, only a small percentage of people can ride a unicycle (can the judge ride your "bi"cycle? the cop?) - lacking a legal definition otherwise, a unicycle is clearly not a bicycle.
no it’s not right, but neither is the judicial system so what’s a guy to do? while i disregard these kinds of things and occasional “warnings” from police officers telling me “that’s the same as a bike” (it’s not), i usually consider the severity of the situation and the consequences. unicycles are totally different vehicles, and probably the safest of any under those kinds of laws. so there’s no way a blanket statement about “bikes” could be logically applicable, but police aren’t about logic. since this is money coming out of your pocket, i’d act depending on the most probable outcome out of the possible actions you could take.
Brilliant advice. How many times do we react emotionally to a situation – often in ways that are not to our benefit? Instead, we should think logically and objectively to determine a desired outcome, an objective, a goal. And then proceed with a plan that is unwaveringly driven by those goals and objectives.
Set out to change the world or protest an unfair law – and you may end up paying the full fine. Define success as not paying the fine or having the fine reduced – and you may succeed. You can still work to change the law, but now may not be the best time or the best avenue.
I try (“try”) to live life like a video game. The type of computer game where you navigate a character through life situations and interact with people. In the game, upon encountering a difficult or unreasonable character or an unfair situation, because you are playing a game, you react with detachment, abandon, and logic. Your goal is the most favorable outcome, and you will act accordingly. But faced with a similar situation in real life, you may get angry or feel insulted or offended or that you are being treated unfairly – and that’s when logic often flies out the window, and is replaced by emotion. Do you want to win the game? Do you want the most favorable outcome? Then follow Zach’s advice. Or in my terminology, play the “game” of life!
(as to how to actually go about beating the fine, I have no idea…)
Dave Lowell (uni57)
P.S. - Certainly, computer games can cause us to get mad or frustrated, but it’s a different quality of emotion than in real life. With the game, you don’t feel insulted, offended, victimized. Well, that’s just my take on things. Your mileage may vary. And why is playing a game different? Because you are doing it to have fun? Well, isn’t that the goal of real life too? (all these ideas are my own original thoughts, so use them at your own risk!)
This sounds severe if all you were doing was riding steadily in a straight line without annoying anyone else.
The law varies from place to place, and the way that it is interpreted can depend on the police officer and the judge/magistrate. I go to court quite often with my job, and I’ve seen some good decisions, and some strange ones.
Question: does the police officer want to spend a day in court and risk losing? Is your local police force overburdened with manpower, and are the crime figures at an all time low? If not, then what would the local papers make of the police prosecuting a unicyclist with the full weight of the law, when burglaries and car crimes remain unsolved? So, if you challenge the ticket, it could be withdrawn, and you could get a caution, or similar.
On a more general note, I reckon that if you act and look like a cyclist, you’ll be treated as a cyclist; if you act and look like a pedestrian, you’ll be treated like one; if you act and look like a skater, you’ll be treated like one. So, think about how you dress, how fast you ride, where you ride, and how often you dismount to give way to pedestrians or traffic. If you look like you’re meant to be there, then you will usually be tolerated… but not always.
Here are the facts: I had already been warned not to unicycle in another park some few months ago where I was practicing hopping on short tables in a remote part of the park. At the time I was the only one in the park.
This time was different, I wanted to go to my friend’s house so I decided to go through a small park instead of taking a more dangerous( by this I mean oncoming traffic) detour. On the way there I passed in front of the local police station. I then went up the road, through the the park where a police car was patiently wating for me. He then asked me for my name and told me that I was in infraction of rule so and so.I then told him my name with no visible expressions of anger.
In my home town New Plymouth a little costal city in New Zealand the police are more than awear that unicycles are not bikes. Rowan, Ben and myself went to the local police station to arguee a ticket rowan got for some “unlawful transport” namely riding without a helmate and on the foot path (both illegal in New Plymouth). So we rolled down there (hehehe, i did a pun) and asked to see the law that covered unicycles, all the laws we wanted to see! All of them! you know what they gave us? NOTHING! In new zealand there a NO laws that could be found to cover unicycles! Some laws totaly rulled them out but some other laws where in grey areas, like riding at night with a light. So here are the conclusions we came to, If you ride at night you have to have a light, ride on the footpath or road, you can ride in parks and walkways aslong as speeds don’t exceed 15KPH (suites me on my 24X3) you have to use handsignals. The tree laws (light, not over 15kph and hand siglans did not include or exclude unicycles so in my mind it would be good to follow them.
Skip forward about 2 months and Rowan and myself where out for a day riding and filming in the park when we come across a rather anal-retentive security officer chatting up a single mum in the playground, Obviously trying to show off his power and authority told us to get off and walk. We explained to him about the laws and he said that we would have to check with the local city council to check the recent bilaw prohibiting B*kes in the park. So Rowan and I walked the 10 meters to get out of his site and went to the local councel. There we looked over the bilaw and found about the 15kph thingy. While there we also had a chance to talk to some bigshot from the local councel. He was nice and we exchanged cards me promissing to email him outlining some of the facts of a unicycle (like how fast are they going to go in the park, how manuverable are they) and him with the promiss of bringing it up at a future board meating.
Skip 2 weeks ahead. I finaly got the motervation to email this guy and told him all i know about what a unicycle is and does, he replyed thanking me and informing me that i was more than welcome to use the park and thank you for spending the time coming to see the councel about the matter. He also stated that he would bring the matter up the next time the bilaw was reviewed, with some comment about how he would try to make it so that unicycles could be used in the park. He ended the email with a story about how he was out with his grand daugtor in town and say someone (sounded like the discription of Rowan) riding through town and he said his grand daugtor though it was great!
Skip forward 2 more weeks, I was at the local fish and chip shop and police man came into the shop say my unicycle and came over to talk to me, my first reaction was “here we go im going to get hit up about not having a helmate again!!!” But no i was wrong the policeman told me about how he was told a police meeting that unicyclists where not required to wear helmates and that we could ride on the foot path, he thought they where great things and we had a good chat. Turns out this guy at the councel was responsable for “Predestrain safty and planning” amoung other things, i almost wet myself laughing, we got the right guy, he went down to the police station personaly and informed the boys in blue that we could do pritty much whatever we liked and that he didn’t want any complaintes from unicyclists about being harased. I thoguht this was all a little weard that he would feel so pationate about it but this sort of sliped to the back of my mind and i got my food and left.
Skip to yesterday i was at a friends house and there was this man there i thought i knew the face but couldn’t work out who he was, anyway i went outside to help my friend with some more unicycling tips and the like. When i came in the guy just handed me his card…he was the guy from the councel!!! turns out i had been teaching his daugtor how to unicycle for the last month!!!
Far out, interesting twist. Thats some good news anyway James. The cop wrote me out a $140 ticket for no helmet and riding on the footpath, and said it would be sent to me in the mail, but it never arrived. I had told him what the law was and how I wouldn’t have to pay if it went to court, so he probably just threatened me and whimped out from writing the tickets.
Police don’t like being told how to do their job, and if you say “No sorry officer this is not a Bicycle it is a Unicycle” in the nicest possible way, chances are they will still take it as a personal insult to their intelligence. Good luck in getting off the fine Murde Mental, it’s a pity when police misappropriate their time and efforts into victimless crimes and badly worded, misunderstood or obsolete laws.
On a point of detail: that’s not anal retentive behaviour.
An anal retentive works like this: you ask him for something and he shows his power by refusing to give it to you. The opposite (various names give, such as anal expulsive) shows his power by (metaphorically) shttng on you.
This guy was clearly the latter.
It would have been anal retentive if you’d asked him nicely for permission to ride and he’d refused to grant it - without valid reason.
It comes from a theory that a baby’s first chance to exert control over other people is when it’s being potty trained. Mother clearly wants baby to poo in the potty. If the baby wants to assert its independence, it can either (1) refuse to poo (anal retentive); or (2) poo somehwere else, making a mess (anal expulsive). These character traits are then supposed to remain in later life.
I think he was a bit of both. First he told us to get off and walk, which was the expulsive part. He had no reason to do so as we were in the childrens playground, where there is more than enough lawn space for everyone, and the children are entertained by seeing us ride. Then we reasoned with him asking nicely for permission to continue riding. We explained the low speeds we ride at, and the consideration we give to the environment, avoiding causing damage. He told us he was not the right person to talk to, and that it’s not up to him to make up the rules (which he assumed we were breaking). The second part was the retentive part, where he would not budge an inch from his conservative stance, not allowing himself to see the reasons we put forth as valid. He was only doing his job though, and when we asked him who the right person is, he suggested the City Council, which was obviously the right place since we now have permission.
>it can either (1) refuse to poo (anal retentive); or (2) poo somehwere
>else, making a mess (anal expulsive). These character traits are then
>supposed to remain in later life.
Fortunately, they find different ways to express themselves.
Klaas Bil - Newsgroup Addict
If the crank is moving then it really sounds as if it’s loose. - onewheeldave trying to pinpoint the cause of a clicking crank
I think the cops are just trying to intimidate “dilinquant” teenagers. For sure they wouldn’t give me this sort of crap if I was 40. Funny thing is that instead of imposing respect for the authorities they’re doing just the opposite!
Anyways, I do plan to bring this to court. Not only that but to make the city recongnise and treat unicycles as pedestrians.
“zach_jucha” <zach_jucha.urvb6@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in message news:zach_jucha.urvb6@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
>
> no it’s not right, but neither is the judicial system so what’s a guy to
> do? while i disregard these kinds of things and occasional “warnings”
> from police officers telling me “that’s the same as a bike” (it’s not),
> i usually consider the severity of the situation and the consequences.
> unicycles are totally different vehicles, and probably the safest of any
> under those kinds of laws. so there’s no way a blanket statement about
> “bikes” could be logically applicable, but police aren’t about logic.
> since this is money coming out of your pocket, i’d act depending on the
> most probable outcome out of the possible actions you could take.
>
The police may indeed not always be about logic, few humans are, but the law
is usually about precision, and points of order, and once you are sure that
you have been charged with riding a BICYCLE in some manner or other, then
unless the state/country has a legal definition ( note: legal as opposed to
dictionary definition) that defines a unicycle as a bicycle then any decent
lawyer should have no problem in getting you off. The police would
probably, after some thought withdraw, rather than be made to look fools in
the press. And it is the sort of story the press love !
But maybe a polite enquiry to the local chief of police, in the first place
might also have an effect, state why you think it was unjust, especially
seeing the size of the fine, point out that bicycles are banned in the park
because of speed/collision dangers, and show how slow the unicycle is
capable of travelling without gears, how instantly you can stop, pretend
even that it is more of a plaything, a toy, and you will probably get your
money back.
All I know is law enforcement gets confused.
I recall riding down Yonge Street - the main street in Canada.
I was told by an officer to get off the sidewalk and into the road, as I was
a danger to pedestrian traffic.
Then a couple blocks later I was told by another officer to get out of the
road and onto the sidewalk as I was a danger to vehicular traffic
You can assume that a unicycle is prohibited whereever bicycles are
prohibited. After all a whole or half bike is still a bike.
Here in Ontario if you ride a 26" wheel or larger, the highway traffic act
prohibits you from riding on the sidewalk. You can only legally ride in the
road. Under 26" and you can ride on the sidewalk, except where bikes are
prohibited. But in our fair city, the only place bikes are prohibited is on
expressways and multi lane highways, and sidewalks, if the wheel is 26" or
larger. We can bicycle in all our parks, but usually their is a posted speed
limit of 20Kph.
Move to Toronto, it’s a bike/ike friendly Metropolis.
“Murde Mental” <Murde.Mental.ur6ba@timelimit.unicyclist.com> wrote in
message news:Murde.Mental.ur6ba@timelimit.unicyclist.com…
>
> I was unicycling threw a park one day with no other intention then
> getting to the other side when a policeman stops me and finds me 175$
> for “bicycling” in a park. Even though it says in the bylaw no.1380
> division X, nuisances relating to streets and parks, under bicycling,
> skate boarding, in-line skating that “it si forbidden to circulate by
> bicycle, skateboard or in-line skates in a public place, exept when such
> activity is performed in an location authorized by the town.”
>
> What this means is that no matter where you unicyle you are always in
> infraction of the law.(even thought the bylaw does not mention
> unicycles) And for some reason bycicles in the streets are okay…and
> skate boarders get a skate park…
>
> I ask you, fellow unicyclists, IS THIS RIGHT ?!
>
> ~Owen
>
>
>
> -bicycling-
>
>
> –
> Murde Mental
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Murde Mental’s Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/4463
> View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/28075
>
