This Saturday, 2nd February, 29 years since the death of Sid Vicious.
Thoughts on mortality: had he lived, he would now be 50 years old.
Drug addicted murderer? Mentally ill victim of appallingly bad parenting (his mother bought the fix that killed him)? Icon and idol?
This Sunday, 3rd February, 49 years since the death of Buddy Holly.
Thoughts on mortality: had he lived, he would now be 71.
Nobody cares about Sid Vicious. He was as much of a musical influence as Donald Duck’s pants.
I agree. He wasn’t even a musician, so’s anyone would notice. But punk rock was never just about the music.
You were born after he died, but you know who he was and you have an opinion on him. He must have had some influence.
Doesn’t music immortalize one in some ways?
Not only has his music outlasted him, so has his image… surely, you’ve heard Weezer’s famous song.
I wouldn’t say Buddy’s completely dead… just mostly dead.
Well, if he wasn’t nailed to his perch, he’d be pushing up daisies…
The Crickets influenced The Beatles (hence the insect-related names) and Buddy Holly’s visual image was, er… borrowed heavily… by Freddie (and the dreamers, not Kruger or Mercury) and Elvis Costello.
As the anniversary approaches, the real life Peggy Sue is locked in a legal battle with Holly’s widow. Two old women who each only knew the man for a few months half a century ago, arguing over who has the right to make money from the fact. Nice.
Joey Ramone. OK, his d-day is in April. But Joey trumps them all.
Aw, Joey, why’d ya hafta go.
Mick Shrimpton: As long as there’s, you know, sex and drugs, I can do without the rock and roll.
The Day the Music Died… sigh, you forgot about Richie Valens & The Big Bopper 
I didn’t forget about them. Their deaths are just as sad. But I don’t put them in the same league as Holly in terms of musical influence and importance, or in the same league as Sid in terms of being iconic. I guessed most people in this forum could say little or nothing about the Big Bopper or Ritchie Valens. Most people would know a little bit about Buddy Holly and Sid.
I am not so sure. I may be a unit of data rather than a statistic, but La Bamba has always been one of the immoveables from my MP3 player. Can there be many who have not heard his version of it? I know a fair bit of the Buddy Holly music, but would not specifically seek it out. And I could not honestly hum the tune or quote any lyric from a Sid Vicious song. But I admit to not being one to whom music is very important.
Influence: well I am not much of a musical historian, but do wonder what Valens might have done had he managed a few more years. He didn’t really get much time to be any sort of influence. I didn’t live through punk rock, but don’t think that I would have been in decibel range of that band wagon if I had.
Big Bopper…I have heard his name, no more than that.
Nao
I know more about JP Richardson, but probably only because he was a radio presenter turned singer.
The ‘Big Bopper’ nickname came with him from his radio show.
I suspect the release of the Lou Diamond Phillips movie ‘La Bamba’ may have had something to do with skewing public perception slightly in Valence’s favour, but I have no doubt that Holly stands out as the iconic one of the three.
(1) Neither could he. Sid was an appallingly bad musician. So much so that the band often turned his amplifier of or down to 0. He was potentially a good singer, within a very narrow range. As far as I know, he wrote nothing except a (possibly fake) suicide note, and he performed nothing novel except swearing a bit more than the original writers of his songs intended. According to legend, when Sid asked Lemmy for lessons, he said, “I can’t really play the bass,” and Lemmy just said, “I know,” and walked away.
But Sid wasn’t about the music. Frankly, the guy was a deeply unpleasant violent little runt, a drug addict, a murderer, a caricature of his stage persona, and everything your mother warned you about. But his legacy was that he was an icon at a time when punk meant something more than a fashion choice genre of music. (This was a period of a few months only.) Modern celebrity junky idiots like Pete Doherty, Amy Winehouse, Britney Spears and so on are just wannabes. The proof is they’re still alive. 
(2) I have nothing against Ritchie Valens, but it takes more than a successful double A side single and a passive role in a plane crash to make a legend. There were hundreds of singers from that time who had one hit or one nearly hit, or a couple of almost nearly hits. There is no reason to think Valens would have gone on to be an all time great, any more than there was to think he would not. Who could have seen Cliff Richard performing Move It in 1959 and predicted the course of his career?
(3) Big Bopper, J P Richardson, seems to have been a decent chap, and a competent singer and good performer, but little more than a novelty act, and unlikely to have become a legend. You may have heard:
“Chantilly lace, and a pretty face and a pony tail, hanging down, a wiggle when you walk, and a giggle when you talk, makes the world go round round round, there ain’t nothing in the world like a big eyed girl to make you act real funny make you spend your money, make you feel real loose, like a long necked goose, I like a girl, oh baby, that’s what I like.”
I think that gives a flavour of the longevity of his contribution to popular culture. 
And finally, Buddy Holly. In a short but productive career, he produced enough material to fill a 6 album boxed set. He knew and worked with Eddy Cochran (another great innovator and song writer who died young). He wrote many of his own songs. He played guitar well. He toured the world. He brought the first Fender Stratocaster guitar to Britain.
He could play rock and roll in a three piece band, or play with orchestral string arrangements. The Rolling Stones, Beatles and Bob Dylan have all paid tribute to him. His visual image was copied by several performers, including Elvis Costello. After Holly’s death, the demand for the distinctive Buddy Holly sound remained so strong that Bobby Vee made a healthy living for a while singing with Holly’s band and attempting to copy Holly’s vocal style slavishly.
Anyway, it’s sad they all died prematurely. Even Sid, who had a hard life. His own mother, a drug dealer by trade, bought him the fix that killed him, after he had detoxified in prison and lowered his tolerance for drugs.
Don’t feel badly. That is because neither is present.
Not true. The lyrics of the songs he sang are present; say what you like about the melody and his vocal abilities.
He recorded a version of My Way, as well as Cochran’s C’mon Everybody, and Something Else. Although Sid deserves no credit for the lyrics, they were good lyrics.
My apologies. I meant merely that he was incoherent. Certainly the lyrics to the songs existed and could qualitatively be said to be good.
I made a point of listening to the recent compilation album, “Too Fast to Live” album today. (I’ll listen to some Buddy Holly tomorrow.)
It is very repetitive, because he only did a tiny number of songs, and the album contains several “takes” of each. However, the best versions he does of the two Cochran songs are not that bad. They are more aggressive than Cochran’s originals, of course, but performed moderately well, and you can hear the words.
It is deeply ironic that this anarchist/nihilist social outcast’s best performance was of “Something Else” which is perhaps the most “aspirational” goody two shoes song in all of rock and roll. See the lyrics below.
Much of the rest of the album is musically awful. But it is important not to forget the context. Punk is now a comfortable fashion choice for bored middle class kids. In 1976/7 it still had the power to shock. The barbarians were at the gates. “God Save the Queen” was banned on the radio (it was the Queen’s jubilee year!) and the album cover with the word “Bollocks” on it caused major ructions in the press when it went on display in shop windows. Spiked hair, chains, leather and studs frightened old ladies. Now some old ladies have them.
On the positive side, the “rip it up and start it again” ethos of punk cleared the decks, and gave a lot of people an opportunity to perform, and live their dreams for a while. It gave rock and roll back to the kids for a short and glorious few months before punk became just another marketing tool for the music industry.
The most aspirational song in rock and roll. I’ve copied and pasted them from a Google search, and I’m not sure they’re 100% accurate:
Something Else
a look a-there, here she comes
there comes that girl again
wanted to date her since I don’t know when
but she don’t notice me when I pass
she goes with all the guys from outa my class
but that can’t stop me from a-thinkin’ to myself
she’s sure fine lookin’ man, she’s something else
hey, look a-there, across the street
there’s a car made just for me
to own that car would be a luxury
but my dollar can’t afford the gas
a brand new convertible is outa my class
but that can’t stop me from athinkin’ to myself
that car’s fine lookin’ man, it’s something else
hey, look ahere, just wait and see
worked hard and saved my dough
I’ll buy that car that I been wanting so
get me that girl and we’ll go ridin’ around
we’ll look real sharp with the flight top down
I keep right on a-dreamin’ and a-thinkin’ to myself
when it all comes true man, wow, that’s something else
look a-there, what’s all this
never thought I’d do this before
but here I am a-knockin’ on her door
my car’s out front and it’s all mine
just a forty-one ford, not a fifty-nine
I got that girl an’ I’m a-thinkin’ to myself
she’s sure fine lookin’ man, wow, she’s something else
I remember wanting to quote and +1 this comment when you first made it.
I found this thread again today (while looking for the Favourite Covers thread) and thought 'rather late than never’.
MikeFule: Hypergraphic unicyclist? Sociopolitical commentator with a cult following? Sage? I love reducing people to pithy phrases.
I might suggest your phrase “stage persona” doesn’t apply, because Syd was authentic on and off stage. he didnt’ care what people thought.
billy
MikeFule: Hypergraphic unicyclist? Sociopolitical commentator with a cult following? Sage? I love reducing people to pithy phrases.
I might suggest your phrase “stage persona” doesn’t apply, because Syd was authentic on and off stage. he didnt’ care what people thought.
billy