a bit of digging found this lil’ gem
i was actually looking for Scott Kurland’s thread about ‘sorting out’ a guy in a pick-up truck who tried to run him off a b*ke path quite a while ago
i couldn’t find it
i did find some interesting snippets tho
next time a car tries to cut u off, two words
yes, you are right David. I am new-ish to the forums. I didnt know of the other many stupid things you have done. And yes, I did ASSume that in NYC( very large population it thought) that someone else might be watching a guy on a UNI ride down the street in the snow, since I would have a really hard time finding an empty street here in lil ol San Antonio to ride down. I guess I can and will agree that I AM THE ASS HERE!
On a lighter note, damn its good to see a thread that has people fired up. First time in weeks!
i don’t think that’s entirely fair
that woman sounds like she needed some serious help
yeah, but i suspect dave planned it all to divert attention from the State of the Nation thingy
didn’t want a recurrence of the pre-election political threads
Re: Uni assault on a car (literally)
Dave,
Were you riding across the intersection in the street, or were you in the crosswalk?
Although unis fall into a grey area when it comes to the laws of the road in NYC and most places, you would probably be judged to be riding illegally if you were riding the uni in the crosswalk. If you were crossing the intersection by riding in the street, abiding by the laws of cars/bikes, the whole situation would probably be more in your favor legally xspeaking.
My wife was struck by a car (many years ago) driven by this 82 year old geezer while she was riding her bike across an intersection. She was riding in the crosswalk. While the old fart had no business driving a car (he was practically blind), my wife had a big strike against her legally because she was in the crosswalk. As a result, we probably got less money out of the old bstrd.
Now, I think most of us New Yorkers tend to ride on the sidewalk instead of the street since riding in the street is suicidal.
However, this is reminding me of the additional exposure each intersection crossing poses in terms of safety and legality. Riding defensively, we should be prepared for these types events. We should expect them.
Dave, You know West End Avenue. People drive like bats out of hell and they turn onto side streets like loons. It’s very easy not to see a pedestrian, a biker or a unicyclist. My wife witnessed someone get killed by a car turning a corner on West End when she was a kid.
Crossing the intersections in NYC right now is especially tricky because of the ice, slush and water.
David, BE CAREFUL!!!
Joe
Unatics mofo, er… cofo that is.
More info (not an update)
Two replies to recent posts:
“That woman” was unbalanced (while I, as a unicyclist, was extremely balanced). As I’ve admitted, I shouldn’t have stopped to confront her (why bother/why risk?), but at that point it became clear that she had a screw loose and some missing nuts (oops – that could be misconstrued).
Hey, Joe. Thanks for your note. As to your Q:
I’d been riding on an empty sidewalk and was just beginning to enter the cross walk (as if I were a pedestrian). The driver prolly saw me and decided to try to race around the curve, cutting it really close. Legally speaking, I was in the grey zone since I was behaving like a pedestrian (but then, we know you got out of that ticket, so I think I’d have been ok).
In fact, this forum (and particular thread) would be part of my defense: A judge would have to see that uni’ists face special challenges, like the fact that it’s too dangerous to ride in the street. Basically I’d want a judge to see my point: That a responsible uni’ist can ride safely on the sidewalk (looking out for pedestrians) but can’t ride safely on the street (bc the cars make it too unsafe). Frankly, I don’t have a problem with bikes using sidewalks under certain conditions bc the Brooklyn streets are so dangerous for them (esp now with the snow and the dark, slippery streets).
I’m doing my best to stay safe, mostly.
David
Re: More info (not an update)
If you showed this thread to a judge, I think that would sew it up for the other guy. Though he may be liable for something because he either didn’t see or didn’t yield to you, you are the one admitting to bashing his car. I’d stay away from this “document” and claim you had to jump off to avoid being killed.
In response to some of the earlier posts, yes, I think many of us are wondering why the guy didn’t stop. As above, there are two possibilities of what the driver was thinking beforehand:
Assuming #1 is true: for driver not to stop implies he made a bad judgement in timing, and doesn’t want to get involved. Either thinks he hit something (making him a hit and run criminal), or that David hit him, making David a dangerous person, to be avoided. Maybe he reported you to the police later…
Assuming #2 is true: the driver may not have noticed something hitting the car (due to loud music, headphones, or otherwise being distracted). May have thought it was a bump or something. Or either of the possibilities above.
Assuming #3 is true: same as #1.
BTW, if you testify that it’s “too dangerous to ride in the street,” your judge might expect you to use the sidewalk in a safe and legal way, which might include slowing down.
I have ridden on busy streets in NYC (on a 24" with Larry Steele, of the World Wheelers, leading the way). I’d consider it a fun, challenging sport, but would not think it a safe thing to do day after day. When I rode up to your unicycle club meeting back in October, I used a mix of sidewalk and street, depending on the traffic volume and amount of parked cars on the side.
Re: More info (not an update)
Chicago has no bike riding on sidewalks. I believe it’s because of the number of doorways (to biz and homes) that enter/exit directly to sidewalks. There were probably too many lawsuits happening from peds geting whacked by a bike while leaving a store.
On a side note, I seem to know someone, or someone who knows someone, that gets hit by a car every year while riding the streets here.
I wish I had statistics …
Here … an article… March 2003
When I say stop, I mean stop!
Jim Nugent, Park Forest
What does it mean to stop? It’s getting harder to tell nowadays. In 1979, psychologists studying drivers’ behavior at stop signs noted that 37% came to a full stop, 34% made a rolling stop, and 29% didn’t stop at all. In 1996 3% came to a full stop, another 3% made a rolling stop, while the other 94% just kept on rolling.
In a car-bike accident study researchers looked at 3000 crashes in six states and found that 40% involved failure to yield the right of way at a sign or signal. Fault was about evenly divided between the cyclists and the auto drivers. The U.S. Department of Transportation similarly reports that 33% of bicycle deaths in 2001 occurred at intersections. Cutting car drivers more slack at signed or signaled intersections just might make your bicycle experience less surgical.
Cars that don’t yield or stop at intersections are responsible for about 25% of car-bike accidents. Even worse, in 60% of these cases police report the cyclist victim was going against traffic on the wrong side of the street.
A second 25% of car-bike accidents happen between intersections when cars and bikes are pulling onto the highway. The law says that all vehicles must come to a stop before entering a roadway, but it’s becoming increasingly common to see cars scoot out of gas stations, fast food joints, driveways, and parking lots at higher and higher speeds. About 2% of these mid-block accidents are caused by cars backing out; 7% are cars driving out mid-block without stopping; and 13% are caused by cyclists riding out of driveways without stopping. Of course, younger cyclists make up a good percentage of that last category. Safety education anyone? Drivers who cut into street traffic without stopping just don’t have the time to see wrong-way cyclists or sidewalk users.
Automobile drivers also like to roll around corners that allow right turns on red. What started out with “stop, look, and then proceed with caution” has turned into “speed up and race around the corner in order to beat some oncoming car.” About 4% of car-bike accidents occur when cars make a right turn on red. The blame isn’t all on the auto drivers though, four out five bicyclists in these collisions were riding on the wrong side of the road against traffic. In addition, half of the cyclists hit were crossing in marked crosswalks.
A few sensible safety steps can improve a cyclist’s chance of survival on the streets. The data suggest that riding in the streets with the flow of traffic lowers your risk of being hit by a motor vehicle.Riding a bicycle properly can be safer than driving. Use extra care at intersections and give cars an extra allowance of space just in case they run the signal or roll through the stop sign. If cars won’t stop, maybe cyclists should. And finally, maybe it’s time for increased education and enforcement of stops: at stop signs, as drivers enter roadways, and at lights where right turns are permitted on red.
Data for this article was gathered from:
Federal Highway Administration Pedestrian & Bicycle Safety Research, www.tfhrc.gov/safety/pedbike/pedbike.htm
Pedestrian and Bicycle Information Center, bicyclinginfo.org/bc/perspective.htm
I like dogs, couldn’t eat a whole one though, unless it was a puppy and I was really hungry.
So responsibility is proportional to WEIGHT of vehicle?
“in theory”?? In WHAT theory?
I find these numbers small … although any number is to big …
2002 to 2003 stats in Chicago only
These are FATAL only … so , accident numbers must be bigger …
Re: Re: More info (not an update)
The laws regarding riding on sidewalks is different in every city. In Seattle it is OK to ride on the sidewalks as long as long as you are being careful and prudent and keep the speed reasonable for the conditions.
Here’s a web page with the Seattle bicycling regulations.
Here’s the section regarding sidewalks:
That’s all very reasonable.
But then unicycles are also not considered bicycles in the Seattle Municipal Code:
So do the bicycle rules apply to unicycles? 
I like it that Seattle isn’t uptight about sidewalk riding. That makes it much easier to get around Seattle on a unicycle and actually have fun riding in the city.
Vanman was quoting Foss there, but actually, if a uni weighs 15 lbs and a car weighs 1500 lbs, then an impact will be, as Foss said, “at least” 100 times worse.
Don’t forget that kinetic energy is mass*velocity SQUARED. So if a car and uni collide head on, the speed of the car is a factor, too. In fact, you could easily suggest that your responsibility as a driver increases exponentially with your speed.
Moot in this case, since the car was cutting in front of me! But if I’d been going REALLY fast, I could have done a ton of damage to the car!
David
Hi David
Glad to see that you’re Ok.
The chances of you actually encountering that driver ever again are probebly next to zero. Any car on ony street in any borough in New York City could easily be from somewhere far, far away, just passing through.
In fact, I’ll bet that driver is sweating bullets right now–think about it–you’re driving along–suddenly, out of the corner of your eye, a unicyclist appears as you are making a turn and then you hear a CLUNK sound on your car. You freak out and split from the scene, wondering if you’ve injured (or worse, killed) someone.
That dent in the back of his car might be the least of his worries–he might be wondering if his carless driving has sent a unicyclist to the hospital. Let him sweat–it might make him more careful in the future.
This reminds me of the time when I was hit by a taxi on Park ave and 33rd street, about 22 years ago. I was thrown over the roof of the taxi and I landed on the divider and within seconds I was covered in blood. The taxi driver stopped, and he ran over to me, and he pulled out this sheet of paper that he wanted to sign. I couldn’t believe it–I was lying there all bashed in, dazed and bloody that guy wanted me to sign something absolving him of all responsibility. Thinking I was about to die, I gave him the finger, I said “F*ck You” and then I passed out–only to wake up in the hospital a few hours later.
Luckily, no broken bones, just a few stitches. I was damned lucky.
So drivers like that? Let them sweat. The guy who cut you off split from the scene after making contact with your unicycle–that’s irresponsible to the highest degree for any driver.
Anyway, what’s important is that you were not hurt. If you ever do make contact with this guy, send him the bill for a new pedal!
Steve (Sophie’s Dad – we sometimes come to the New York Unicycle Club)
This is an interesting thread, I think because it involves more than the one event that started it. As with many others here, I too had the original impulse to disapprove of the response to this incident, but realize that I too have felt the desire (although rarely) to respond in a similar fashion.
This led me to ask myself what it is that causes use to desire to “get even” under such circumstances. Why can one person find themselves in the same situation, jump off their uni and away from harms way, jump back on and continue without much thought in the way of anger toward the driver.
All (or at least the vast majority) of us will agree that the safest thing to do in this case is to swallow your pride (if its even a pride issue) and just simply deal with it. We all know that when you saddle up on a unicycle in busy traffic the risk is increased. I may view risk differently than some, but when a person looks at a risky situation and decides to do it anyway, he/she acknowledges that there is a real possibility of danger, and when that danger is encountered, it can be dealt with on the basis that it was somehow already expected (you did already acknowledge its possibility right?). In this case, you deal with the situation as best you can, and move on with your risky sport with a bit more experience and awareness to the possibilities involved.
Viewing the situation from this perspective takes into account the possibility of there being stupid dangerous drivers on the road, and calculating that into the risk ahead of time. The beauty of this perspective is that it leaves out any anger toward the offender ( and by no means am i justifying his neglect or hazardous driving).
The truth is that there will always be stupid people driving progressively larger and safer (for the driver) vehicles This we cannot change. Nor can we change the habits of drivers on their way to work. The driver in this story may in fact have been freaked out, thinking that he injured someone (although the likelihood is poor with the availability of 3 mirrors pointing in the rearward direction on most cars) but we can’t count on this incident to make the person a better driver. He likely let out a sigh of relief, and then became angry when realizing his car had been damaged. Two weeks later the same driver will once again be late for work; eating, shaving, or talking on his cell phone showing just as much neglect to those sharing the road. And what did this unicyclist’s reaction occomplish? Well it effectively put him in debt to someone who wields a much bigger weapon.
We cannot count on others to watch out for our safety, that ended years ago somewhere in elementary school. Nor is it worth it (for many reasons) to let these things fire up our emotions and get us worked up. They will happen, and continue to happen no matter how angry or how much revenge we get in each situation. The best thing to do IMO is to find some method of not taking it so personally and simply adding the close call to our experience bank in an educational (not bitterness embedded) way.
Hope this long post didn’t waste anyone’s time, or hurt anyone’s feelings. Above is simply the ramblings of someone intrigued with the story.
Keep riding safely, and realize that just because it was his fault, doesn’t mean it couldn’t possibly have been avoided altogether with a little more vigilance.
-Jeremy
Re: Uni assault on a car (literally)
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 06:49:01 -0600, “GILD” wrote:
>i was actually looking for Scott Kurland’s thread about ‘sorting out’ a
>guy in a pick-up truck who tried to run him off a b*ke path quite a
>while ago
>i couldn’t find it
It’s here:
<http://www.unicyclist.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24716>
It’s impossible to get old when you ride a unicycle - John (what’s in a name) Childs
Uni Assault on Car, Redux
Ya know, it happened again, but this time I eased up a bit.
I was riding past abig public garage on a busy avenue where traffic drives quickly by in both directions. The driver was going right and wanted to rush to the light, and it never occurred to her that there might be anyone on the sidewalk. She looked ONLY to her left, then drove to the right and out of the garage, and had I not been aware of this potential death trap, I’d have ridden right into her car. When I slowed down and looked at the driver, she made a face like I was some lunatic. In fact, the building she was exiting is a new one with loads of families just moving in this past month. It was quite conceivable that some cute kid on a scooter could have been riding down the block and could have been crushed under her wheels.
I fought the impulse to smash her car with my pedals, tho mainly because they’re medal and because in this case, I wanted to tell her to be more careful. When she started to drive off, I attempted to get her attention by rapping her car with my wrist guard – real hard. She drove off, so I guess I was unable to make my point (tho I may have made another dent).
I’m getting better at controling the urge to damage cars. Next time I’ll resort to … pepper spray?*
David
“tho mainly because they’re medal and because in this case”
Are they made out of, like, medals you’ve won from different contests?
…
Okay, sorry, continue with thread…
-Ryan
PS (Metal and medal are different words)
Medal / metal. What a muddle. At least I didn’t spell it ‘mettle’ or ‘meddle.’
Ouch. And I’m a school teacher. Just goes to show what you can do on too little sleep and too much unicycling!
David
No spelling police, PLEASE! 