Unicycling - A white dominated sport in the US?

(Before I start: as a mere European, can I ask for clarification: is “ass munch” an American PC term of endearment or a colourful term of opprobrium?):wink:

Political Correctness. Wonderful idea, but it is a catch-all term which includes a lot of good stuff (don’t say “n***er” or “poofter” or “wog”) and a lot of silly stuff (“chairperson”, when “chair” was perfectly acceptable) and most of all a lot of fictitious stuff - urban legends - like “personhole cover” instead of “manhole cover”.

In America, you (they) say “African American” and you mean “negro” or “black”.

“African American” = 7 syllables, two words. “Black” = 1 syllable, 1 word.

And although “black” is a poor descriptive word, covering a range of shades and appearances, we all pretty much know what is meant by “black”, “brown” or “white”.

But take “African American”. For a start, if you see a man on the other side of the street, how do you know he’s American? “Look at that African American over there. That one: the tourist from England.”

Then there’s the African bit. The American Civil war was when, around 1840? So allowing a generation every 20 years, that means that someone born in the ACW could have great great great great great great grandchildren born in America. A so-called African American could easily be from the 10th generation born in the USA. But (s)he’s still “African”?

So, not only is African American 7 syllables and 2 words in the place of “black”, but it is less accurate, potentially misleading, and potentially divisive.

Is it my business as an Englishman? Yes, because some politicians are trying to introduce a similar set of labels here: Pakistani British, Caribbean British, etc. Such labels are clumsy, potentially divisive, and often inaccurate.

In the early 1980s, a friend of mine went on a racial awareness course with his job, and returned from it to tell me that “they” should all be called “blacks”. Nice short word. Unambiguous? No, because according to his course tutors, “black” was anyone who wasn’t “white” - which would lump “Afro-Caribbeans” (ahem!) with Pakistanis and Indians.

There are many racial tensions in this country. I have met people of Caribbean descent who despise people of direct African descent. There are huge cultural differences between Caribbean and African (and no doubt some similarities). Pakistanis and Indians dislike being mistaken for each other for the simple reason that their two countries have been at war or on the verge of war for as long as anyone can remember. Pakistanis are predominantly Muslim; Indians predominantly Hindu. Very different cultures. They can’t all be happy to be called “black” and lumped together on the basis of one poorly-defined physical characteristic.

Negro, as a word, comes indirectly from the Latin, meaning black. Niger (with one “g” is Latin for black. There is no rational reason why a word derived from Latin, but meaning “black” should be more or less offensive than the Old English equivalent (“blaec” is the root of “black”) It is people that have made the words offensive by context and tone.

Fashions change. Amongst themselves, many young black males are “reclaiming” “n***er” in an ironic but inclusive way. Homosexuals are doing the same with the word “queer”. Eventually, “African American” will become a term of derision amongst white racists, if it hasn’t already.

As an outsider, it seems to me that Americans use terms like “African American” because it is almost but not quite inclusive. “American” is the best thing you can possibly be, and “UnAmerican” is just about the worst thing you can be. “African American” implies good, but qualifies it. I don’t like that.

Then of course you have “native Americans”. But scientists will tell you that all homo sapiens originated from Africa. The distinction between “native” and someone whose family has ony been in the country since 1492 is a difficult one for me to grasp. Why not use their own words and tribal labels, if they still feel these to be relevant? If I were an Apache or Cheyenne or whatever, I would probably be much happier to be called an Apache or Cheyenne or whatever than to be called a “native American”. Or I might think, “That was generations ago; I’m just an Amercian.”

In the UK, we have white people whose backgrounds might be Celtic, Norse, Saxon, Mediterranean… we’ve been invaded and taken over by Celts, Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings, and Normans, and we have a germanic royal family. Only a certain type of person makes a point of referring to their origins as “Celtic” or “Anglo Saxon” and they are often factually incorrect. (My Nazi brother calls himself Anglo Saxon, but it is clear that he is wrong. Otherwise I’d be an Anglo Saxon too.)

Mike, here in Canada there is a radio host working for the CBC who refers to white folks as “people of pallor” :slight_smile: .
Cheers Dave

It’s also spanish for black, which make sense since spanish is a latin based language.

Negro is, as I understand it, short for Negroid - although I’m not sure which came first.

And French “noire” lots of other words. “Denigrate” originally meant “to blacken” and now means “to disparage”. Make of that what you will.

The other way round: “negroid” is an extension of “negro”. “N***er” is a corruption of “negro” and took a simple descriptive wordand turned it into a term of contempt, used by contemptible people.

Negro = black. Negroid means “having the characteristics associated with a negro”. A comparison could be made with oval/ovoid.

When it was still considered an acceptable word, negro was used to describe a person with the characteristics typical of a black African: dark skin, tightly curled black hair, brown eyes, etc. For comparison, “Caucasian” meant a person with the characteristics associated with a white person from the Caucasian mountains of the USSR: pale skin, usually blue/green eyes, straightish hair, etc. Unfortunately, these reasonably accurate labels have been superseded by complex and less accurate circumlocutions designed to avoid giving offence where none was usually intended.

In Latin, there was more than one form of each word. Just as in French you have “vert” and “verte” both meaning “green”, but one is masculine and one feminine, in Latin they had word forms for masculine, feminine, plural and singular, and even for the place that the word had in the sentence (relating to the subject of the verb, object of the verb, etc.). This was then overlaid with centuries of misuse and bad habits, and mixed with Greek and with European words in an unstructured way.

Those were big words, and I don’t feel like looking up “opprobrium.” So I’ll just offer that the school of Beavis and Butthead is not a good place to learn American vocabulary. :slight_smile:

Uh oh, I saw how long your post was, and by its size I knew it would be an attempt to make sense of “political correctness” vs. the various labels we give each other. It makes my eyes tired just thinking of it.

Political correctness is as far from logic as anything else human. Sure it doesn’t make sense. The “American” part is not entended as a form of superiority, rather it’s a symptom of the American tendency to think within our own borders too much. In other words, it’s just intended for use among Americans, and within the country. It’s supposed to mean “people whose heritage is originally African, but now live here” with a reminder that they are Americans regardless of their color. Supposedly.

“Black” is much easier to use, and is in very common use all the time. But it’s not the current “polite” label to use. Both are wrong. Any word we come up with will continue to be wrong, because what those words are for is to separate people out by skin color. There is something inherently wrong with doing this.

“Black” is no more accurate than African American, in fact it’s less accurate. Some of the blackest people I know are from India. But when we talk about black people, for some reason we usually don’t mean people from India. Or people from Jamaica. Or people who work in coal mines (unless they were black when they went in). Or Africans, most of the time, either.

African American, of course, is equally wrong. If your descendants have been in the country three times longer than mine, why do you have to be African while I’m just a “fully assimilated generic Northern European?” I’ll tell you why. Because my skin is of the more common color and yours is not. With all the cultural and historical baggage that goes along with it.

Most black people in American are probably not 100% African. I have no idea of the statistics, but I’m assuming that the longer your ancestors were over here, the more likely it is that there was some ethnic cross-breeding. So when do you stop being African, if you ever were? I was never German, though I am roughly 3/4 of German descent. Why am I not German-American? I suppose I am, and I can say I am if I have a need to. Or Norwegian-American next time I go to the Norsk or Scandanavian Festival. My name (Foss) means “waterfall” in Norwegian (or Icelandic). I don’t feel Norwegian.

Why is it that this color-definition thing seems to always break down into whether you have a certain amount of African blood or not? I don’t know, but I don’t like it. When do we stop separating out African from non-African?

Hopefully you can bypass some of this nonsense. Perhaps you can stick with whether the person is of European heritage or not. But even then, what’s the point? Is it to call out the person by color or not, and why? Or perhaps you can get people to use “immigrant.” That makes tons of sense, and doesn’t divide people by skin color. But you’ll find it’s not useful. That would mean English society would have to recognize second-generation black citizens as non-immigrant while someone fresh off the boat from Sweden is the ethnic one. How useful is that? See? It makes no sense.

Of course it does make sense, if you live in a world where people get discriminated against because of their color, or of their perceived ethnicity. And that’s what those labels are more appropriately used for, not talking about society outside of social problems.

The not-politically correct word here is “Indian” or even “American Indian.” This went out of favor for whatever reason. Perhaps because it originally derives by a mistake the Christopher Columbus probably never actually made. He was supposedly trying to get to India, so the natives he encountered (in Puerto Rico or wherever he actually landed) were called Indians.

But why would he do this? He probably never did. It might have been his critics making fun of him. Ha ha, he tried to sail the wrong way to India but bumped into the previously unknown (to European society) New World which was in the way. Columbus never set foot on the continent proper, but that’s way beside the point.

But these names are also political, not just politically correct. Why not be known as a Cheyenne? Well, I’m sure Cheyenne people are, locally. But what if you’re a Maidu? Or Mewok? Or one of any hundreds of tribes that never had big names? No political clout. And “Indian” has no political clout either. That name represents a whole continent full of people who were lied cheated and genocided out of their land. A bad political track record. “Native American” on the other hand, is a constant reminder of who was here first, and what was done to them.

I guess the same applies with “African American.” You’re an American, and having that African bit in your background is a reminder of all the bad stuff that may have been done to your ancestors, depending where and when they’re from.

So, Mike and I wrote a lot of stuff! Among other things, I suppose one thing it boils down to is: Try not to label people by their color or previous nationality. Treat people like people.

I like john’s posts when I read them, but normally they are far too long. The one above my post here is very long, and I don’t care enough to read a thesis paper on racism in unicycling.

Shut up, fart-knocker.

racism in unicycling=>political correctness
I love people

You saved a bunch of time, because that post basically had nothing to do with unicycling! :slight_smile:

Sorry about the long posts. I really wish I could cure myself.

you’re fine man. I just normally skip anything that is longer than one page.

I hope it’s fairly obvious that I agree. However, the phenomenon of racism (whether hostile or simply patronising) is one that deserves discussion and analysis. We all have preconceptions that need to be brought into the open, discussed and challenged - including me.

As I have posted elsewhere, I have a family member who is a politically active racist (BNP) with some very strange preconception about his own supposed racial heritage.

Yeah, well, maybe. But he always wraps it up like a champion.

I love this quote

I’m the only mexican filipino chinese japanese portugese american in california that unicycles… it kinda sucks

If you think the U.S. is a melting pot, try going to Brazil. It’s not uncommon to find someone from a Spanish-Indigenous heritage marrying someone with German-African heritage. In the United States, people tend to mingle with “their kind.”
But my other point is, words are just words. What is in a label? Whether Black or African American or N**ger is the correct term, they are all simply a collection of sounds that we create with our mouths. It is the society we live in that gives these sounds a cultural significance.
So what am I saying? It doesn’t matter if the root is Latin, Greek, or Swahili; if African American is the term that at this moment has the cultural acceptance, then it’s the right term.

And ChangingLinks is also “black.”

preferred mode of transportation

this is random, but i saw itemno’s post about california unicycling and i thought it might be nice to know that unicycling is the preferred mode of transportation around campus at california tech.

I just like to call myself Human, as we all are…

I’m racist against humans. :angry:

well it sucks to be you then.

Yeah, cause I have to live as a human. :frowning:

Doesn’t that make you a humanist?

Sorry!!